Cappelo to leave after Euro 2012

[tonymgc]

I really hope in this time an exciting young dynamic English manager comes to the forefront. Cos the current potential candidates can be described as ropey at best

 

[Man of Harveys]

I am thinking Italy, Holland, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain, France, Sweden...if that is right, you can't simply dismiss it as xenophobic, for one reason or another all these countries feel the national side will best be put together, coached and motivated by a compatriot if possible.

But is it an actual choice of theirs though, i.e. "we prefer to have a compatriot"? Personally I don't really see it that way: I do think some some countries like the ones you've lists just have a much higher number of coaches who have about them the required level of tactical awareness. They are, if you like, long the commodity of able international managers, hence the their ability to export them (in Germany's case to Greece, Switzerland etc).

Capello's appointment after Maclaren seemed to me to be a final acknowledgement that those resources simply don't exist in England to the level that's going to make the national side competitive. Not yet anyway: improved training of coaches and simply more of them at national level could work towards this of course.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

other countries 'choose' not to have foreign managers because they have loads of top level managers themselves....look at spain, aragones left after euro 2008 and who did they replace him with? champions league winner vicentre del bosque.........look at italy, a constant conveyor belt of top managers, even the netherlands, a smaller country than england can produce top coaches

IDEALLY i'd like an english manager, but as most english managers are GASH i'm happy to have a highly qualified foreigner

 

[Tooting Gull]

But is it an actual choice of theirs though, i.e. "we prefer to have a compatriot"? Personally I don't really see it that way: I do think some some countries like the ones you've lists just have a much higher number of coaches who have about them the required level of tactical awareness. They are, if you like, long the commodity of able international managers, hence the their ability to export them (in Germany's case to Greece, Switzerland etc).

Capello's appointment after Maclaren seemed to me to be a final acknowledgement that those resources simply don't exist in England to the level that's going to make the national side competitive. Not yet anyway: improved training of coaches and simply more of them at national level could work towards this of course.

Take your point totally, it may just be they are spoilt for choice (and that in itself is no accident, but takes years to set in place). I did make the point about getting the conveyor belt going later on. But even if for that reason, I think some of those countries would find it as hard as some of this country do if they hit a fallow period to go elsewhere for a coach.

 

[The Large One]

Can I just point out that since 1992/93, English managers with who have won domestic trophies...

Premier League 0
FA Cup 2 - Joe Royle, Harry Redknapp
League Cup 4 - Ron Atkinson, Roy Evans, Brian Little, Steve McLaren


The FA simply does not allow for the recruitment and training of high quality coaching and a large scale. Howard Wilkinson's Blueprint for the future of football tactics and training, foreseeing - among many things - the obsolescence of England's traditional playing formation was ignored by the FA. Who took it up and acted upon it with vigour?

The Germans.

 

[sten_super]

I would happily stand to be corrected on this, because I can't be bothered to check them all, but don't ALL the other better countries have and have always had (maybe always will) homegrown managers?

I am thinking Italy, Holland, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain, France, Sweden...if that is right, you can't simply dismiss it as xenophobic, for one reason or another all these countries feel the national side will best be put together, coached and motivated by a compatriot if possible.

I would actually agree that the FA have unnecessarily limited their 2012 options, you want the best man for the job. But I also think most people in this country would, given candidates of EQUAL ability (and no, they're not at the moment) want an Englishman in charge. At the very least we'd all like to see a conveyor belt of talented young English coaches in positions of responsibility and providing a decent shortlist, just like we'd all like to see a talented crop of young English players playing regularly in the top flight.

I'd agree with this completely. There are two issues. On one hand, the FA has been seriously remiss in its failure to line up a series of English coaches/managers to take the job. However, I think part of this is down to the fact that it seems not many people who want to be managers start out as coaches; instead it seems that the view is that you are either a coach or a manager, and not one with a view to becoming the other. As such, people would rather take a management job further down the pyramid than serve some kind of apprenticeship coaching at a big team and biding their time.

When the FA announced a few months ago that they wanted to appoint a new English coach to work with Capello, it was people like Peter Taylor who were mentioned, rather than any young up-and-coming coach or former player. There seems to be a serious dearth of people wanting to take these kinds of roles. I think Stuart Pearce only took the U21s job because nobody fancied him after the mess he made at Man City.

 

[Scotty Mac]

Can I just point out that since 1992/93, English managers with who have won domestic trophies...

Premier League 0
FA Cup 2 - Joe Royle, Harry Redknapp
League Cup 4 - Ron Atkinson, Roy Evans, Brian Little, Steve McLaren

Dutch League 1 - Steve McClaren

if you want to go on domestic success coupled with englishness, looks like that brolly might be back in the england dugout in 2012

 

[sten_super]

Dutch League 1 - Steve McClaren

if you want to go on domestic success coupled with englishness, looks like that brolly might be back in the england dugout in 2012

And not forgetting
Portuguese League 2 - Bobby Robson

 

[Gwylan]

Can I just point out that since 1992/93, English managers with who have won domestic trophies...

Premier League 0
FA Cup 2 - Joe Royle, Harry Redknapp
League Cup 4 - Ron Atkinson, Roy Evans, Brian Little, Steve McLaren


The FA simply does not allow for the recruitment and training of high quality coaching and a large scale. Howard Wilkinson's Blueprint for the future of football tactics and training, foreseeing - among many things - the obsolescence of England's traditional playing formation was ignored by the FA. Who took it up and acted upon it with vigour?

The Germans.

It's not just domestic competition. Surely an international coach should have experience of playing foreign teams and have some experience of playing Champions League football - who of the English candidates has such experience? And how many English managers have experience of other leagues? - we're back to Steve McClaren again.


It goes back a lot further. During the World Cup, there was much discussion about how many more qualified coaches Spain, Italy and Germany had. That's part of the same process.

I'd prefer an English manager of the national side, all things being equal, but they're not, so I'd rather have the best available.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I would happily stand to be corrected on this, because I can't be bothered to check them all, but don't ALL the other better countries have and have always had (maybe always will) homegrown managers?

I am thinking Italy, Holland, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain, France, Sweden...if that is right, you can't simply dismiss it as xenophobic, for one reason or another all these countries feel the national side will best be put together, coached and motivated by a compatriot if possible.

I would actually agree that the FA have unnecessarily limited their 2012 options, you want the best man for the job. But I also think most people in this country would, given candidates of EQUAL ability (and no, they're not at the moment) want an Englishman in charge. At the very least we'd all like to see a conveyor belt of talented young English coaches in positions of responsibility and providing a decent shortlist, just like we'd all like to see a talented crop of young English players playing regularly in the top flight.

Of course. In an ideal world yes, let's have an Englishmen but we're about a million miles away from living in a level football playing field aren't we?

Who is there? Redknapp, maybe; Martin O'Neil, perhaps, IF they were available. But overall the choice is very poor. No, you want the best person for the job and that may well be a foreign coach again.

All the countries you mention, aside from Sweden, have much better international records than us. They also have much better coaches so have no need to go down the foreign route. England, on the other hand, have the least amount of UEFA qualified coaches and a dismal competition record in comparison with the Dutch, French, Italians, Germans etc.

The reality is that until we start producing intelligent coaches England and English club sides will have to go on employing foreign managers. But the FA don't get this and have instead pandered to the ill informed nationalist drum banging of the Tabloid press.

 

[Scotty Mac]

if english managers were any good they would be coverted by the top european sides - all the best countries in the world have a plethora of managers working abroad, we dont have that because our managers are simply not good enough

it comes down to a basic choice - select a manager on the qualities he is going to bring to the job, in which case you rule out almost every englishman, or select it on nationality, in which case you rule out everyone of quality

i can totally understand why people want an english manager, but if thats what you want then you are going to have to accept that things are going to be worse than now. you can't have it both ways until the fa do something about improving the number of english coaches and the quality of them

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

i'm surprised that more english managers don't try and prove themselves abroad

roy hodgson clearly learnt shit loads abroad, it's clearly helped mcclaren rebuild his reputation and sir bobby was well respected wherever he went

working abroad can teach you a lot about different playing styles and things

 

[Easy 10]

i'm surprised that more english managers don't try and prove themselves abroad

roy hodgson clearly learnt shit loads abroad, it's clearly helped mcclaren rebuild his reputation and sir bobby was well respected wherever he went

working abroad can teach you a lot about different playing styles and things

English players so rarely bother going abroad, so its not all that surprising that it follows english managers don't either.

We are a lazy, insular island nation. Continentals seem to relish a new challenge abroad, learning a new language and culture. The english, on the whole, couldn't give a stuff about all that.

 

[Man of Harveys]

English players so rarely bother going abroad, so its not all that surprising that it follows english managers don't either.

We are a lazy, insular island nation. Continentals seem to relish a new challenge abroad, learning a new language and culture. The english, on the whole, couldn't give a stuff about all that.

I don't think it's that. I think it's that there's simply far more - or too much - money here, courtesy of Sky. Why go abroad to be paid less, even if it does broaden your horizons?

 

[Easy 10]

I don't think it's that. I think it's that there's simply far more - or too much - money here, courtesy of Sky. Why go abroad to be paid less, even if it does broaden your horizons?

It may be more of a factor these days, but that wasn't always the case.

Looking back historically, english players going abroad has always been something of a rarity. Successful english players even rarer.

Owen, Beckham, David Platt, Gascoigne, Hargreaves, Ince. Waddle did well at Marseille, Wilkins at Milan. All had varying degrees of success, but they're the exception rather than the rule. Hardly a production line is it.

 

[¤DãŃn¥ §êãGüLL¤]

Yeah let's get ALLARDYCE in!!

 

[Sheebo]

They also have a number of players that are not German.

EXACTLY. I tried explaining on here that their 2 strikers were Polish etc etc but I think most people stopped listening to me when I pointed out the krauts game could've been different if there was a half compitent ref out there to give Lampard's clear goal

 

[Flair]

I want Harry Redknapp as manager (espite the fact that I hate him).

If England were playing shit he would let them know and give them a kick up the arse...

 

[Gwylan]

It may be more of a factor these days, but that wasn't always the case.

Looking back historically, english players going abroad has always been something of a rarity. Successful english players even rarer.

Owen, Beckham, David Platt, Gascoigne, Hargreaves, Ince. Waddle did well at Marseille, Wilkins at Milan. All had varying degrees of success, but they're the exception rather than the rule. Hardly a production line is it.

OK, he wasn't English but in 1997 John Charles was voted Juventus's best ever foreign player - ahead of Platini and Zidane.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

the german "they've got loads of foreigners aint they" thing is always blown out of proportion

to my knowledge it's only really cacau (who was only a squad player) that has no real links with germany...people like klose and podolski have lived there since fairly young and certainly before they were playing football

when france filled their team with african born/african origin players in 1998 and 2002 it was a "triumph for multi culturalism" yet when germany do it it's somehow dodgy?