EDL in Sheffield

[BadFish]

as i said hypocrites the lot of them , bit like some one from Australia questioning some one in the UK over their patriotism
regards
DR

Patirotism is bullshit and the world would be a far better place with out it. Religions draw their lines based on peoples interpretations of the word of god and patriotism draws its lines based on the geography of boundaries. Both set to highlight the differences between people based on superficiality rather than to highlight the similarities we share.

Gustave Herve calls patriotism "a superstition, one far more injurious, brutal and inhumane than religion".

From Ben Johnson..."Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

from Thoreau, "Patriotism is a maggot in their heads."

George Bernard Shaw has said..."You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race."

Oscar Wilde said "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."

Leo Tolstoy described patriotism as "the principle that will justify the training of wholesale murderers".

Like you say hypocrites, the lot of them (especially those patriots who instead of fighting fascism like their forgathers take it on as their user name and celebrate its ideals). Hypocrites indeed.

 

[BadFish]

No bad. I daresay we shall be going at it hammer and tongs the next time this type of subject rears it's head eh.

Indeed. We might even meet up on a thread were we agree oneday!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Patirotism is bullshit and the world would be a far better place with out it. Religions draw their lines based on peoples interpretations of the word of god and patriotism draws its lines based on the geography of boundaries. Both set to highlight the differences between people based on superficiality rather than to highlight the similarities we share.

Gustave Herve calls patriotism "a superstition, one far more injurious, brutal and inhumane than religion".

From Ben Johnson..."Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

from Thoreau, "Patriotism is a maggot in their heads."

George Bernard Shaw has said..."You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race."

Oscar Wilde said "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."

Leo Tolstoy described patriotism as "the principle that will justify the training of wholesale murderers".

Like you say hypocrites, the lot of them (especially those patriots who instead of fighting fascism like their forgathers take it on as their user name and celebrate its ideals). Hypocrites indeed.

where have i celebrated DAS REICH ,YOU KEEP ACCUSING ME OF THINGS BUT I'VE YET TO SEE YOU BACK THEM UP, IT'S NOT AS IF I'M DAS REICH 2ND SS PANZER DIVISION , another one jumping the gun
regards
DR

 

[BadFish]

where's my kiss
regards
DR

Here you go big boy!

[url=http://www.scrapsyard.com/kiss/animated-kiss-graphic/] [/URL]

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Here you go big boy!

[url=http://www.scrapsyard.com/kiss/animated-kiss-graphic/] [/URL]

ok, no need to over do it
regards
DR

 

[Soulman]

Patirotism is bullshit and the world would be a far better place with out it. Religions draw their lines based on peoples interpretations of the word of god and patriotism draws its lines based on the geography of boundaries. Both set to highlight the differences between people based on superficiality rather than to highlight the similarities we share.

Gustave Herve calls patriotism "a superstition, one far more injurious, brutal and inhumane than religion".

From Ben Johnson..."Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

from Thoreau, "Patriotism is a maggot in their heads."

George Bernard Shaw has said..."You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race."

Oscar Wilde said "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."

Leo Tolstoy described patriotism as "the principle that will justify the training of wholesale murderers".

Like you say hypocrites, the lot of them (especially those patriots who instead of fighting fascism like their forgathers take it on as their user name and celebrate its ideals). Hypocrites indeed.

You were joking with these names BF. Only one of these names was not born in the 1800's, and that was Ben Johnson who was so high on drugs whilst running the 100m, he would say anything.

 

[BadFish]

You were joking with these names BF. Only one of these names was not born in the 1800's, and that was Ben Johnson who was so high on drugs whilst running the 100m, he would say anything.

You are wrong if you live too far away and you are wrong if you lived too long ago. Distance and time do not make someone wrong old mate, no matter how much you wish it were true.

 

[Soulman]

You are wrong if you live too far away and you are wrong if you lived too long ago. Distance and time do not make someone wrong old mate, no matter how much you wish it were true.

Be fair, quotes from a druggie and people born about 150 years ago.......one of them an American. What would the American know about Patriotism then, his country was barely out of discovery.

 

[Soulman]

Anyway, i'm going to get under my COSG duvet, listen to Vera Lynn's There'll Always Be An England, and dream about this green and pleasant land.
Night.

 

[BadFish]

Be fair, quotes from a druggie and people born about 150 years ago.......one of them an American. What would the American know about Patriotism then, his country was barely out of discovery.

You are doing a good job of writing them off without actually addressing what they are saying.

Patirotism is bullshit and the world would be a far better place with out it. Religions draw their lines based on peoples interpretations of the word of god and patriotism draws its lines based on the geography of boundaries. Both set to highlight the differences between people based on superficiality rather than to highlight the similarities we share.

This bit is my opinion of patriotism would you care to respond to that or are you going to dodge it based on the fact that I live too far away, have blue eyes, were born in the wrong year, have taken illegal drugs, dared to move to another bit of the planet or some other superficial reason that makes my opinion invalid.

“When you resort to attacking the messenger and not the message, you have lost the debate.”

 

[brighton fella]

You are doing a good job of writing them off without actually addressing what they are saying.



This bit is my opinion of patriotism would you care to respond to that or are you going to dodge it based on the fact that I live too far away, have blue eyes, were born in the wrong year, have taken illegal drugs, dared to move to another bit of the planet or some other superficial reason that makes my opinion invalid.

“When you resort to attacking the messenger and not the message, you have lost the debate.”

its not your fault that you cant differentiate the difference between patriotism and racism..you think the 2 go hand in hand, its not a wonder with the type of left wing media we have thesedays.
ive just got back from the lee rigby walk in Woolwich, the mood was peacefull and somba, just how i'd imagine he would have liked it to have been. we gave him what he deserved.... a realy good show of support and reminding him that he was very well liked and well respected by all of us.

now tell me is that being fascist or racist..or is it being respectfull & patriotic. i'd realy like to know what you think?
or should we have just sat at home and gave the poor lad no time at all??

 

[BadFish]

its not your fault that you cant differentiate the difference between patriotism and racism..you think the 2 go hand in hand, its not a wonder with the type of left wing media we have thesedays.
ive just got back from the lee rigby walk in Woolwich, the mood was peacefull and somba, just how i'd imagine he would have liked it to have been. we gave him what he deserved.... a realy good show of support and reminding him that he was very well liked and well respected by all of us.

now tell me is that being fascist or racist..or is it being respectfull & patriotic. i'd realy like to know what you think?
or should we have just sat at home and gave the poor lad no time at all??

you think the 2 go hand in hand

No I don't.

now tell me is that being fascist or racist..or is it being respectfull & patriotic.

Of those four things it is probably none although it may have been done in a respectful manner.

Why did you choose to go and walk for this particular and specific soldier and not any of the others who have died protecting their country?

I am going to make the assumption that you went because of the people who killed him and they way he died. This to me has nothing to do with respect for him, more just using his death as a chance to make a point about your agenda.

I am genuinely glad that it went of peacefully and maybe you all have good intentions, but to be honest if it was me I wouldn't be happy at being made out to be some sort of martyr for the fight against Islam.

 

[brighton fella]

No I don't.



Of those four things it is probably none although it may have been done in a respectful manner.

Why did you choose to go and walk for this particular and specific soldier and not any of the others who have died protecting their country?

I am going to make the assumption that you went because of the people who killed him and they way he died. This to me has nothing to do with respect for him, more just using his death as a chance to make a point about your agenda.

I am genuinely glad that it went of peacefully and maybe you all have good intentions, but to be honest if it was me I wouldn't be happy at being made out to be some sort of martyr for the fight against Islam.

its not like that at all, a lot who went today had served in the forces at one time or the other and some had even served in lee's regiment. in mfe there are quite a few ex forces lads believe it or not
I had a surreal experience on the way home tonight, sitting alongside me on the train were these 3 white south African lads all with their SA rugby tops on, I got chatting with em and it turns out that they had just come from the Scotland SA game in scotland & whilst over here they were staying with friends in croydon, obviously exited by the fact that they had just beaten the jocks they were in a jovel mood, so I happened to say to them "good, im glad you stuffed them jocks I hate em" next thing after the south Africans had got off at their stop this bloke (unknown to me) sitting in a seat 2 rows infront of me and who had obviously been earwigging our conversations piped up saying that I was out of order for slating the Scottish and that he found the term jocks to be very offensive as he was Scottish himself. the spat became a tad heated as I wasn't in any state prepared to back down from my statement and told the bloke quite bluntly where to effin go. I thought at one moment it was going to be fisty cuffs when the fella walked up towards me, neither of us were backing down when suddenly another bloke (unknown to both of us) jumps up from behind and basically backs the jock, so I told him where to go aswell. anyway after a few unpleasant words the whole thing started to calm down a little and the argument became a debate instead of a full blown row. the funny thing about this was.. the 3 of us were sat together on a bus which had replaced the train because of track repairs all the way home and both the *******s turned out to be your lot.. stinking lefties, one even had a uaf t shirt on underneath his jacket. even some bird butted in halfway through the debate telling us to calm the swearing down. I said that's the trouble with you fu*king lefties everything fu*king offends you c*nts.

 

[BadFish]

its not like that at all, a lot who went today had served in the forces at one time or the other and some had even served in lee's regiment. in mfe there are quite a few ex forces lads believe it or not
I had a surreal experience on the way home tonight, sitting alongside me on the train were these 3 white south African lads all with their SA rugby tops on, I got chatting with em and it turns out that they had just come from the Scotland SA game in scotland & whilst over here they were staying with friends in croydon, obviously exited by the fact that they had just beaten the jocks they were in a jovel mood, so I happened to say to them "good, im glad you stuffed them jocks I hate em" next thing after the south Africans had got off at their stop this bloke (unknown to me) sitting in a seat 2 rows infront of me and who had obviously been earwigging our conversations piped up saying that I was out of order for slating the Scottish and that he found the term jocks to be very offensive as he was Scottish himself. the spat became a tad heated as I wasn't in any state prepared to back down from my statement and told the bloke quite bluntly where to effin go. I thought at one moment it was going to be fisty cuffs when the fella walked up towards me, neither of us were backing down when suddenly another bloke (unknown to both of us) jumps up from behind and basically backs the jock, so I told him where to go aswell. anyway after a few unpleasant words the whole thing started to calm down a little and the argument became a debate instead of a full blown row. the funny thing about this was.. the 3 of us were sat together on a bus which had replaced the train because of track repairs all the way home and both the *******s turned out to be your lot.. stinking lefties, one even had a uaf t shirt on underneath his jacket. even some bird butted in halfway through the debate telling us to calm the swearing down. I said that's the trouble with you fu*king lefties everything fu*king offends you c*nts.

Not sure what to make of this story really but I never have managed to get my head around the generalisations which seems to be the theme of it. It seems a superficial and lazy way of lumping a whole group of disparate people together to make a judgement on them (maybe this is linked to my not getting patriotism too).

Most of the Scots I have met have been fantastic people, I have also met a few twats and nauses from Scotland so I can't really judge them based on their Scottishness. On the other hand I can't really agree that the chap got so upset about you reffering to them as Jocks. Although apparently according to your stereotype I should be offended about this because my politics are to the left and 'my lot' are offended by everything. Actually I am not easily offended and I have not seen a link between someones politics and the level at which they are offended. I would also point out that you had used 'Jock' in an offensive manner but were surprised when they were offended, surely the gentlemanly thing to do in this situation would have been to apologise to him and get on with your life. As for the woman being offended by the swearing, well many people are as it is antisocial and aggressive by its very nature, so surely again the correct response would have been to apologise and kept your voice down a bit

To be honest it sounds like you were acting like a right yob and not really doing much to change the reputation of the groups you represented at the march.

Still at least the march was peaceful eh?

 

[Buzzer]

Just because a famous person comes up with a quotable bon mot It doesn't make an argument any more persuasive. You might as well quite the lines of a Cheeky Girls song for all its worth.

By the way, that quote about patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrel is from Dr SamuelJohnson and is completely out of context from a book he wrote attacking a specific kind of patriotism. Johnson was an extremely proud Englishman and regarded the English as the very pinnacle of civilisation. He was a very traditional Tory and is buried at Westminster Abbey with many other great British patriots.

Ben Jonson (that's how he spelled his name) who you are attributing the quote to was much earlier and also a patriot and a beneficiary of Royal patronage.

I'm a patriot. I love my country and its values. My girlfriend is a very proud Catalan patriot for precisely the same reasons. If you've got a problem with that then tough shit.

 

[BadFish]

Just because a famous person comes up with a quotable bon mot It doesn't make an argument any more persuasive. You might as well quite the lines of a Cheeky Girls song for all its worth.

By the way, that quote about patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrel is from Dr SamuelJohnson and is completely out of context from a book he wrote attacking a specific kind of patriotism. Johnson was an extremely proud Englishman and regarded the English as the very pinnacle of civilisation. He was a very traditional Tory and is buried at Westminster Abbey with many other great British patriots.

Ben Jonson (that's how he spelled his name) who you are attributing the quote to was much earlier and also a patriot and a beneficiary of Royal patronage.

I'm a patriot. I love my country and its values. My girlfriend is a very proud Catalan patriot for precisely the same reasons. If you've got a problem with that then tough shit.

Fair point about the quotes, just quoted them to illustrate my point. As you say they don't mean much. Funny how they are what people are responding to though.

You are a patriot, good for you. I think the world would be a better place without patriotism or nationalism for reasons already stated.

I too am proud of many aspects of British culture and history and proud to be associated with them and if there was the need to defend the country from invasion I would be back like a shot.

 

[Buzzer]

I just don't get the self-hating that afflicts the left-wing middle classes in this country. It seems to be uniquely English and paradoxically they can show great support for patriots in other countries. For instance, the Irish, Palestinians, Argentina...

I think in terms of extremism we British can rightly be proud of our tolerance in comparison to most other countries, even in Western Europe. I'm not saying we don't have a lot of problems nor that we have extremists such as the EDL but generally speaking it's not part of our psyche.

Thankfully, we can now have debates about race and immigration and the root causes of white working class resentment without being automatically labelled racists and that in turn can and will make the EDL redundant because they can't manipulate the frustrations and fears people have about losing their identity.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Fair point about the quotes, just quoted them to illustrate my point. As you say they don't mean much. Funny how they are what people are responding to though.

You are a patriot, good for you. I think the world would be a better place without patriotism or nationalism for reasons already stated.

I too am proud of many aspects of British culture and history and proud to be associated with them and if there was the need to defend the country from invasion I would be back like a shot.

to late it's already happened, DON'T YOU GET THE NEWS DOWN UNDER
regards
DR

 

[Soulman]

You are doing a good job of writing them off without actually addressing what they are saying.



This bit is my opinion of patriotism would you care to respond to that or are you going to dodge it based on the fact that I live too far away, have blue eyes, were born in the wrong year, have taken illegal drugs, dared to move to another bit of the planet or some other superficial reason that makes my opinion invalid.

“When you resort to attacking the messenger and not the message, you have lost the debate.”

Blimey BF, i thought you had quit this thread about 3 times now.
Anyway, i expect you have been to Wales, well most of the pubs, big buildings etc have the Welsh flag flying, in fact there are Welsh flags in abundance.
When the Welsh sing their anthem at Cardiff Arms Park, it is loud, proud and passionate. Patriots, do they incur the same feelings from you as you afford to the people that are Patriots of England, because i have no problem with their Patriotism.

 

[BadFish]

Blimey BF, i thought you had quit this thread about 3 times now.
Anyway, i expect you have been to Wales, well most of the pubs, big buildings etc have the Welsh flag flying, in fact there are Welsh flags in abundance.
When the Welsh sing their anthem at Cardiff Arms Park, it is loud, proud and passionate. Patriots, do they incur the same feelings from you as you afford to the people that are Patriots of England, because i have no problem with their Patriotism.

The thread just keeps sucking me back in Seriously though I find the patriotism idea interesting. What is it all about? what does it mean to you?

of course I have been t Wales, I love Wales. I have been to parts of wales were you can't go in to certain pubs "not with that accent, they hate the English" nationalistic jingoism at work and it's bollocks. It would be daft to just hold my views of patriotism about English patriots, ridiculous even. Like I say I am very proud of many thing about being English, I am a passionate England supporter (I will watch as much of the Germany game as I can before I go to work). I just think that when you go over board with your passion based on a boundary things get confused. So many Patriots I have met will sing god save the queen with their hand on their hearts, then tell me that hate the Jocks and the taffs, the northern monkeys, it just doesn't make sense to me.

It seems that to be a patriot you have to hate everybody else, the French, the Germans, the Aussies. This is the part I can't be doing with as it is not about promoting pride in your own country it is about highlighting the differences and hating others.