Bring back hanging !

[Mr Burns]

I called BB a "cock" NOT because he held the view that we should bring back hanging, but because he suggested that anyone who didn't hold that point of view was a member of the tree hugging PC brigade who are more interested in the interests of the criminal, you idiot!

Yes it is, and unlike is usually the case with LI, I will answer it. However, you could have asked me that very question at the beginning instead of calling me prick for no apparent reason.

The first thing I would say is that without attempting to understand why people behave like this, we will just be on a path of slaughtering people who stray this far from the norm. I'd rather understand why they got so f***ed up in the first place. Are these things caused by abuse by the murderer from years before? Is it poverty? Is it bullying? Is it exposure to certain media? This is not out of care for the welfare of a criminal - it's about giving social services the heads up for high risk cases in the future.

And it must be caused by something. Afterall, in some communities world wide, crime (let alone violent crime) is barely heard of...

Hold you horses a second here mate.

I dont think BB implied that at all. If you read it, he said there will be, he never impiled this to everyone. How do you read that as he implies it to everyone who dont agree with him? So for you to call him a cock is wrong, and jumping the gun, and calling me an idiot above is making you sound even more stupid. I called you a prick, because of the way you attacked him, and after reading what he put, and what you put above I stand by that. I think you have mis-read, or read what you wanted too, in his comments.

You still haven't answered my point. Is it this, is it that, is it this. What do you do with the information if you know? Short of banning a person having contact with children who you may think will offend, what can you do? Please tell.

 

[El Presidente]

I fully understand people's need to perceive justice as being done.

Agree totally, but what many people want is vengeance not justice. It makes them feel good, but cannot reverse the original crime.

 

[British Bulldog]

No wonder the trains are screwed

Not until I get to work they wont be!

 

[fleet]

I don't agree with the death sentence , but there is no way that this guy should live if guilty (it is always the proof of that last bit that gets me)

 

[Man of Harveys]

So a racist is now in the same catagory as a child rapist/murderer yeah?

Don't be daft - did I say that? No I didn't. My point was that someone, somewhere deciding that someone else is an "evil monster" is not really enough for the state to kill them - my "evil monster" might be different to yours, say.

 

[British Bulldog]

I dont think BB implied that at all. If you read it, he said there will be, he never impiled this to everyone. How do you read that as he implies it to everyone who dont agree with him?

Thank you Mr Burns i'm glad you understood where I was coming from.

 

[Mr Burns]

How can you eliminate them before they commit the crime?

The person that killed that poor defenceless child may have had no criminal record for similar activities.

This is my point exactly. It's very easy for people to say, we have to learn why they do it, but what use it is. AS I say the only way to stop it if you learnt why they did it, would then be remove everyone for society that may fall into that catagery.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Agree totally, but what many people want is vengeance not justice. It makes them feel good, but cannot reverse the original crime.

That's exactly what I meant, many people get "justice" and "vengeance" confused.

Unfortunately if our laws allowed for vengeance every time someone wronged us, there wouldn't be many people left!

In any case, I have absolutely no problem at all with say, Ian Huntley, sitting miserably in a cell for the next forty years, sieving all his food for broken glass, wiping the spit of other low-lifes off his clothes and having to take showers on his own. The death penalty would have been wasted on someone like him!

 

[Mr Burns]

Thank you Mr Burns i'm glad you understood where I was coming from.

I think Simster does as well, but he is trying to agrue his way out of it, instead of apologising for calling you what he did, and admitting he mis-read it and made a mistake in attacking you. Don't hold you breath though because were probably 'nasty idiots' to him!!

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I am with Dave and Simster a murder to punish a murder is not right and there's always a good chance a lot of innocent people will be strung up, best estimates are that 10% of murderers serving time are innocent, just closure for the police files and move onto the next case, they want to pin it on someone, hopefull the right person but if not, ah well, also the death penalty has absolutely no deterant value at all as these people are sick/evil and do not think in a rationale way

 

[El Presidente]

AS I say the only way to stop it if you learnt why they did it, would then be remove everyone for society that may fall into that catagery.

If you remove everyone who MAY fall into that category, then you would hang many people who have never committed a crime, and may never do so.

 

[British Bulldog]

Don't be daft - did I say that? No I didn't. My point was that someone, somewhere deciding that someone else is an "evil monster" is not really enough for the state to kill them - my "evil monster" might be different to yours, say.

So what would you call a child rapist/murderer? And how would you punish and try to understand a person who has commited this type of crime? What would be your method of trying to get inside their mind to find out what drives them to it?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I have absolutely no problem at all with say, Ian Huntley, sitting miserably in a cell for the next forty years, sieving all his food for broken glass, wiping the spit of other low-lifes off his clothes and having to take showers on his own. The death penalty would have been wasted on someone like him!

Hard to argue with that.

 

[tedebear]

That's exactly what I meant, many people get "justice" and "vengeance" confused.

Unfortunately if our laws allowed for vengeance every time someone wronged us, there wouldn't be many people left!

In any case, I have absolutely no problem at all with say, Ian Huntley, sitting miserably in a cell for the next forty years, sieving all his food for broken glass, wiping the spit of other low-lifes off his clothes and having to take showers on his own. The death penalty would have been wasted on someone like him!

Good point you two - vengeance has been taken over by the state in the form of prison and or punishment of a sort. If we left vengeance to the public - good god what a state we'd be in...

Besides - what happens to all those put to death who then have their cases reopened and found incorrectly charged?

There is no deterant possible for exceptionally "sick" people, however locking them away forever is certainly one way of ensuring they never commit their crimes again...

 

[Simster]

Hold you horses a second here mate.

I dont think BB implied that at all. If you read it, he said there will be, he never impiled this to everyone. How do you read that as he implies it to everyone who dont agree with him?

I think we'll agree to disagree on that one

I called you a prick, because of the way you attacked him

Complete and utter bollocks. This is your first post on this thread:

Simster,to me, and probably anyone who's read through this thread, you are coming over as bit of a prick to honest mate.

How on earth can anyone understand why it happens?

No mention of me chastising BB whatsoever. It was purely down to the fact that you don't agree with my point of view. Now why don't YOU re-read YOUR post rather than sanctimoneously telling me to do the same thing.

You still haven't answered my point. Is it this, is it that, is it this. What do you do with the information if you know? Short of banning a person having contact with children who you may think will offend, what can you do? Please tell.

I *think* I know what you're asking. It might be true that you can't prevent somebody who is hell bent on this sort of depravity, BUT what we can do as a society is create the conditions where the chance of this sort of case arising is minimised. But of course in order to do that, we really need to understand why it happens.

However, I will repeat this: trying to understand why murderers do this is NOT out of concern for the criminal - it's all about future prevention.

 

[El Presidente]

So what would you call a child rapist/murderer?

But why is a child murderer/rapist worse than an adult murderer/rapist?

Once you start hanging people where do you stop?

Should, for example, a person who kills another whilst driving a car when speeding/texting/ being over the limit be hanged?

 

[tedebear]

So what would you call a child rapist/murderer? And how would you punish and try to understand a person who has commited this type of crime? What would be your method of trying to get inside their mind to find out what drives them to it?

I think there is enormous merit in studying the families and backgrounds that these people come from. Granted that not all of them will fall into a type, but when children are raised by parents who are abusive, drunk, disorderly, violent etc. etc. there is significant chance that the children will befall some sort of similar activities when they are so able to do. In an ideal world a society who is able to financially care for these people may prevent these crimes in future...

Did anyone see the news last night about how low the Uk fell in a study of taking care of its 15year olds? I wonder if that has anything to do with crime?

 

[Simster]

I think Simster does as well, but he is trying to agrue his way out of it, instead of apologising for calling you what he did, and admitting he mis-read it and made a mistake in attacking you. Don't hold you breath though because were probably 'nasty idiots' to him!!

Erm no, and you misjudge me. If British Bulldog is indeed NOT implying that anyone who disagrees with the death penalty is a PC do-gooder who cares more about the murderer than the victim, then I apologise unreservedly and I shouldn't have called him a cock.

Although that is however, how I read it - and if it is not the case, then why bother even mentioning these imaginery PC do-gooders. It adds nothing to the debate. Either these PC do-gooders are everywhere or they are an irrelevence. Make you mind up!

 

[Buzzer]

I urge all of the suppoters of execution to read John Grishams "an innocent man" then dide whether you back the death penalty btw it's JG's first non fiction book v.good read

or watch the classic documentary "14 days in May" about the execution of an innocent man - truly truly harrowing and as harrowing as the murder of this 2 year old girl this week.

 

[Man of Harveys]

So what would you call a child rapist/murderer? And how would you punish and try to understand a person who has commited this type of crime? What would be your method of trying to get inside their mind to find out what drives them to it?

Are you asking or ranting? It sounds a bit like the latter, tbh. I'll still try and answer...
1. Sick, in the truest sense of the word. This is the point: to want to do something like that, you're clearly mentally ill. Being condemned to being treated as someone who's that unwell, both by other people and by the authorities, for the rest of your life is, I suggest, a bleak and grim punishment of itself, if that's what you're after.
2. See Edna K's posts. She'll know the reality of the system better than any of us. It doesn't exactly sound great, does it?
3. Aaaggh, I'm neither a social worker or criminal psychologist. but there are people that are. And yes, sometimes, they do screw up badly but that doesn't make it OK for the state to kill people instead.

Right, I do need to do some work! I'll write my report, you get my train home working OK. Deal?