England fans great ambassadors....

[Uncle Buck]

NO! That is precisely what I WASN'T saying! I said we have made vast, almost unbelievable attempts to eradicate hooliganism and you either haven't noticed and/or haven't realised the work that's been put in by the FA, the government,. the Police and the fans themselves. Instead all you can do is carp on about the admittedly boorish behaviour of some fans. An English expression is 'for you the glass is half empty', you won't acknowledge the positives.

You would have had a more positive response on here if the tone of your original post had been something like "Hey, really pleased about how well, comparatively speaking, the English fans are behaving, but I've still got a couple of little moans". Instead all you've done is point out what still offends you whilst ironically (your words) applauding the lack of violence in a patronising "not much violence, well done!" tone as if it were a minor achievment. It isn't.


... and the reason this thread is still going is twofold; firstly some of us didn't see it until yesterday (Monday) so it's new to us. Secondly not all the arguments have been examined yet. Expect it to rumble on for a few more days yet.

Exactly. Bearing in mind that post Euro 2000 the FA and authorities were starting at the lowest possible ebb the progress in the last 2 tournaments has been amazing with regards to the fans. German Shepherd go and talk to the Japanese organisers or the Portugese organisers, they were rather complementary of the masses of England fans that descended on their land. Yes we are rather loud and do drink too much, however there was no trouble. I see there was an incident in Cologne last night and about 14 people were arrested, but when you think that up to 70,000 England fans are expected in the city that is nothing, you get more arrests in Brighton on a Saturday night.

Also bearing in mind the only reason incident of trouble so far at this tournament happened in Dortmund when the hosts were playing, I would think sorting your own shop out should be the plan, maybe Germany should be kicked out of the tournament for failing to control their fans, after all that is what we were threatened with for years.

 

[GermanShepherd]

i never put in doubt that the behaviour concerning fighting etc vastly improved over the years.

i also NEVER suggested that england should be kicked out of the tournament.

i make no difference in passports, and if germans behave like cünts they are the same scum.

i said what i have seen in frankfurt, there were fans from all over the world, of course some went OTT, but a tiny minority.

with the england fans it was a different story, as many of them were louts and behaved as such.

to be honest, we expected the dutch to do that, but so far (touch wood) they are ok, friendly, funny, noisy but well behaved. so fair play to our western neighbours, and we got a much much bigger rivalry with holland than we've got with england.

obviously some cant or dont want to understand my postings

 

[Uncle Buck]

i never put in doubt that the behaviour concerning fighting etc vastly improved over the years.

i also NEVER suggested that england should be kicked out of the tournament.

i make no difference in passports, and if germans behave like cünts they are the same scum.

i said what i have seen in frankfurt, there were fans from all over the world, of course some went OTT, but a tiny minority.

with the england fans it was a different story, as many of them were louts and behaved as such.

to be honest, we expected the dutch to do that, but so far (touch wood) they are ok, friendly, funny, noisy but well behaved. so fair play to our western neighbours, and we got a much much bigger rivalry with holland than we've got with england.

obviously some cant or dont want to understand my postings

The trouble is you seem to want to have a pop at the English and slag the fans off. Yet even your own police force have generally been very complementary of the English, so not sure what your agenda is.

 

[GermanShepherd]

The trouble is you seem to want to have a pop at the English and slag the fans off. Yet even your own police force have generally been very complementary of the English, so not sure what your agenda is.

i am not having a pop at the english at all. said it before, i got very good english friends, some are almost family for me. i do voluntary work in england and spend my freetime there. why would i have a pop at england? why did i tell people in germany, that the described louts do not represent your country, and that i have met many proper footi fans over here? why did i tell them that the image many germans have (due to what they read in the press, see on TV...same over here btw) is not right?

 

[Hannibal smith]

i am not having a pop at the english at all.

Are you bollocks (and I'll quote your original post to prove it). You bang on like every English fan is Goose stepping, Doing Hitler salutes and wearing Spitfire hats. There is a minority of one on here who reckons this is the behaviour of the average English fan and that is you.

From what I've read from people who have actually been there and aren't regurgitating shite from a tabloid newspaper is that there has been very little of this (see Lokki's earlier post that he had seen ONE inflatable spitfire) and that of what there is, is now being self policied.

 

[Uncle Buck]

i am not having a pop at the english at all. said it before, i got very good english friends, some are almost family for me. i do voluntary work in england and spend my freetime there. why would i have a pop at england? why did i tell people in germany, that the described louts do not represent your country, and that i have met many proper footi fans over here? why did i tell them that the image many germans have (due to what they read in the press, see on TV...same over here btw) is not right?

But the press over here have relucantely been praising the behaviour of the fans, just like they have done for the last 2 tournaments.

A lot has been done to improve the image of English fans travelling abroad and although there is a long way to go, things are so much better than they were 6 years ago and yet you post things implying that we are wrecking Germany. Yet on the 2 trips I have been out there for, there has been no trouble and a really good atmosphere.

 

[Hannibal smith]

BUT the way the ordinary england fan behaves is appalling. fans wandering around in WW2 replica helmets, throwing plastic spitfires, songs about bomber harris, songs about the war in general and other anti-german and anti-turkish songs (as we got many turks living here). also hitler salutes were shown, the german OB decided not to arrest those idiots, cos they didnt want to let the situation escalate.
windows were smashed, a fountain at the paulskirche (which is used for christenings only) turned into a bath by england fans....

If that not having a go at 'the ordinary English fan' I don't know what is.

At least be consistent with your arguments.

 

[Brovion]

But the press over here have relucantely been praising the behaviour of the fans, just like they have done for the last 2 tournaments.

A lot has been done to improve the image of English fans travelling abroad and although there is a long way to go, things are so much better than they were 6 years ago and yet you post things implying that we are wrecking Germany. Yet on the 2 trips I have been out there for, there has been no trouble and a really good atmosphere.

I think you're going to have to leave it Piers, I think by refusing to acknowledge the situation he's just being wilfully provocative now.

Just enjoy the irony of being lectured on hooliganism by a Cardiff fan!

 

[GermanShepherd]

not everybody can read nowadays, eh?

i didnt say ALL england fans were behaving like c�nts, i said MANY

i repeat myself in saying that there are also MANY genuie footi fans out there who are great to have.

you got that, Hannibal?


Uncle Buck: of course the police praises the england fans, as there werent serious incidents (fighting, rioting) concerning your fellow fans. this post wasnt about hooligans and fighting, but about idiots who go over the top (that is not that they are fighting)


anyway, i dont think this discussion will take us any further, will be in bristol later on to watch the games in a pub, with fans, some on here say, i have a pop at....my english mates

 

[Uncle Buck]

I think you're going to have to leave it Piers, I think by refusing to acknowledge the situation he's just being wilfully provocative now.

Just enjoy the irony of being lectured on hooliganism by a Cardiff fan!

I guess so. Even more ironic bearing in mind the events in Dortmund last Wednesday.

Still I have thoroughly enjoyed the nights out we have had with random Germans in the trips I have had out there, but that is not what he wants to hear, or the fact that a group of us have been invited out to Munich for the Octoberfest by the same Germans who will put us up, but I guess it is because they like us louts!!!

 

[Uncle Buck]

not everybody can read nowadays, eh?

i didnt say ALL england fans were behaving like c�nts, i said MANY

i repeat myself in saying that there are also MANY genuie footi fans out there who are great to have.

you got that, Hannibal?


Uncle Buck: of course the police praises the england fans, as there werent serious incidents (fighting, rioting) concerning your fellow fans. this post wasnt about hooligans and fighting, but about idiots who go over the top (that is not that they are fighting)


anyway, i dont think this discussion will take us any further, will be in bristol later on to watch the games in a pub, with fans, some on here say, i have a pop at....my english mates

You are saying many of the English fans are behaving badly, that is rubbish. If that were the case why have so many been so complementary of the English fans.

I do not know what you are trying to prove, but I do suggest if you are going to be this anti English you go and do it on a Cardiff board or the like, as I am not sure what you are trying to achieve on here.

 

[Hannibal smith]

not everybody can read nowadays, eh?

i didnt say ALL england fans were behaving like c�nts, i said MANY

i repeat myself in saying that there are also MANY genuie footi fans out there who are great to have.

you got that, Hannibal?

But everyone else says that it is not MANY but a tiny MINORITY who are behaving like idiots.

Do I need to print the distinction between MANY and MINORITY for you or can you find a dictionary yourself? Then, you might understand why we are getting annoyed with you.

you got that?

 

[GermanShepherd]

Re: Re: England fans great ambassadors....

If that not having a go at 'the ordinary English fan' I don't know what is.

At least be consistent with your arguments.

i dont know why you cherry pick?

ordinary england fans in my book is a general footi fan, not a casual or hooligan. so i didnt expect those to fight etc.

but the behaviour of a big number of them is appalling.

sad really, they drag the "real" football supporters from england down

said it in my very first post, that i dont think its ALL of them, and that the proper supporters from your country dont like that sorta behaviour at all. also stated later by some of your fellow fans who have been at the world cup

 

[Barrel of Fun]

GS. You were waging a keyboard war on another forum along with the Irish contingents Soccertalkforums or something similar with anti English songs etc. The thread that got banned, I believe.

 

[GermanShepherd]

But everyone else says that it is not MANY but a tiny MINORITY who are behaving like idiots.

Do I need to print the distinction between MANY and MINORITY for you or can you find a dictionary yourself? Then, you might understand why we are getting annoyed with you.

you got that?

they are entitled to their opinion, for what i have seen it wasnt a tiny minority...


uncle buck: i said before how i see the whole thing, no need to repeat myself again. i am not anti-english or something u suggest

 

[Uncle Buck]

Re: Re: Re: England fans great ambassadors....

but the behaviour of a big number of them is appalling.

That has been complete rubbish, the behaviour by the majority has been very good, hence no major incidents.

What are you trying to prove?

 

[GermanShepherd]

GS. You were waging a keyboard war on another forum along with the Irish contingents Soccertalkforums or something similar with anti English songs etc. The thread that got banned, I believe.

first, i cant remember that. can u give me a hint about what that discussion was about? i remember saying political stuff or secterian songs have no place in football for me.

then, i speak up and dont close my eyes or shut my mouth about things i cannot stand. whether if its racism, politics or whatever.
i voice my opinion, and i stand up for it. thats the way i was brought up. that got me in trouble in the past, even at cardiff, believe it or not. at ipswich last season, some kn0bs started the "shipman song" (which is about killing english), and i told em to shut it. they started again and told me to "f*** off", so i told em what i think they are, and 3 of them (in burberry hats) wanted to have it with me

 

[Barrel of Fun]

first, i cant remember that. can u give me a hint about what that discussion was about? i remember saying political stuff or secterian songs have no place in football for me.

I was pointing out that it was a bit of banter. You were saying things about the English and some of the English were saying things about the Germans. I can't find it now as the board seems to have disappeared. Well it was crap!

I would not partake in singing two world wars etc. but that is a personal choice. Tarring 'most' fans by the behaviour of a few is wrong. It is not just this instance, but all over the world.

I went to Bratislava as my friend got some cheap flights and some of the locals we spoke to, were scared of England as a whole due to the fights there. In reality the English bobbies and the German OB, with work from the FA and Fifa should be applauded.

You said in the first post - sad really as they drag the real football fan down with them. That should not be the case, although it always will be. You will always hear about the songs and gallivanting in the fountains, rather than the majority of fans meeting the locals, checking out the cities. Bad news makes good news.

 

[GermanShepherd]

I was pointing out that it was a bit of banter. You were saying things about the English and some of the English were saying things about the Germans. I can't find it now as the board seems to have disappeared. Well it was crap!

I would not partake in singing two world wars etc. but that is a personal choice. Tarring 'most' fans by the behaviour of a few is wrong. It is not just this instance, but all over the world.

I went to Bratislava as my friend got some cheap flights and some of the locals we spoke to, were scared of England as a whole due to the fights there. In reality the English bobbies and the German OB, with work from the FA and Fifa should be applauded.

You said in the first post - sad really as they drag the real football fan down with them. That should not be the case, although it always will be. You will always hear about the songs and gallivanting in the fountains, rather than the majority of fans meeting the locals, checking out the cities. Bad news makes good news.

i agree with ur post.

 

[Uncle Buck]

i agree with ur post.

So why start a thread describing most of the England fans as a disgrace etc?