[Politics] Brexit

[BigGully]

I don't think many leavers actually give it much thought. Even the leaders of Brexit don't seem to know what the plan is?

That doesnt make sense though, as Brexiteers they will have preferences but cannot implement them and offer you guarantees because we have to negotiate with the EU to confirm them.

But for you Remainers, you were never voting for the EU as we know it today anyway, I think most realise that it needs reforming and will reform, but again you and I do not know what exactly that reform will be, so you too voted for a EU that we cannot be sure of its outcome, just guaranteeing a few weeks, months or years of what we already have is just delaying the inevitable and again the markets will fluctuate at that time to and some will be gloomy whilst others optimistic.

As a Remainer were you voting for the 50% youth unemployed of Spain and Italy or the failing economies of France and Greece, or was it the inevitable daily fluctuations of the markets you paramount concern ??

 

[ManOfSussex]

If there's one thing I have learnt from Brexit it's that anyone can believe anything. Someone seems to believe that Mrs Leadsom isn't quite what's she's making out she is - http://reaction.life/was-andrea-leadsom-really-such-a-city-hotshot/

 

[beorhthelm]

I'm not sure how 'increasing/accelerating' economic problems is a good thing though?

where did i say it was a good thing? im point out these are not new issues, they are brought about by global macroeconomics. some aren't even problems, its not a problem if we lower corporation tax, just a policy that some dislike; its not necessarily a problem if Scotland chose to leave the UK, and they've been hankering after this since the last referendum anyway. bank reserves were expected to be relaxed to promote more investment anyway (and would have been seen as a sign of confidence in the stability of the bank in other circumstances).

IN THE PIPELINE?

Where were the indicators suggesting the pound would drop below 1.30 on the dollar, our credit rating would be reduced, foreign banks would stop lending on London property, petrol would increase (it's been falling) and we'd abandon the intention to balance the books?

again a where did i make any claims on these points? fall against the dollar is the only reaction directly and wholey attributable to the Brexit result. our credit rating has not been downgraded, it is the outlook thats changed, which is not the same thing and had no effect on UK bond prices (yeilds are falling). petrol was already rising for months due to recovering oil price, and the aim to balance the books was a political land mine that put a straitjacket around fiscal policy. see above for other issues in the pipeline, also commercial property (more so than residential) has been regarded as over bought and the sovereign bond issue with Euro nations has been bubbling away.

all im saying is a lot of economic issues were already in the system regardless of Brexit vote and the outcome eitherway. the lack of leadership has probably had more impact on sentiment than the result itself. the events have probably precipitated the concern in commercial property funds and have caused two intended policy changes (corporation tax and relaxing bank reserve) to be brough forward, and allowed chancellor to drop a poor policy. this is what i mean in other posts about people talking up a recession, in other circumstances all three changes would have been heralded as good, now they are bad.

and lets come back to oil for a moment, price has risen some 60% since lows of February, so a further increase of 8-10% from a weaker £ is a relative small change here (more impact will be seen on consumer goods).

 

[fosters headband]

If there's one thing I have learnt from Brexit it's that anyone can believe anything. Someone seems to believe that Mrs Leadsom isn't quite what's she's making out she is - http://reaction.life/was-andrea-leadsom-really-such-a-city-hotshot/

It is hard to keep up with all the lies spouted by politicians that are just wanting to further their own careers and bank balances.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I see the FTSE 250 is up over 300 points (2%) this morning so not all doom and gloom.

 

[fosters headband]

I see the FTSE 250 is up over 300 points (2%) this morning so not all doom and gloom.

How is the pound doing? I do have a few of those to spend on food and other bills but I don't have money for shares

 

[Guinness Boy]

our credit rating has not been downgraded,

Yes it has by Fitch straight after Brexit. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-downgraded-fitch-eu-referendum-a7106551.html

petrol was already rising for months due to recovering oil price,

It will increase further due to Brexit

https://www.petrolprices.com/petrol-prices-and-brexit-what-to-expect/

http://www.whatcar.com/news/diesel-prices-to-rise-following-brexit-vote/

also commercial property (more so than residential) has been regarded as over bought and the sovereign bond issue with Euro nations has been bubbling away.

A risk that has crystalised in the last week or so, remarkably.

 

[marshy68]

That doesnt make sense though, as Brexiteers they will have preferences but cannot implement them and offer you guarantees because we have to negotiate with the EU to confirm them.

But for you Remainers, you were never voting for the EU as we know it today anyway, I think most realise that it needs reforming and will reform, but again you and I do not know what exactly that reform will be, so you too voted for a EU that we cannot be sure of its outcome, just guaranteeing a few weeks, months or years of what we already have is just delaying the inevitable and again the markets will fluctuate at that time to and some will be gloomy whilst others optimistic.

As a Remainer were you voting for the 50% youth unemployed of Spain and Italy or the failing economies of France and Greece, or was it the inevitable daily fluctuations of the markets you paramount concern ??[/QUOTE]

The economic issues in the EU countries will only get worse with the UK out of Europe with the potential drop in trade and tariff barriers. We now have no chance to reform the EU in any shape or form as we have voted not to be in the club. I agree the EU needed reform, but I would rather be in the club to try and reform it. If the vote had been remain 52% leave 48% that would be a huge mandate for the UK to go to the EU and push for strong far reaching reforms.

As an aside it will be very interesting to see how negotiations go. Reading the French press they are stating they will not make it easy for the English and a good deal is not what will be offered. They also want us to leave and leave now. I know its the press but they are already putting huge pressure on their politicians not to be soft on des anglais.


PS I don't know why my quoting your post is not working very well!

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes it has by Fitch straight after Brexit. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-downgraded-fitch-eu-referendum-a7106551.html

fair enough, i was thinking only of the Moody's outlook, which seems to gain more coverage.

 

[pb21]

Yes it has by Fitch straight after Brexit. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-downgraded-fitch-eu-referendum-a7106551.html

Also by s&p. AA+ to AA.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/30/eus-credit-rating-downgraded-after-uks-vote-to-leave

 

[Baldseagull]

Well said. Time for a dynamic new start from someone with the drive and vigour to face the temporary minor difficulties and make the most of our newly regained freedom/independence.

The temporary minor difficulties will be replaced with severe and long lasting ones, if we leave.
And it will not be because I say it, it will be because we did it. We are in a gap between making a bad decision and carrying out that decision, if and when we start the process proper, the real shit will go down.
I notice your location, Middle Earth. Come live in the real world.

 

[Soulman]

No QT for me tonight, it comes from Brighton so the audience will be filled with the doomers and gloomers and lefties.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The temporary minor difficulties will be replaced with severe and long lasting ones, if we leave.
And it will not be because I say it, it will be because we did it. We are in a gap between making a bad decision and carrying out that decision, if and when we start the process proper, the real shit will go down.
I notice your location, Middle Earth. Come live in the real world.

When we start to enact the process instructed by the democratic will of the majority we will begin to see what our new relationship with our European friends is likely to be rather rely on guesswork which suggests the overly optimistic sunny uplands or the doomsday 'real shit going down'.

I notice your location, Crawley with a 58% vote to leave ... the real world indeed.

 

[daveinprague]

No QT for me tonight, it comes from Brighton so the audience will be filled with the doomers and gloomers and lefties.

Maybe you could get a ticket to level it up with rightwing people who post outright lies on forums? Make it more democratic for you.

 

[smeg]

No QT for me tonight, it comes from Brighton so the audience will be filled with the doomers and gloomers and lefties.

Yeah it's going to be awful, I don't know why they are complaining! "Let's just see what happens, Everything will be ok" etc........

 

[studio150]

No QT for me tonight, it comes from Brighton so the audience will be filled with the doomers and gloomers and lefties.

i assume you didn't get a ticket on the basis that anything you say will be shown to either be wrong or missing important detail which does not support your view. Then rather like this thread you will remain silent, which wouldn't make good television as the idea is to have a debate not to sit in silence.

 

[Baldseagull]

That doesnt make sense though, as Brexiteers they will have preferences but cannot implement them and offer you guarantees because we have to negotiate with the EU to confirm them.

But for you Remainers, you were never voting for the EU as we know it today anyway, I think most realise that it needs reforming and will reform, but again you and I do not know what exactly that reform will be, so you too voted for a EU that we cannot be sure of its outcome, just guaranteeing a few weeks, months or years of what we already have is just delaying the inevitable and again the markets will fluctuate at that time to and some will be gloomy whilst others optimistic.

As a Remainer were you voting for the 50% youth unemployed of Spain and Italy or the failing economies of France and Greece, or was it the inevitable daily fluctuations of the markets you paramount concern ??

In part, I was voting with other members interests in mind, the difficulties faced by our neighbours will get worse with us leaving, there is a potential for a fragmentation of the Union.
The evolution of the E.U. is slow and plodding, frustratingly so at times, so nothing that happens, happens overnight, there is time to adjust, amend, or block stuff, leaving will bring challenges on every front all at once, and will be a rush job.
We are one of the stronger members, the wealthier members and made a large net contribution, we chose to try and keep more for ourselves and share less with our neighbours, at a time when we need to help eachother, not very British in my opinion.

 

[Soulman]

i assume you didn't get a ticket on the basis that anything you say will be shown to either be wrong or missing important detail which does not support your view. Then rather like this thread you will remain silent, which wouldn't make good television as the idea is to have a debate not to sit in silence.

Ah Ok oh insulting one from behind the keyboard. Unfortunately using my mobile and just popping in occasionally in the day, unlike some, I posted that Norway turned away 8000 last month. As was pointed out by a poster it was indeed a year. I expected to be pulled up about it and admit my figures and text was wrong on THIS occasion. Keep going keyboard warrior, your country needs you.

 

[daveinprague]

Ah Ok oh insulting one from behind the keyboard. Unfortunately using my mobile and just popping in occasionally in the day, unlike some, I posted that Norway turned away 8000 last month. As was pointed out by a poster it was indeed a year. I expected to be pulled up about it and admit my figures and text was wrong on THIS occasion. Keep going keyboard warrior, your country needs you.

People are keyboard warriors for pointing out that you lied, and did not retract, or mention it again until now?
How right were you when you posted a picture of the Labour Business secretary as a member of UKIP?

 

[SK1NT]

thats a lie,you dont have to have free movement to trade with the EU




the referendum was not solely about immigration,so they are not lying. Immigration was an important factor. Most people who voted leave placed the whole democracy issue as their most important concern. Doesnt fit with your hate narrative i know,but facts are facts



Pay much more than who?

Than they take...