[Politics] Brexit

[pastafarian]

The big players are falling into place and they represent the extreme right of the Tory party, the media and UKIP.

great game smeg
which three extreme right big players from the tories the media and ukip are falling into place

bingo cards at the ready!

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

No point voting liberal, but there is in voting UKIP?

Well we all can say things we perhaps don't mean and for me UKIP are far too extreme in reality for my vote.....Liberal is a no go.....perhaps what will probably happen is i will become temporarily disillusioned and not vote at all,before eating humble pie and crawling back to Conservatives once May gets things moving in the right direction...

 

[ManOfSussex]

not sure how you equate the common travel area in ireland as staying as it is post brexit to suddenly include full border controls are coming.....who has proposed this change in the long standing agreement

I wasn't aware of any change, as yet, to The CTA, 'the full border controls' quote was in response to your remark further up the this thread of:

Full border controls to include EU nationals are coming

I wasn't aware that had been set in stone either in the negotiations.

 

[vegster]

parliament doesnt need to vote on the exit
whats to vote on?
we are leaving.

demand a vote if you want on deciding if the exit plan meets approval.....if it doesnt meet with approval then back to the drawing board and more years of negotiations.......then another approval vote.....oops didnt agree with that either........more years of negotiations.......and guess what ......another approval vote.
How many decades do you want to draw the exit out to exactly

Time to leave
you lot can always propose rejoining again further down the line

The point is that we have no say as to the results of any negotiations. Such a rosy future...

 

[Baldseagull]

i think most people have said we can trade with the EU and not have to subscribe to free movement....which is true for most countries.
free movement is a busted flush for the UK......its finished.....its kaput.
any trade deal we have with the EU will not involve free movement
Full border controls to include EU nationals are coming

If the major issue for you is freeing up trade with the world, would it not be a bit of an own goal to hinder trade with 27 of our neighbours?

 

[beorhthelm]

If the major issue for you is freeing up trade with the world, would it not be a bit of an own goal to hinder trade with 27 of our neighbours?

the terms of the trade agreement with the EU is that you may not enter into trade agreement with anyone else, the EU must negotiate all members trade relations. remember its origin is a protectist bloc to prevent inward trade and promote internal trade.

 

[Baldseagull]

Does this apply to the unemployed masses in the EU southern regions ?

With less cash in the pot with Britain leaving, I suspect development grants and such will be reduced in these areas, which will hinder investment by business to create jobs.
Britain leaving is bad for the E.U., I happen to believe it is also bad for the U.K.

 

[Baldseagull]

So are you saying that over the 13 Labour years and just before and since, the "working class" have been looked after. I must have missed it.

No, but it can get worse, as I suspect we will see.

 

[Soulman]

No, but it can get worse, as I suspect we will see.

Perhaps but, do you not think that because successive governments have taken little notice of the people that it serves, even after many warnings, then they were blase and thought they would win the vote to stay in. Well now will not have the EU decisions that the government can hide behind, i think the people of the UK will kick out those that no longer listen.

 

[ManOfSussex]

i think the people of the UK will kick out those that no longer listen.

Like The House of Lords?

 

[Baldseagull]

the terms of the trade agreement with the EU is that you may not enter into trade agreement with anyone else, the EU must negotiate all members trade relations. remember its origin is a protectist bloc to prevent inward trade and promote internal trade.

Yes, this is true, though these days it is attempting to open up to more of the world. There are benefits to making it a little harder to do business here for countries that perhaps have bad environmental practices, poor working conditions or poor human rights.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Perhaps but, do you not think that because successive governments have taken little notice of the people that it serves, even after many warnings, then they were blase and thought they would win the vote to stay in. Well now will not have the EU decisions that the government can hide behind, i think the people of the UK will kick out those that no longer listen.

Just out of interest which worries of the, um, working classes do you feel successive governments most failed to address?

 

[Soulman]

Just out of interest which worries of the, um, working classes do you feel successive governments most failed to address?

How do you mean "which". I feel as working class that we were pushed to the back mainly all round by both parties, more so by Labour actually who seemed intent on making it more worthwhile (in a lot of cases) to be on the dole. Also the amount of immigration which after being booted out they admitted was done for votes.
So for votes they courted the unemployed and immigrants. Both did not help the working class who's wages stagnated or were lowered with the scare of joining the unemployed. Labour were an embarrassment for the working class, they deserted the people that they were meant to represent, that is why i and many others "working" class will never vote Labour again.

 

[studio150]

How do you mean "which". I feel as working class that we were pushed to the back mainly all round by both parties, more so by Labour actually who seemed intent on making it more worthwhile (in a lot of cases) to be on the dole. Also the amount of immigration which after being booted out they admitted was done for votes.
So for votes they courted the unemployed and immigrants. Both did not help the working class who's wages stagnated or were lowered with the scare of joining the unemployed. Labour were an embarrassment for the working class, they deserted the people that they were meant to represent, that is why i and many others "working" class will never vote Labour again.

So on the basis that voters will kick out those that don't listen, with a current Conservative Government, who are you going to vote for next time around if they are not listening given that you are never ever going to vote Labour again, who at thsi stage do you see as a viable alternative locally to ensure Conservatives are not returned.

 

[Soulman]

So on the basis that voters will kick out those that don't listen, with a current Conservative Government, who are you going to vote for next time around if they are not listening given that you are never ever going to vote Labour again, who at thsi stage do you see as a viable alternative locally to ensure Conservatives are not returned.

I have never voted Conservative, and i will not vote for a party that does not listen.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

How do you mean "which". I feel as working class that we were pushed to the back mainly all round by both parties, more so by Labour actually who seemed intent on making it more worthwhile (in a lot of cases) to be on the dole. Also the amount of immigration which after being booted out they admitted was done for votes.
So for votes they courted the unemployed and immigrants. Both did not help the working class who's wages stagnated or were lowered with the scare of joining the unemployed. Labour were an embarrassment for the working class, they deserted the people that they were meant to represent, that is why i and many others "working" class will never vote Labour again.

I sympathise completely with the points you make. But with respect you have highlighted the problem of this referendum. The grievances you legitimately hold, and which led to the way you and perhaps millions voted on 23 June, had little direct connection with our membership of the EU.

 

[Soulman]

I sympathise completely with the points you make. But with respect you have highlighted the problem of this referendum. The grievances you legitimately hold, and which led to the way you and perhaps millions voted on 23 June, had little direct connection with our membership of the EU.

My opinion was asked about what successive governments failure to address the working class, i merely gave reasons why i felt let down, my opinion on being members of the EU and why i voted out is a different matter, nothing to do with the working class treatment in this country.
" perhaps millions voted on 23 June," for out because of reasons given time and time again on here, many non working class voted out, not listening to the people on the EU is a different proposition in other words. Again the reasons by those that voted out have been well documented on here. So my post has NOT "highlighted the problem of this referendum".

 

[pastafarian]

I sympathise completely with the points you make. But with respect you have highlighted the problem of this referendum. The grievances you legitimately hold, and which led to the way you and perhaps millions voted on 23 June, had little direct connection with our membership of the EU.

ive notice soulman make quite a few posts over various threads and on various EU issues as to why he considers it a bad institution and that we should leave because of those issues.
did you not notice his input?
cant you be miffed at the labour party and have strong viewpoints on the EU at the same time?

 

[Soulman]

ive notice soulman make quite a few posts over various threads and on various EU issues as to why he considers it a bad institution and that we should leave because of those issues.
did you not notice his input?
cant you be miffed at the labour party and have strong viewpoints on the EU at the same time?

Exactly.
What i was trying to say is that my disappointment at the way the governments (especially Labour which is meant to be pro working class) have acted has nothing to do with why i voted out. Membership of an un elected body in Europe that makes decisions for the UK plus other reasons well documented, is not my flavour.

 

[BadFish]

Perhaps but, do you not think that because successive governments have taken little notice of the people that it serves, even after many warnings, then they were blase and thought they would win the vote to stay in. Well now will not have the EU decisions that the government can hide behind, i think the people of the UK will kick out those that no longer listen.

A U.K. Government without the ability to blame the EU and immigrants for their poor performance is an interesting one. Will they strive to improve things for voters or find a new scapegoat?

Interesting times.