England fans great ambassadors....

[Brixtaan]

The Germans should thank their lucky stars that this is the only reminder of the war they have to endure in these days of surviving veterans who still remember.
Brazen piss-taking loutishness on these occasions from the English is something to be proud of.It wouldn't happen here and thats the astounding beauty of it all.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

good stuff lads keep it up

you're what's wrong with this country.

 

[London Irish]

BUT the way the ordinary england fan behaves is appalling. fans wandering around in WW2 replica helmets, throwing plastic spitfires, songs about bomber harris, songs about the war in general and other anti-german and anti-turkish songs (as we got many turks living here). also hitler salutes were shown, the german OB decided not to arrest those idiots, cos they didnt want to let the situation escalate.

Agreed - it's a shame that even a minority of them find this braindead, juvenile Stan Boardman stuff funny - it would be like Indian and Pakistani fans turning up the test matches in England with hilarious symbols of colonial massacres, people in this country including the press would go absolutely apeshit.

Congratulations for having the courage to speak out about this boorish behaviour - because it was inevitable you would get attacked on here for not having a sense of humour/not getting things in perspective/being a PC brigade bore (delete as appropriate). But all power to you

 

[Starry]

I read your post or part of it to Paddy and he laughed like a loon. Your version of events about the official party and sponsors is a total elaboration btw. Either that or my husband is lying to me in a big ole way!

Also, Paddy said it's not binge drinking they drink like this all the time!

 

[Tom Bombadil]

see, thats the difference, we see it as a football match, the beautiful game, with all the banter, 3 world cups, 5:1, wembley's last stand, 1966 etc
and you see it as a substitute for war.

Pull the other one. I'm sympathetic to a lot of what you've written but that is just wishful thinking.

 

[Gully]

I was discussing the WC with a colleague at work today and the attitude of the Scots towards England, particularly their support for anyone who plays against us. This lass told me that her husband, who is Northern Irish, is mad about the England team and even has ringtones on his mobile phone with English tunes. We discussed how if the Welsh, Scots or either of the Irish teams were in the World Cup how we would, as English people, want to see them do well. Yet for some reason the Scots find it in themselves to hate us, and from personal experience of living in Scotland, they are not joking.

If I was to come out with a load of bile about Pakistanis then I would quite rightly be branded a racist and face the full force of the law and the consequences. If however a Scot comes out with the same level of abuse towards the English it is tolerated, in fact it seems an accepted part of their national psyche.

As for England fans abusing the Germans because of a war that happened 60 years ago, that was our grandparents generation, not ours. Get over it, it is history, haven't we moved on a little since then?

 

[GermanShepherd]

Pull the other one. I'm sympathetic to a lot of what you've written but that is just wishful thinking.

i was referring to brighton2win as he/she obviously sees history, wars etc in a match of football.

sorry if that didnt come across well

 

[Caravan Club]

German Shepherd

I cannot be bothered to read all the pages on this thread, but just to let you know, we are staying here in Germany in a very remote holiday park in Frankenau. Everything has been peaceful here and having attended both games so far, we have found the German people to be extremely welcoming and the England fans to be well behaved if a little 'boisterous'. We were somewhat disappointed to be woken up this morning by a load of louts who had smashed our plastic patio furniture. They were not new arrivals from England, but unfortunately a group of Germans who had clearly been 'binge drinking' - as you put it.

I think you need to see the situation from both sides, both countries have their unpleasant elements.


Kevin Jones in Sunny Germany.

 

[Hannibal smith]

In Frankfurt there were approx. 70,000 English fans. In 2 days I saw no WWII helmets and 1 inflatable spitfire. Lets keep this in perspective.

The only 2 posts in this thread worth reading are this and Caravan Clubs.

Those who have attended the World Cup or other recent major championships know that whilst there is the odd twatish behaviour, its not (a) Confined to the English and is (b) the exception rather than the rule.

 

[GermanShepherd]

I think you need to see the situation from both sides, both countries have their unpleasant elements.

hi, would never doubt that, we got ar$eholes too, no question.

if you read my posts, you will understand my position and what pissed me off.

anyway, have a great time in germany and a good world cup

 

[Hunting 784561]

Having read the opening article from the German paper again, it seems the gutter press in both countries have been doing their best to try and stoke things up.

The Sun has been running it's usual kraut bashing articles, even at one point trying to undermine the (very sensible) poicy of having british and german poice officers working alongside each other, while Bild Zeitung (the German equivalant) has run articles on Beckham and his 'Fat Peasant' family.

I'm just pleased that, so far, there has been no serious trouble, apart of course in our own country, where in-bred boneheads managed to get the big screens closed down in the cities.

 

[Gully]

The Sun will always resort to the lowest common denominator, as will its German equivalent Bild, it is what the readers expect, appreciate and understand. My experience of Germany is wholly positive, I have made German friends in the past and count them amongst some of the most decent people I have ever met. During the last World Cup I was living in the Netherlands just a couple of miles from the border with Germany, I didn't see any trouble whatsoever from either sets of fans, in fact the experience was a bit of a laugh.

During one of our games we were watching the game in one bar, a group of Germans were also watching in a bar nearby. When we scored our second goal one of them had printed some words out with his computer, which he proudly stuck up in the window. The message read "Final the in you see", everyone pissed themselves with laughter and a load of them then joined us for a few sherberts. That was my abiding experience of the World Cup in 2002, just a laugh, which is exactly what 99% of fans want, pity about the one-percenters!

 

[Turkey]

The general atmosphere out here is wicked. A number of England fans have said to me how good the germans are. Theyre great hosts. They take the piss out of themselves. They played "Who do you think you are kidding jurgen klinsman" and theyre happy to see the helmets etc, they let them into the fan fest arreas and they search everyone so they dont mind. One england fan in Nuremberg the other day started to do the hitler salute and 3 england fans were onto him within seconds telling him to stop being a twat. Seriously the germans are great, the english a re great. The argies, portugese etc are all a laugh. Its wicked.

 

[Turkey]

Re: Re: England fans great ambassadors....

Agreed - it's a shame that even a minority of them find this braindead, juvenile Stan Boardman stuff funny - it would be like Indian and Pakistani fans turning up the test matches in England with hilarious symbols of colonial massacres, people in this country including the press would go absolutely apeshit.

Congratulations for having the courage to speak out about this boorish behaviour - because it was inevitable you would get attacked on here for not having a sense of humour/not getting things in perspective/being a PC brigade bore (delete as appropriate). But all power to you

Slight problem. Ordinary england fans? Firstly those in helemts etc are a minority. Secondly, as part German and staying out here with german relatives I can tell you they have no problem with it. Its all done in good spirits, however hard that may be to comprehend back home.

 

[London Irish]

Re: Re: Re: England fans great ambassadors....

Slight problem. Ordinary england fans? Firstly those in helemts etc are a minority. Secondly, as part German and staying out here with german relatives I can tell you they have no problem with it. Its all done in good spirits, however hard that may be to comprehend back home.

Firstly, "a minority" - look at my post, that was exactly the word I used.

Secondly, I agree with you that helmets are at the low end of the scale of tasteless war references and, as such, many Germans will laugh it off, although some won't. The question it raises though is the "thin end of the wedge" one - does behaviour like this diffuse the war stuff as an issue as you seem to be implying, or does it create the kind of environment where after a few more lagers the pissheads feel emboldened to move on to the goosesteps and Nazi salutes. I don't know the answer to that question to be honest but it remains a concern for me.

On another tack, I disagree with the points that Gully makes implying that these issues of historical national rivalries are matters of racism, for example I would not say it is "racist" that most England fans want to see Germany defeated any more than most Scots want to see England defeated, it is banter and healthy rivalry when kept within the bounds of decent behaviour.

The issues that German Shepherd has sought to raise I don't think are about "racism", but are about taste, manners and respect. Old-fashioned concepts, perhaps, but I feel valid ones. It goes without saying that bad behaviour on this front can always (very wrongly) be justified by pointing to bad behaviour elsewhere.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

I used to live with a German girl. She had really big boobs and used to walk around in her underwear a lot. I used to enjoy looking at her. She was a nice girl if a little serious. Sometimes I kept her awake at night by watching tv too loudly. Sometimes she woke me up in the morning by going to work too noisily. Still, when she departed for Germany she hugged me to her bountiful breasts. I'd like to think that togethger we were able to bring our two countries that little closer.

Nothing really to do with the world cup and the behaviour of our fans, but this thread reminded me of her boobs, so I thought I'd share my German experiences with y'all.

 

[Beach Hut]

I blame the Germans as they invaded Poland - what do they expect otherwise ?

 

[Gully]

LI - perhaps I am over sensitive with the issue of Scotland hating the English, though I would add that I have visited maybe 40 countries around the World and Scotland is the only one where I have been subjected to any form of racist abuse. When it threatens physical violence and calls into doubt your ethnic origins and parentage I think it is going a little too far, I certainly didn't interpret it as friendly banter.

 

[gts big bruv]

The general atmosphere out here is wicked. A number of England fans have said to me how good the germans are. Theyre great hosts. They take the piss out of themselves. They played "Who do you think you are kidding jurgen klinsman" and theyre happy to see the helmets etc, they let them into the fan fest arreas and they search everyone so they dont mind. One england fan in Nuremberg the other day started to do the hitler salute and 3 england fans were onto him within seconds telling him to stop being a twat. Seriously the germans are great, the english a re great. The argies, portugese etc are all a laugh. Its wicked.

Agree with you turkey I was in Frankfurt last saturday and the only time it looked like getting silly was when teh fans jumped off the bridge into the water by the river .the police handled it very well and the situation did not escalate. Later on in the evening there was still loads of fans of differerent nationalities sitting in bars and chatting in our bar we had English , Aussies, Germans and swiss there was some banter and it was all good natured with lots of photos.
Nurenberg was the same quite a few Germans at the game but again i saw no trouble , some of my mates were in town because they had no tickets and they said the atmosphere was great with the English celabrating and the germans and others standing around taking pics with fans .No trouble at all even standing on the balcony at nurenburg a German took our photo for us .

 

[Caravan Club]

hi, would never doubt that, we got ar$eholes too, no question.

if you read my posts, you will understand my position and what pissed me off.

anyway, have a great time in germany and a good world cup

We are indeed having a wonderful world cup and a superb time. The sun has now come out again and peace has been made with our German neighbours. They were just drunk and boisterous. Thankfully they took their high spirits out on patio furniture rather than my English registered car.

Cheers

Kevin Jones
(Smith and Jones on Tour - look out for the flag)