EDL in Sheffield

[Soulman]

The thread just keeps sucking me back in Seriously though I find the patriotism idea interesting. What is it all about? what does it mean to you?

of course I have been t Wales, I love Wales. I have been to parts of wales were you can't go in to certain pubs "not with that accent, they hate the English" nationalistic jingoism at work and it's bollocks. It would be daft to just hold my views of patriotism about English patriots, ridiculous even. Like I say I am very proud of many thing about being English, I am a passionate England supporter (I will watch as much of the Germany game as I can before I go to work). I just think that when you go over board with your passion based on a boundary things get confused. So many Patriots I have met will sing god save the queen with their hand on their hearts, then tell me that hate the Jocks and the taffs, the northern monkeys, it just doesn't make sense to me.

It seems that to be a patriot you have to hate everybody else, the French, the Germans, the Aussies. This is the part I can't be doing with as it is not about promoting pride in your own country it is about highlighting the differences and hating others.

Of course you do not have to hate everybody else to be a Patriot. I'm a Patriot, i also had a Scottish lodger for over a year, he was a Catholic, a Celtic supporter, and i'm a Protestant, so what, he was very patriotic as well, and was a bit tight with the rent.
I worked in South Wales for a few months, right in the middle of the Welsh Nationalists area near Camarthan. I became a regular in the local pub, one night i was sitting quietly in the corner when a few locals at the bar were chatting....... "Bloody English *******s" i heard "Oi Oi" i said...."Oh not you, your"e alright"...i just smiled.
In my work i reckon iv'e worked alongside nearly every nationality, after speaking to them iv'e realised that nearly all are patriotic, nothing wrong with that either.
I suppose i have got more patriotic in the last few years, mainly because this government and these right on liberals are trying to change the traditions and dumb down our patriotism. In fact these people keep using the racist etc card, much like yourself tbh BF, as if it is sinful to have a bit of pride in it's heritage, culture and traditions.
I believe that more people are becoming more patriotic because of the reasons iv'e just mentioned......so i am a Patriot, and all the best to other Patriots of other countries. This is also why i do not want England to have the same flag as all the other European countries.

 

[BadFish]

Of course you do not have to hate everybody else to be a Patriot. I'm a Patriot, i also had a Scottish lodger for over a year, he was a Catholic, a Celtic supporter, and i'm a Protestant, so what, he was very patriotic as well, and was a bit tight with the rent.
I worked in South Wales for a few months, right in the middle of the Welsh Nationalists area near Camarthan. I became a regular in the local pub, one night i was sitting quietly in the corner when a few locals at the bar were chatting....... "Bloody English *******s" i heard "Oi Oi" i said...."Oh not you, your"e alright"...i just smiled.
In my work i reckon iv'e worked alongside nearly every nationality, after speaking to them iv'e realised that nearly all are patriotic, nothing wrong with that either.
I suppose i have got more patriotic in the last few years, mainly because this government and these right on liberals are trying to change the traditions and dumb down our patriotism. In fact these people keep using the racist etc card, much like yourself tbh BF, as if it is sinful to have a bit of pride in it's heritage, culture and traditions.
I believe that more people are becoming more patriotic because of the reasons iv'e just mentioned......so i am a Patriot, and all the best to other Patriots of other countries. This is also why i do not want England to have the same flag as all the other European countries.

If someone comes across to as racist, I am going to pull them up on it. You are just going to have to live with that. I am not going to be politically correct about it, I am just going to tell you what I think. To be fair though racist isn't the right word but you certainly appear to me to be an Islamaphobe (or what ever they call it).

Anyway I have nothing but respect for your patriotism and agree with you entirely. The problem I have with it is that implicit within being proud of your country and thinking it is the best is that you think of other countries.

You will surely admit than many people who call themselves patriots tend to dislike and speak disparagingly and disrespectfully about their neighbors and rivals (bit like the Welsh nationals)?

Maybe not, maybe it is just my experience.

 

[Soulman]

You will surely admit than many people who call themselves patriots tend to dislike and speak disparagingly and disrespectfully about their neighbors and rivals (bit like the Welsh nationals)?

Maybe not, maybe it is just my experience.

Some can have the banter, with no malice, some can not.

 

[brighton fella]

If someone comes across to as racist, I am going to pull them up on it. You are just going to have to live with that. I am not going to be politically correct about it, I am just going to tell you what I think. To be fair though racist isn't the right word but you certainly appear to me to be an Islamaphobe (or what ever they call it).

Anyway I have nothing but respect for your patriotism and agree with you entirely. The problem I have with it is that implicit within being proud of your country and thinking it is the best is that you think of other countries.

You will surely admit than many people who call themselves patriots tend to dislike and speak disparagingly and disrespectfully about their neighbors and rivals (bit like the Welsh nationals)?

Maybe not, maybe it is just my experience.

people need to lighten up a little and stop getting so paranoid about it all, they need to learn what should be accepted and what shouldnt. they need to get a sense of humour so's to recognise the difference between banter and malice. to slate another mans nation is nothing other than good old fashioned banter because your not aiming anything personal at them in particular, but when you cross that boundry and bring up someones family or someones illness then it becomes personal & its no longer considered banter but sheer malice.

people need to wake up and forget about this annoying word racism for a change and replace it with a healthy sense of humour for once.
its because of such people who haven't got a sense of humour that we are deprived of great comedys such as "love thy neighbour" & "in sickness and in health" on our TV's !
anyone who says these shows weren't funny needs their heads tested, its banter at its highest.

 

[BadFish]

people need to lighten up a little and stop getting so paranoid about it all, they need to learn what should be accepted and what shouldnt. they need to get a sense of humour so's to recognise the difference between banter and malice. to slate another mans nation is nothing other than good old fashioned banter because your not aiming anything personal at them in particular, but when you cross that boundry and bring up someones family or someones illness then it becomes personal & its no longer considered banter but sheer malice.

people need to wake up and forget about this annoying word racism for a change and replace it with a healthy sense of humour for once.
its because of such people who haven't got a sense of humour that we are deprived of great comedys such as "love thy neighbour" & "in sickness and in health" on our TV's !
anyone who says these shows weren't funny needs their heads tested, its banter at its highest.

Banter is supposed to be funny. What is funny about telling two South Africans that you are glad they beat the Scots because you hate the Jocks?

Banter should be funny, laughing at national stereotypes isn't. I get grief for being a pom over here all the and it doesn't offend me in the slightest buy with some people the 'banter' is the only communication they can manage. Same with Brits who live over here and spend their whole time moaning about the Aussies. After a while it is just dull.

I suppose the difference really is that banter is something you do with your mates, something which you know the rules and the boundaries and what will offend and what won't. The trouble is that often people think that everybody else should live the the same norms and social rules as themselves. This is were it becomes a lack of respect and thought for anybody else.

It is all very well telling people that they should lighten up about stuff, that is is only a joke or a bit of banter but why the **** should they? Why should you be able to impose your values on someone else? If they find what you say offensive then they have the right to tell you so.

To me it is all about a lack of respect for others.

The funniest things about those show were that most often they highlighted racists as the simple minded morons they are.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

banter is supposed to be funny. What is funny about telling two south africans that you are glad they beat the scots because you hate the jocks?

Banter should be funny, laughing at national stereotypes isn't. I get grief for being a pom over here all the and it doesn't offend me in the slightest buy with some people the 'banter' is the only communication they can manage. Same with brits who live over here and spend their whole time moaning about the aussies. After a while it is just dull.

I suppose the difference really is that banter is something you do with your mates, something which you know the rules and the boundaries and what will offend and what won't. The trouble is that often people think that everybody else should live the the same norms and social rules as themselves. This is were it becomes a lack of respect and thought for anybody else.

It is all very well telling people that they should lighten up about stuff, that is is only a joke or a bit of banter but why the **** should they? Why should you be able to impose your values on someone else? If they find what you say offensive then they have the right to tell you so.

To me it is all about a lack of respect for others.

The funniest things about those show were that most often they highlighted racists as the simple minded morons they are.

yep ,all comedians have a lack of respect , seriously the laughs on you
regards
DR

 

[BadFish]

yep ,all comedians have a lack of respect , seriously the laughs on you
regards
DR

Where's your dunce hat?

 

[brighton fella]

Banter is supposed to be funny. What is funny about telling two South Africans that you are glad they beat the Scots because you hate the Jocks?

Banter should be funny, laughing at national stereotypes isn't. I get grief for being a pom over here all the and it doesn't offend me in the slightest buy with some people the 'banter' is the only communication they can manage. Same with Brits who live over here and spend their whole time moaning about the Aussies. After a while it is just dull.

I suppose the difference really is that banter is something you do with your mates, something which you know the rules and the boundaries and what will offend and what won't. The trouble is that often people think that everybody else should live the the same norms and social rules as themselves. This is were it becomes a lack of respect and thought for anybody else.

It is all very well telling people that they should lighten up about stuff, that is is only a joke or a bit of banter but why the **** should they? Why should you be able to impose your values on someone else? If they find what you say offensive then they have the right to tell you so.

To me it is all about a lack of respect for others.

The funniest things about those show were that most often they highlighted racists as the simple minded morons they are.

its simple if someone laughs at me I laugh at them in return, unless its being personal about someones family or someones illness then I draw a line.

I bet your a right bundle of laughs to be out with, everytime time someone cracks a joke they'd be looking around for your approval each time.. incase you class it offensive or not.
all this highly sensitive bollox has a lot to answer for, before it arrived life was running along just fine, now though we have social unrest and allsorts going on, frightened to speak your mind incase some fruitcake brands you a racist or finds it offensive.
what happened to all of them brilliant comedians years ago when they were free to say whatever they wanted without a care in the world of offending someone, the jews used to get big, the irish used to get it big..infact everyone used to get it big !! did the jews or irish or jamaicans mind??..did they **** because they had a sense of humour back then, did anyone realy mind? my mother was a jew and she would look forward to seeing them great comedians appear on the tv because she had a sense of humour and knew she was in for a laugh. learn to laugh at yourself and your be a much better person for it.
infact everyone accepted being laughed upon back then..even the pakis!! but this new breed today "especially muslims" find the whole thing offensive, so laws were changed to suit them. & now look at us? all frightened to speak our minds. that's fascism fella. until you know the true meaning of the word don't use it.

 

[Driver8]

It's like being in "Life on Mars" in this thread.

 

[stripeyshark]

If someone comes across to as racist, I am going to pull them up on it. You are just going to have to live with that. I am not going to be politically correct about it, I am just going to tell you what I think. To be fair though racist isn't the right word but you certainly appear to me to be an Islamaphobe (or what ever they call it).

Anyway I have nothing but respect for your patriotism and agree with you entirely. The problem I have with it is that implicit within being proud of your country and thinking it is the best is that you think of other countries.

You will surely admit than many people who call themselves patriots tend to dislike and speak disparagingly and disrespectfully about their neighbors and rivals (bit like the Welsh nationals)?

Maybe not, maybe it is just my experience.

So? It doesn't mean all patriots are like that. In fact, only a minority are.

 

[BadFish]

So? It doesn't mean all patriots are like that. In fact, only a minority are.

fair point i suppose, although their does seem to be a correlation in that those shouting loudest are more like that.

 

[BadFish]

its simple if someone laughs at me I laugh at them in return, unless its being personal about someones family or someones illness then I draw a line.

I bet your a right bundle of laughs to be out with, everytime time someone cracks a joke they'd be looking around for your approval each time.. incase you class it offensive or not.
all this highly sensitive bollox has a lot to answer for, before it arrived life was running along just fine, now though we have social unrest and allsorts going on, frightened to speak your mind incase some fruitcake brands you a racist or finds it offensive.
what happened to all of them brilliant comedians years ago when they were free to say whatever they wanted without a care in the world of offending someone, the jews used to get big, the irish used to get it big..infact everyone used to get it big !! did the jews or irish or jamaicans mind??..did they **** because they had a sense of humour back then, did anyone realy mind? my mother was a jew and she would look forward to seeing them great comedians appear on the tv because she had a sense of humour and knew she was in for a laugh. learn to laugh at yourself and your be a much better person for it.
infact everyone accepted being laughed upon back then..even the pakis!! but this new breed today "especially muslims" find the whole thing offensive, so laws were changed to suit them. & now look at us? all frightened to speak our minds. that's fascism fella. until you know the true meaning of the word don't use it.

I suspect on a night out with me you wouldn't be looking to see if I am offended or not (as I say I am not easily offended) you would more be watching my eyes glaze over from bordom or me checking the calendar to see if I had been transported back to the 70's.

Perhaps you could remind me of when it was that everyone was running along just tickity boo because my memory at school in the early 80's was of a group of 'pakis' being merciless picked on bullied and beaten up. Ironically they probably did accept it because it was all they ****ing knew. Then when i was a teenager my best mate invited me to go paki bashing with him, after and invite to go foreign student bashing and gay bashing our friendship came to an end (he joined the army like a good patriot).

There are still some great comedian out there who manage to be funny without making offensive jokes based on peoples nationalities (there are many other subjects for comedians to talk about).

What exactly do you mean now look at us? What does this refer to? I have absolutely no trouble with anyone from any country or race, I live opposite a Muslim, next to a Greek one side and a true blue Aussie the other... I get on with them all well. why? because I treat them with respect. You nearly got in a fight the other night for being disrespectful to a 'jock' and your response is to blame everybody else because they can't take your 'hilarious' 'banter'.

Frightened to speak our minds? I am not frightened to speak my mind, but then my mind is not full of shit jokes about outdated national stereotypes or hate and disrespect for entire nations based on nothing.

There is nothing fascist about engaging your brain before you speak to someone and treating everyone with a little respect. This doesn't inhibit you are yours enjoy your 'banter' and haviong a laugh you are welcome to it if that is what floats your boats. It just means that when you are on a train talking about how much you hate the Jocks you might find that one of them stands up and tells you what they think (after all he shouldn't be frightened to speak his mind should he).

But seriously can you remind me off this time when everyone was getting along so nicely because it was okay to take the piss out of minority groups?

 

[BadFish]

I suspect on a night out with me you wouldn't be looking to see if I am offended or not (as I say I am not easily offended) you would more be watching my eyes glaze over from bordom or me checking the calendar to see if I had been transported back to the 70's.

Perhaps you could remind me of when it was that everyone was running along just tickity boo because my memory at school in the early 80's was of a group of 'pakis' being merciless picked on bullied and beaten up. Ironically they probably did accept it because it was all they ****ing knew. Then when i was a teenager my best mate invited me to go paki bashing with him, after and invite to go foreign student bashing and gay bashing our friendship came to an end (he joined the army like a good patriot).

There are still some great comedian out there who manage to be funny without making offensive jokes based on peoples nationalities (there are many other subjects for comedians to talk about).

What exactly do you mean now look at us? What does this refer to? I have absolutely no trouble with anyone from any country or race, I live opposite a Muslim, next to a Greek one side and a true blue Aussie the other... I get on with them all well. why? because I treat them with respect. You nearly got in a fight the other night for being disrespectful to a 'jock' and your response is to blame everybody else because they can't take your 'hilarious' 'banter'.

Frightened to speak our minds? I am not frightened to speak my mind, but then my mind is not full of shit jokes about outdated national stereotypes or hate and disrespect for entire nations based on nothing.

There is nothing fascist about engaging your brain before you speak to someone and treating everyone with a little respect. This doesn't inhibit you are yours enjoy your 'banter' and haviong a laugh you are welcome to it if that is what floats your boats. It just means that when you are on a train talking about how much you hate the Jocks you might find that one of them stands up and tells you what they think (after all he shouldn't be frightened to speak his mind should he).

But seriously can you remind me off this time when everyone was getting along so nicely because it was okay to take the piss out of minority groups?

Here is a view of someone without your rose tinted spectacles, a few facts chucked in for good measure.

Between 1976 and 1981 there were 31 racist murders in Britain.

In the 1960s and early 70s there were many instances of racism in the unions — discrimination against black workers and even racist strikes.

The turning point was the Grunwick strike where a largely Asian women workforce struck — against an Anglo-Asian employer — to demand union recognition in 1976-7. The women were backed by mass mobilisations of building workers, miners and electricians who fought the police on mass pickets alongside the Grunwick workers.

By the mid-70s there were two million black and Asian people in Britain, in a general population of 57 million.

Police violence and malpractice against black people escalated. The political police, the Special Branch, kept a watch on black activists, leading to the Mangrove Nine trail in 1971. A black radical meeting place, the Mangrove in west London, was repeatedly raided, and following a demonstration nine leaders were arrested. The defendants were acquitted by a white jury, some of whose members later went out drinking with the defendants.

The 1976 Notting Hill Carnival was attacked by police.

The notorious “Sus” laws were used to systematically stop and search black youth. A major explosion of anger — rooted in racism and poverty — took place in the summer of 1981. Handsworth, Toxteth and Brixton erupted in rioting.

At a set-piece confrontation in Southall 3,000 riot police and mounted police attempted to protect a fascist meeting booked for Ealing Town Hall from 5,000 anti-Nazis. Three hundred and forty-two, mostly Asian, people were arrested and white anti-fascist Blair Peach was killed by the police.

Asian youth organisations were formed. In areas such as Southall, west London, these youth groups were capable of fighting and beating the fascists. On 3 July 1981 Asian youth fought the police and burned down a west London pub which was being used to hold a Nazi skinhead gig, and ran 300 fascists out of the area.

Police in Newham, east London, and in Bradford attempted to criminalise Asian youth in the 1980s for the “crime” of self-defence against racist attacks.

http://www.workersliberty.org/node/5912

Still I expect it woudn't have bee a problem if the sambos and the pakis knew their place and stopped complaining, eh? It's just a bit of banter lads, honestly some people have no sense of humour.

 

[Soulman]

Here is a view of someone without your rose tinted spectacles, a few facts chucked in for good measure.

Between 1976 and 1981 there were 31 racist murders in Britain.

In the 1960s and early 70s there were many instances of racism in the unions — discrimination against black workers and even racist strikes.

The turning point was the Grunwick strike where a largely Asian women workforce struck — against an Anglo-Asian employer — to demand union recognition in 1976-7. The women were backed by mass mobilisations of building workers, miners and electricians who fought the police on mass pickets alongside the Grunwick workers.

By the mid-70s there were two million black and Asian people in Britain, in a general population of 57 million.

Police violence and malpractice against black people escalated. The political police, the Special Branch, kept a watch on black activists, leading to the Mangrove Nine trail in 1971. A black radical meeting place, the Mangrove in west London, was repeatedly raided, and following a demonstration nine leaders were arrested. The defendants were acquitted by a white jury, some of whose members later went out drinking with the defendants.

The 1976 Notting Hill Carnival was attacked by police.

The notorious “Sus” laws were used to systematically stop and search black youth. A major explosion of anger — rooted in racism and poverty — took place in the summer of 1981. Handsworth, Toxteth and Brixton erupted in rioting.

At a set-piece confrontation in Southall 3,000 riot police and mounted police attempted to protect a fascist meeting booked for Ealing Town Hall from 5,000 anti-Nazis. Three hundred and forty-two, mostly Asian, people were arrested and white anti-fascist Blair Peach was killed by the police.

Asian youth organisations were formed. In areas such as Southall, west London, these youth groups were capable of fighting and beating the fascists. On 3 July 1981 Asian youth fought the police and burned down a west London pub which was being used to hold a Nazi skinhead gig, and ran 300 fascists out of the area.

Police in Newham, east London, and in Bradford attempted to criminalise Asian youth in the 1980s for the “crime” of self-defence against racist attacks.

http://www.workersliberty.org/node/5912

Still I expect it woudn't have bee a problem if the sambos and the pakis knew their place and stopped complaining, eh? It's just a bit of banter lads, honestly some people have no sense of humour.

Will read it later, most of us are watching England v Germany, it's what us patriots do

 

[BadFish]

Will read it later, most of us are watching England v Germany, it's what us patriots do

Not on over here, was watching Ukraine France, while I get ready for work.

Of course a good patriot would be concentrating on the game, not posting on here

 

[Soulman]

Not on over here, was watching Ukraine France, while I get ready for work.

Of course a good patriot would be concentrating on the game, not posting on here

Popped in at half time, which if you were watching or streaming or interested.....you would have known.

 

[Soulman]

Here is a view of someone without your rose tinted spectacles, a few facts chucked in for good measure.

Between 1976 and 1981 there were 31 racist murders in Britain.

In the 1960s and early 70s there were many instances of racism in the unions — discrimination against black workers and even racist strikes.

The turning point was the Grunwick strike where a largely Asian women workforce struck — against an Anglo-Asian employer — to demand union recognition in 1976-7. The women were backed by mass mobilisations of building workers, miners and electricians who fought the police on mass pickets alongside the Grunwick workers.

By the mid-70s there were two million black and Asian people in Britain, in a general population of 57 million.

Police violence and malpractice against black people escalated. The political police, the Special Branch, kept a watch on black activists, leading to the Mangrove Nine trail in 1971. A black radical meeting place, the Mangrove in west London, was repeatedly raided, and following a demonstration nine leaders were arrested. The defendants were acquitted by a white jury, some of whose members later went out drinking with the defendants.

The 1976 Notting Hill Carnival was attacked by police.

The notorious “Sus” laws were used to systematically stop and search black youth. A major explosion of anger — rooted in racism and poverty — took place in the summer of 1981. Handsworth, Toxteth and Brixton erupted in rioting.

At a set-piece confrontation in Southall 3,000 riot police and mounted police attempted to protect a fascist meeting booked for Ealing Town Hall from 5,000 anti-Nazis. Three hundred and forty-two, mostly Asian, people were arrested and white anti-fascist Blair Peach was killed by the police.

Asian youth organisations were formed. In areas such as Southall, west London, these youth groups were capable of fighting and beating the fascists. On 3 July 1981 Asian youth fought the police and burned down a west London pub which was being used to hold a Nazi skinhead gig, and ran 300 fascists out of the area.

Police in Newham, east London, and in Bradford attempted to criminalise Asian youth in the 1980s for the “crime” of self-defence against racist attacks.

http://www.workersliberty.org/node/5912

Still I expect it woudn't have bee a problem if the sambos and the pakis knew their place and stopped complaining, eh? It's just a bit of banter lads, honestly some people have no sense of humour.

Good points/observations from the last century. Now is what we are discussing, the title of the thread were not about 5 years ago, let alone in the 60's, 70's and 80's that you are quoting. How far are we to go back, the Crusaders next eh.

You quote in last post "watching my eyes glaze over from bordom or me checking the calendar to see if I had been transported back to the 70's.".....and that is partly the time you are talking about in your next post......priceless BF.

 

[BadFish]

Good points/observations from the last century. Now is what we are discussing, the title of the thread were not about 5 years ago, let alone in the 60's, 70's and 80's that you are quoting. How far are we to go back, the Crusaders next eh.

It was in reply to Brighton Fella talking about a golden age of all colours and creeds getting along nicely through 'banter' that binds us all. After 40 pages we have moved on a little from the thread title and yes it was what Brighton Fella and i were discussing. Do try to keep up

 

[Soulman]

It was in reply to Brighton Fella talking about a golden age of all colours and creeds getting along nicely through 'banter' that binds us all. After 40 pages we have moved on a little from the thread title and yes it was what Brighton Fella and i were discussing. Do try to keep up

Sorry was watching the footie. I hope England do better against your lot in the Ashes after tonight's performance.

 

[BadFish]

Sorry was watching the footie. I hope England do better against your lot in the Ashes after tonight's performance.

My lot!!! how very dare you.......I am offended!