EU and AstraZeneca

[Eeyore]

they pre-ordered supply. that is not the same as "investing" under normal sense, vaccine was already developed and in phase III trials by time they put in the orders. some of any upfront payments (unknown) would have gone to establishing the production process, so can be called investment if you squint at it.

Yes, I've been trying to find out what it actually meant.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I have no doubt that AstraZeneca are doing what they can. What I am saying is that if the UK rollout of the vaccine got cut by 60% at 5 days notice, our plans would be f***ed through no fault of our own and I would expect our Government to exert pressure to try and get the numbers back up

AstraZeneca have said what they believe they were contractually obliged to and the EU have said they want to publish the contract. You know as well as I that we won't ever know what was in any of these contracts, (unless of course [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] publishes the UK 'cast iron contract' that he's party to).

As I said in my very first post, the EU signing 12 weeks after the UK was a f*** up, but this f*** up has scaled up massively due to the cut in vaccine volumes (whatever the reasons) and is an International disaster for the fight against Covid..

Yes, but again you are not seeing the causation between the 3 month delay and the recent production problems. Pascal Soriot has said they could not make a firm commitment to the EU because of the very real possibility of a failure to produce the required volumes. This failure was caused by the 3 month delay.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A vaccine is vaccine. It saves lives. No life is worth more than the other.

I thought we'd stopped using the language of Airfix patriotism, but The Sun is alive and well.

A lot of the entries in this thread have been a good read on both sides of the arguement.

Others are just like someone taking a big dump in the middle of the thread.

Baker shite is on ignore. Soon he'll make a mistake like the other clown, Mouldy Brains did recently, and I'll not have to read people digging him out ever again. I do wonder why self-confessed uneducated and ignorant people feel the need to share their pathetic opinions on a football board, though. Perhaps it is all an elaborate joke by a cunning liberal, designed to make people with vile views appear foolish. We may never know.

 

[Chicken Run]

Baker shite is on ignore. Soon he'll make a mistake like the other clown, Mouldy Brains did recently, and I'll not have to read people digging him out ever again. I do wonder why self-confessed uneducated and ignorant people feel the need to share their pathetic opinions on a football board, though. Perhaps it is all an elaborate joke by a cunning liberal, designed to make people with vile views appear foolish. We may never know.

There are a few ignorant educated people on this board that in equally measured doses seem happy to also share the opinions on this football board.

Oh and a cunning liberal, now I know you’re taking the piss!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yes, but again you are not seeing the causation between the 3 month delay and the recent production problems. Pascal Soriot has said they could not make a firm commitment to the EU because of the very real possibility of a failure to produce the required volumes. This failure was caused by the 3 month delay.

In my very first post I highlighted the delay as a problem. I also said that this 3 month delay was known by both parties before the production schedule was committed to.

The EU, unsurprisingly, are saying this is not the complete reason for the delay, whilst AstraZeneca are saying it was.

COVID-19 vaccine: EU Commission and AstraZeneca fail to resolve supply row despite crisis talks

After the crunch talks, European Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides took to Twitter on Wednesday evening to express "regret" that there was "continued lack of clarity on the delivery schedule and request a clear plan from AstraZeneca for the fast delivery of the quantity of vaccines that we reserved".

Earlier, Kyriakides said the EU had provided investment in return for a "binding commitment" to produce vaccines prior to regulatory approval."Not being able to ensure manufacturing capacity is against the letter and the spirit of our agreement," she told a news conference on Wednesday afternoon.

The EU is willing to publish its contract with AstraZeneca if the company agrees, said Euronews Brussels correspondent Shona Murray, quoting an EU source.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-boss-hits-back-at-eu-criticism-over-supply-delays

And here's quite a bit more detail on the current situation, including where the various factories are and their capacities

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-astrazeneca-in-breach-of-its-eu-contract/a-56360480

Unfortunately, the more you look into it, the more complex the issues are and the longer they will take to resolve. Not good for anyone

 

[WATFORD zero]

Baker shite is on ignore. Soon he'll make a mistake like the other clown, Mouldy Brains did recently, and I'll not have to read people digging him out ever again. I do wonder why self-confessed uneducated and ignorant people feel the need to share their pathetic opinions on a football board, though. Perhaps it is all an elaborate joke by a cunning liberal, designed to make people with vile views appear foolish. We may never know.

Just to keep you up to date, Mouldy Brains is back after his 'branding of jews' got him a three day ban. Makes you wonder what you would have to say to get a full month

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Yes you have said what AstraZeneca are saying. The EU, unsurprisingly, are saying something completely different

COVID-19 vaccine: EU Commission and AstraZeneca fail to resolve supply row despite crisis talks

After the crunch talks, European Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides took to Twitter on Wednesday evening to express "regret" that there was "continued lack of clarity on the delivery schedule and request a clear plan from AstraZeneca for the fast delivery of the quantity of vaccines that we reserved".

Earlier, Kyriakides said the EU had provided investment in return for a "binding commitment" to produce vaccines prior to regulatory approval."Not being able to ensure manufacturing capacity is against the letter and the spirit of our agreement," she told a news conference on Wednesday afternoon.

The EU is willing to publish its contract with AstraZeneca if the company agrees, said Euronews Brussels correspondent Shona Murray, quoting an EU source.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-boss-hits-back-at-eu-criticism-over-supply-delays

And here's quite a bit more detail on the current situation, including where the various factories are and their capacities

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-astrazeneca-in-breach-of-its-eu-contract/a-56360480

Unfortunately, the more you look into it, the more complex the issues are and the longer they will take to resolve. Not good for anyone

And so who to believe....

The pharmaceutical giant (making and supplying the vaccine at cost) or the EU, who have clearly F**ked up and can see the natives revolting.

And as I said before, I'd rather we were still in the EU.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Call me naive but since Greece, Spain and Portulal defenestrated their dictatorships, all poliicians in the EU are elected. It is the commisioners who are appointed, and they are not politicians (the clue is in the name)

I'll call that out seeing as I made the original comment.

They are politicians in all but name. The whole system is arse about face and will end in tears, as it is at the moment

 

[WATFORD zero]

And so who to believe....

The pharmaceutical giant (making and supplying the vaccine at cost) or the EU, who have clearly F**ked up and can see the natives revolting.

And as I said before, I'd rather we were still in the EU.

I tend to find that in large complex organisations and negotiations and the associated politics (because there's always politics) it's very hard to pin down who's the 'goody' and who's the 'baddy'.

To be fair, it's quite rare that you can pin down whether with an individual is a goody or baddy

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

In my very first post I highlighted the delay as a problem. I also said that this 3 month delay was known by both parties before the production schedule was committed to.

The EU, unsurprisingly, are saying this is not the complete reason for the delay, whilst AstraZeneca are saying it was.

COVID-19 vaccine: EU Commission and AstraZeneca fail to resolve supply row despite crisis talks

After the crunch talks, European Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides took to Twitter on Wednesday evening to express "regret" that there was "continued lack of clarity on the delivery schedule and request a clear plan from AstraZeneca for the fast delivery of the quantity of vaccines that we reserved".

Earlier, Kyriakides said the EU had provided investment in return for a "binding commitment" to produce vaccines prior to regulatory approval."Not being able to ensure manufacturing capacity is against the letter and the spirit of our agreement," she told a news conference on Wednesday afternoon.

The EU is willing to publish its contract with AstraZeneca if the company agrees, said Euronews Brussels correspondent Shona Murray, quoting an EU source.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-boss-hits-back-at-eu-criticism-over-supply-delays

And here's quite a bit more detail on the current situation, including where the various factories are and their capacities

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-astrazeneca-in-breach-of-its-eu-contract/a-56360480

Unfortunately, the more you look into it, the more complex the issues are and the longer they will take to resolve. Not good for anyone

Interesting, thank you. I note that the source for the EU’s apparent willingness to publish the contracts is anonymous. There isn’t a lot else that is concrete, but an awful lot of bluster. I think the onus is now on the EU to publish the contract if they want to persist in their criticisms of AZ. Just a view but it all does seem like a smokescreen to shift blame elsewhere and also an attempt to influence public opinion and inflame nationalist opinion against the UK and the Oxford vaccine. I think that is certainly what would be claimed were the shoe on the other foot.

 

[beorhthelm]

for anyone interested, the Curevac agreement is available, and its likely the same as for AZ. page 4 states

The participating Member States acknowledge that, in light of the uncertainties both with respect to
the development of the Product and the accelerated establishment of sufficient manufacturing
capacities, the delivery dates set out in this APA are the contractor's current best estimates only and
subject to change. Due to possible delays in the authorisation, production and release of the Product,
no Product or only reduced volumes of the Product may be available at the estimated delivery dates
set out in this APA. In the case of delays to the anticipated availability of the Product, the contractor
aims to allocate the doses of the Product fairly across the demand of doses, which the contractor has
or will contractually commit to towards its present and future customers, as such doses become
available.

and Page 10

the contractor commits to use reasonable best efforts (i) to obtain EU marketing
authorisation for the Product and (ii) to establish sufficient manufacturing capacities to enable the
manufacturing and supply of the contractually agreed volumes of the Product

and that matches the AZ CEO comment the contract says "best efforts". it would be odd for AZ to agree a firm timeline when they know there are unknowns.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'll call that out seeing as I made the original comment.

They are politicians in all but name. The whole system is arse about face and will end in tears, as it is at the moment

You won, get over it :

You're even finding out what you won day by day, just be happy with the positives

 

[WATFORD zero]

Interesting, thank you. I note that the source for the EU’s apparent willingness to publish the contracts is anonymous. There isn’t a lot else that is concrete, but an awful lot of bluster. I think the onus is now on the EU to publish the contract if they want to persist in their criticisms of AZ. Just a view but it all does seem like a smokescreen to shift blame elsewhere and also an attempt to influence public opinion and inflame nationalist opinion against the UK and the Oxford vaccine. I think that is certainly what would be claimed were the shoe on the other foot.

You're welcome. I know this is probably going to stun you, but I don't agree with a lot of that. I think the EU have far bigger fish to fry and their focus will be to get vaccines rolled out as quick as possible to make up for lost time.

But we'll have to agree to disagree

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

for anyone interested, the Curevac agreement is available, and its likely the same as for AZ. page 4 states


and Page 10


and that matches the AZ CEO comment the contract says "best efforts". it would be odd for AZ to agree a firm timeline when they know there are unknowns.

"In the case of delays to the anticipated availability of the Product, the contractor

aims to allocate the doses of the Product fairly across the demand of doses, which the contractor has

or will contractually commit to towards its present and future customers, as such doses become

available."


^---- Is this why the EU want to take doses intended for the UK ?

"aims" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

 

[Chicken Run]

Just to keep you up to date, Mouldy Brains is back after his 'branding of jews' got him a three day ban. Makes you wonder what you would have to say to get a full month

I totally agree, only the other the day someone suggested to another poster that they would normally be found hanging out the rear end of the 83 yo mother, this was only days after the same poster suggested to the same poster that his wife had somewhat been abused by a Nigerian, however I am clearly shit stirring and will now refrain!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Uncle C]

The simple fact is that we made the decision to go alone on the vaccine whilst we were under the jurisdiction of the EU, so Brexit had no effect whatsoever.

We have of course left the EU for over a year and were free to make all the trade deals we wanted during the transition period, specifically to avoid some of the situations we now find ourselves in. (But stay on topic).

I would market those blinkers. They are very effective.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You're welcome. I know this is probably going to stun you, but I don't agree with a lot of that. I think the EU have far bigger fish to fry and their focus will be to get vaccines rolled out as quick as possible to make up for lost time.

But we'll have to agree to disagree

Your constant defence of the EU regardless of the mounting evidence this is / was their error and just a deflection on their behalf is not unsurprising from you.

 

[beorhthelm]

"In the case of delays to the anticipated availability of the Product, the contractor

aims to allocate the doses of the Product fairly across the demand of doses, which the contractor has

or will contractually commit to towards its present and future customers, as such doses become

available."


^---- Is this why the EU want to take doses intended for the UK ?

"aims" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

possibly, though that would also cover all the other countries expecting delivery. they may already be accounting for this in the allocation to the EU.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Your constant defence of the EU regardless of the mounting evidence this is / was their error and just a deflection on their behalf is not unsurprising from you.

Watford EDIT will say black is white if it gets a reaction.

Attention shortage.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

This is a polite request for everyone to avoid personal attacks and wild generalizations about views with which they disagree. Both sides have been guilty of it. Let’s get back to discussing this developing story without the other stuff getting in the way.