Gazwag
5 millionth post poster
I confused I thought students were protesting against fees or is it they are so bored rather than study they jump on any old bandwagon
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Demo in Brighton yesterday
- Thread starter Jimbo.GRFC
- Start date
I confused I thought students were protesting against fees or is it they are so bored rather than study they jump on any old bandwagon
fataddick
Well-known member
Saturday's protest was organised by an anti-cuts group and directed against tax avoiding corporations (primarily shops). Nothing to do with the student protests. Although, to be fair, all these protests are hopefully linked in some way or another, as I'd hate to think people were only interested it what concerns them directly (eg students only demo against college fees, council workers only demo against council job cuts, etc). We should all be standing side-by-side with EVERY other section of normal civilised society in EVERY anti-cuts demonstration. Only then will the military industrial complex be overthrown and the overlords and lickspittles of the social, ethical and economic failure that is Western capitalism be brought to justice. Amen to that, comrade.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Blimey. Could you be more condescending? Where I choose to shop is my business (excuse the pun) but I don't know anywhere that sells an iPod Touch or a new copy of Fifa 11 in the North Laines (and I'll keep calling it that - I've got friends who have lived in Brighton all their lives and use the incorrect plural form).
Point is that there was no hint from the demonstrators of where the demo would take place (last week it happened down in Church Street/Bond Street), there was no apparent large gathering before the demo and inevitably a Saturday in December in Western Road is going to be full of families. I can assure you that there was very little rubber-necking as the actions took place right amongst us. Did it disturb my day? Not particularly - other than one protestor nearly knocking my youngest son over. I never said that it did, did I? It was, though, ill-timed, not thought out, not enough done by the organisers to distance themselves from the more violent people and in my opinion completely counter-productive.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
*cringe*
I had some sympathy to start with but no longer. The violence that seems to happen at every one of these protests has turned me strongly against the cause. Also, if the demands of the students were slightly more reasonable I'd be more inclined to sympathise. It's very strange that students don't want to pay any fees ( i.e. help pay their way ) yet expect big business to do so ( putting aside the argument as to whether their tax "avoidance" is legal or moral ).
You clearly are a complete t*^"er.Obviously don't have children I take it
From what my wife has suggested, from other friends accounts and also from the statement the Head of Operations gave yesterday there was very little disruption. As most a little bit of argy bargy. I still maintain you're making a drama out of this demo. And if your kids were scared, may I suggest you wrap them up in even more cotton wool next time you take them outside.
Bollocks to that, there were some Palace fans on one of the marches.
The three largest areas of government spending are Health, Educashun and.............Defence.
I think the latter of those is ripe for defence, we should not delude ourselves that we are a major world military force, and pull of Afghanistan and Iraq. That would save billions. But since Mrs Thatch and Tony Blair made us the 51st state of the USA that option is no longer possible, as too busy being the Yank's Poodle.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,862
protesting against Topshop is utterly futile and anyone with a brain and half an understanding would know this. if Mrs Green gets £1billion tax free, it follows that Topshop has made alot more money and has already been taxed on this to the tune of 28%. Topshop itself has not avoided tax, so why protest against it?
if you object to Mrs Green's tax arragnments protest against her/Mr Green or the treasuary that allows the practice to continue. Each and every protestor there would happily use any means legally and relativly easily available to them to save their tax bill (assuming they have a job). Why should the owners of Topshop be different? will we be seeing a protest outside the clubs next weekend where doorman dont pay tax due to using an umbrella company? or maybe boycott all IT professions, plumbers, electrictians, etc who use shell companies to avoid paying full NI and claim lots of expenses to reduce the tax owed?
of course not. these protestors are just doing so for the sake of protesting, without much understanding of the issues.
if you object to Mrs Green's tax arragnments protest against her/Mr Green or the treasuary that allows the practice to continue. Each and every protestor there would happily use any means legally and relativly easily available to them to save their tax bill (assuming they have a job). Why should the owners of Topshop be different? will we be seeing a protest outside the clubs next weekend where doorman dont pay tax due to using an umbrella company? or maybe boycott all IT professions, plumbers, electrictians, etc who use shell companies to avoid paying full NI and claim lots of expenses to reduce the tax owed?
of course not. these protestors are just doing so for the sake of protesting, without much understanding of the issues.
The Spanish
Well-known member
if you stop me going on the piss all Thursday afternoon I will not be happy.
As for shutting down London, have you managed to design a snow machine like a studenty version of mad scientist Donald Sutherland in the Kate Bush video? That is the only guaranteed way of ensuring success. Even if it doesnt work very well and only produces miniscule amounts of snow.
Points with yoru post: Firstly not all the students were violent, a minority of "students" were, and the SWP have tried to incite violence in the younger students and used older "students" who are in education but aren't actually students in the way that they want to learn to get them to be violent.
Secondly: There are a wide range of views on what to do but the majority of students want to not have any raises in fees, but accept that it will be required because we're in a crisis still. They don't however, feel 9k a year is a fair raise. Nearly all students believe fees are wrong and were a mistake but accept that this is an arguement that has been and gone, and it is now the way this country does things.
Its a shame that the actions of the few are going to put many off the fight the majority of students are having but that is just something we have to contend with.
The fact a minority of people can put a lot of sympathisers off though... thats a bit off IMO. Not a personal dig but every large number has its goons, knobbers and *****. The Albion are no different... but its your call and we're going to have to work harder in making more inventive campaigns to intice people in to supporting us.
Was not Was
Loitering with intent
- Jul 31, 2003
- 1,600
The Spanish
Well-known member
Its just a slogan
phew. i had visions of the last days of saigon and choppers taking off from buckingham palace and parliament roofs with people dangling from the landing gear as the mob surrounds them.
Indeed the violence might only come from a minority but the issue is the response from student reps and often lecturers - many so called peaceful protesters appear to condone the violence by not explicitly condemning it. A good example was the lecturers after the first London protest. It makes it look like the majority quite like the minority of violent protesters as it brings some "publicity" ( I use that word guardedly ) to the campaign.
The other thing I object to is the twisting of facts - most fees will be £6k not the £9k that keeps being mentioned. Agreed some uni's will charge the £9k ( after fulfilling the criteria to allow them to do so ) but lets stop giving the impression that a majority of students will be paying the higher rate. Also the tax avoidance by Vodaphone - it keeps being stated as being between £6bn and £7bn yet even HMRC agreed that is considerably lower than that but let's not let facts get in the way of a good violent protest.
The key statement in your post is about making the campaign inventive - EXACTLY. That's how we got Falmer - not smashing up buildings. Given students are meant to be the intelligent part of society I would have thought inventive and humorous campaigns would be right up their street. Instead all we get is violent protest and calling the Tories a bunch of c**ts. Unfortunately until the students realise that all the NUS wants to be is a mouth piece for the more extreme left elements of the political spectrum then the campaign is never likely to be all that successful or well supported by the general public at large.
Gazwag
5 millionth post poster
Maybe he should concentrate more on his football
Prettyboyshaw
Well-known member
Lets protest against companies that pay millions in tax but may avoid paying a few more so they can actually make a profit god forbid, so that we don't have to cut the service's that support the majority of people that pay nil in tax and try and claim more benefits than they already get.
Well that clearly makes sense.
Well that clearly makes sense.