Congestion charge in Brighton & Hove

[cunning fergus]

You're making out that the people of Brighton & Hove won't have a say in this. Where did you get this little titbit from? As far as I can make out, it looks like we will.

Whether we're listened to is another matter, but we will get a say.

No I am not, see post 45.

 

[GNF on Tour]

Wow, I am sure I can recall Blair stating he would serve a full term, and its not like he's had to retire through ill health is it? Look at the fucker now..............he's almost as fit as Al Magrahi.

Brown did nothing to indicate he was not going to hold an election and it was not ruled out till things started to go wrong; which was not long as the impact of the 10p tax rate blew up 3 weeks after it was announced.

I must be on the same planet as Jack Straw, as he was orchestrating the election preparations and said only thios month in the New Statesman that we should have had an election.

What planet you on?

Everything you have just written is incorrect. Straw saying we should have had an election is totally different than saying at the time we would have had one.

I'm on Earth.

 

[Gwylan]

The last time a Prime Minister came into office 'mid-term' and called an immediate election was 1955.

The mid-term change has happened four times since then - twice under Labour, twice under the Conservative - and neither called an election.

[pedant alert] It's happened three times under the Tories: Eden resigned in favour of Macmillan (because of ill-health); Macmillan resigning in favour of Alec Douglas Home (who not only was not elected by the electorate, he wasn't elected by the Tories either - and he wasn't even an MP) and, of course, Major taking over from Thatcher.

But you're right that it's nonsense to draw attention to Gordon Brown's status: five of the last nine PMs have been 'unelected' - it's a perfectly normal state of affairs.

 

[The Large One]

Thanks for enlightening me with your insight it would appear that you understand only too well that we have a Gov't willing to ignore their own stated policies and the will of the people because they (and people like you) know better. So not nonsense after all.

This thread was about the congestion charge and the enforcement of a policy without consent of Brighton and Hove's electorate. I now know where you stand on the argument.

No I am not, see post 45.

Why did you bring that up (the boldened bit) when you're not in a position to say that's the case?

 

[cunning fergus]

Everything you have just written is incorrect. Straw saying we should have had an election is totally different than saying at the time we would have had one.

I'm on Earth.

You think?

Check the article below which states in Blairs own words: "If I'm elected I would serve a third term. I do not want to serve a fourth term. I don't think the British people want a prime minister to go on that long but I think it's sensible to make plain my intention now."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2004/oct/01/uk.labourconference2

There are many others and Reid and Milburn also indicated Blair was in for the full term.

As you are wrong on the first thing I said I'm not going to bother with the rest.

 

[cunning fergus]

Why did you bring that up (the boldened bit) when you're not in a position to say that's the case?

I can read. This post is called 'congestion charge in Brighton' a poster effectively indicated that a referendum in Manchester 'sucked' because people voted against a charge.

Maybe Carrot Cruncher is right after all there are evidently many of the electorate who are as thick as pigshit.

 

[The Large One]

I can read. This post is called 'congestion charge in Brighton' a poster effectively indicated that a referendum in Manchester 'sucked' because people voted against a charge.

Maybe Carrot Cruncher is right after all there are evidently many of the electorate who are as thick as pigshit.

That isn't what I asked.

I asked about 'the enforcement of a policy without consent of Brighton and Hove's electorate'

Who said it's going through without the electorate's consent?

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

C) have big and cheep enough park and ride systems in place from all directions. (The problem with this is placement, Withdean would be ok for the north but where do you have them east and west?)

Might the bus and coach park at Falmer be a suitable site during the week? Or will the club and City College (or whoever if they are no longer using the space) need the spaces all the time? You would then have a choice of the train or the bus service that goes to Brighton University. Another site that might be possible would be Toad's Hole Valley if the Cooke family could be persuaded to sell. Have a bus service that went down Nevill Road, Sackville Road, or somehow via Hove Station, then Church Road (to take in Hove Town Centre), Western Road and into the main shopping centre. If that's too long, straight via Dyke Road, Seven Dials, etc. Sorry, my knowledge of central Brighton and Hove might not be that great, so are my ideas practicable?

 

[GNF on Tour]

You think?

Check the article below which states in Blairs own words: "If I'm elected I would serve a third term. I do not want to serve a fourth term. I don't think the British people want a prime minister to go on that long but I think it's sensible to make plain my intention now."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2004/oct/01/uk.labourconference2

There are many others and Reid and Milburn also indicated Blair was in for the full term.

As you are wrong on the first thing I said I'm not going to bother with the rest.

....and then he changed his mind, and thats if the Guardian was correct ands thats no guarantee. For every Milburn and Reid saying this there will be a Harman and Prescott saying differently, who is right. Anyway, this all came about because you said Blair was knifed - and that is simply not the case mate.

You sound like your the sort of person that cannot admit to be being wrong or one of those people that beleives everything he reads. However, if you have a reasoned arguement that says I'm wrong on any other count, then please knock your socks off and go for it. I, unlike you will be happy to admit I could be flawed on one of my points.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

Might the bus and coach park at Falmer be a suitable site during the week? Or will the club and City College (or whoever if they are no longer using the space) need the spaces all the time? You would then have a choice of the train or the bus service that goes to Brighton University. Another site that might be possible would be Toad's Hole Valley if the Cooke family could be persuaded to sell. Have a bus service that went down Nevill Road, Sackville Road, or somehow via Hove Station, then Church Road (to take in Hove Town Centre), Western Road and into the main shopping centre. If that's too long, straight via Dyke Road, Seven Dials, etc. Sorry, my knowledge of central Brighton and Hove might not be that great, so are my ideas practicable?

Dyke Road is busy enough at peak times lots of families with young kids around here. The present transport structure is more than adequate.Blimey its £3.60 all day that's all day any bus. Park and ride didn't work it was empty every time I saw it. Why? Because it didn't pick up en route to central Brighton from Withdean. A bit like residents parking this council will do what they see fit to receive income income income, a bit like that lap land scam, get as much in as you can and bugger the consequences when it's in the bank its in the bank. Whatever us residents might say or vote against if the decision making cabinet want a congestion charge a congestion charge we will have.

 

[cunning fergus]

....and then he changed his mind, and thats if the Guardian was correct ands thats no guarantee. For every Milburn and Reid saying this there will be a Harman and Prescott saying differently, who is right. Anyway, this all came about because you said Blair was knifed - and that is simply not the case mate.

You sound like your the sort of person that cannot admit to be being wrong or one of those people that beleives everything he reads. However, if you have a reasoned arguement that says I'm wrong on any other count, then please knock your socks off and go for it. I, unlike you will be happy to admit I could be flawed on one of my points.

You think he wasn't knifed and I think he was, and that's the simple case.

If we're going to do some kitchen table psycho analysis I think you would be far from happy to admit you were ever flawed on one of your points.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

That isn't what I asked.

I asked about 'the enforcement of a policy without consent of Brighton and Hove's electorate'

Who said it's going through without the electorate's consent?

Of course it can. Don't be so ridiculous this council are not going to take any notice of the council tax paying residents of Brighton and Hove over this matter.

Anyone makes a big fuss it will be a case of Mears today gone tomorrow.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Park and ride didn't work it was empty every time I saw it. Why? Because it didn't pick up en route to central Brighton from Withdean.

You don't judge a park and ride bus service by whether the buses are full. You judge it by whether it runs frequently enough to keep the out of town car park busy. The Withdean service met that target very well. The buses might have carried more passengers per journey if they had run less frequently - but the parkers wouldn't have been happy with the wait and the service would have failed, because the parkers wouldn't use it more than once.

Because of the limited capacity at Withdean, the service needed subsidy. Get a decent sized car park (or three) and P&R will have the chance to take off. Every car parked at a park and ride site is one less vehicle cluttering up the city centre streets.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

You don't judge a park and ride bus service by whether the buses are full. You judge it by whether it runs frequently enough to keep the out of town car park busy. The Withdean service met that target very well. The buses might have carried more passengers per journey if they had run less frequently - but the parkers wouldn't have been happy with the wait and the service would have failed, because the parkers wouldn't use it more than once.

Because of the limited capacity at Withdean, the service needed subsidy. Get a decent sized car park (or three) and P&R will have the chance to take off. Every car parked at a park and ride site is one less vehicle cluttering up the city centre streets.

So why was it withdrawn?

 

[GNF on Tour]

You think he wasn't knifed and I think he was, and that's the simple case.

If we're going to do some kitchen table psycho analysis I think you would be far from happy to admit you were ever flawed on one of your points.

oh for fucks sake.......

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Whatever us residents might say or vote against if the decision making cabinet want a congestion charge a congestion charge we will have.

You haven't been paying attention this week have you?

The City Council's Cabinet (and the rest of the Tory Group) are dead AGAINST a congestion charge. Unfortunately for Ms Mears and her cronies, they were outvoted at the Council meeting by a combination of Greens, Labour and LibDems and the City Council have now adopted a masterplan that the Cabinet didn't want.

 

[clapham_gull]

london had the right idea by introuducing it without consultation ...

Not quite, we have the Mayoral Elections where congestion charging has always been at the top of the agenda.

Steven Norris (Tory Candidate) was against it in 2000 and lost out to Ken who went onto introduce his promise.

At the next election Ken said he would extend it as opposed to Norris who wanted to scrap it.

Norris lost again.

Boris wouldn't have dreamed of scrapping it and is currently putting pressure on the various London foreign embassies who think they don't need to pay.

( The US owes £3,446,520 in charges ! )

 

[Lord Bracknell]

So why was it withdrawn?

Because Ms Mears and Mr Theobald wanted to save money.

 

[clapham_gull]

It wasn't just a simple case of introducing a charge in London, there were many other measures to encourage people out of their cars.

For one the buses are very cheap in London and they are lots more of them now.

( Particularly useful this time of year to get into and away from the West End )

Buses are less likely to get stuck in traffic this days because of more bus lanes. The pavements in many areas have also been widened and the non bus lane path of the road narrowed.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

It wasn't just a simple case of introducing a charge in London, there were many other measures to encourage people out of their cars.

For one the buses are very cheap in London and they are lots more of them now.

( Particularly useful this time of year to get into and away from the West End )

Buses are less likely to get stuck in traffic this days because of more bus lanes. The pavements in many areas have also been widened and the non bus lane path of the road narrowed.

The other thing about central London is that car parking is not just expensive ... it's practically NON-EXISTENT. The fact that central Brighton is awash with public car parks might just make congestion charging a non-starter.