[Politics] Brexit

[Two Professors]

If that is the case, then frankly they shouldn't have a vote. I voted in this country's best interests in my opinion. If anyone voted for the reason you put above, they really need to take a long hard look at themselves as it is pathetic. I know you can't judge everyone by their posts on here but I've never noticed your posts much before and now you seem really aggressive and rude.

We live,thank god,in a democracy where everybody who fits a broad range of criteria is free to vote how they like,and why they feel they should.Suggesting that people who haven't achieved degree level education is ineligible to vote is the type of elitism that leads to dictatorship.Being dictated to by people who think they are superior,here or in Brussels,will inevitably upset normal people,and this totally unexpected result is a slap in the face that will hopefully cause the metropolitan and political 'elite' to take a long,hard look at themselves.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I think people in this country have had enough of experts..............

you mean people like George Soros ?

warned against the UK leaving the EU
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...gger-sterling-fall-worse-than-black-wednesday

turns out he was long pounds:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/soros-did-not-bet-against-the-british-pound-120646038.html

co-incidence ?

Christine Lagarde (IMF) also seems to believe the markets are wrong in not reacting with Armageddon. Since when has her remit been to talk down the economic prospects of nations ? Presumably if the markets had reacting more extremely she would have used this as confirmation of her views. I do not believe in ignoring experts. However I am sometimes sceptical about the agendas that populate their assumptions. The 'expert' debate was never so black and white as people have claimed. Like a lot things in life there is more complexity.

 

[Triggaaar]

So, IDS, Gove and Johnson travelled around on a bus for the campaign with a lie they are now backtracking on and we're supposed to trust them HOW exactly?

**** that.

Forget the deceit? No.

You're just being naive and bitter. The out campaign could not tell you what would happen if we voted leave for two important reasons: 1) They're not our government, and 2) No one yet knows what deal we can agree with the EU.

We're lied to by every party in every general election - they tell us the deficit will come down etc, but they don't know what will happen either, as economies change etc.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that the remain camp told us the truth? Didn't Cameron say he'd instigate Article 50 straight away? So we can't trust the remainers either.

I don't trust any of our politicians, they're politicians FFS!

We are where we are, we need to do what's best for the UK now.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I bet you ONE MILLION POUNDS that not everyone knows that, actually. A lot of voters were fed lies, printed on the side on a campaign bus.

You cannot possibly think that people all knew that was guff.

Neither of us know how many of the lies from both sides were believed by voters. The point is that everyone had the chance to make up their own minds. There is a very high degree of mistrust of politicians so believing in what they say may be somewhat rarer than you think. People on both sides are guilty of believing lies that suit their own agendas. I am still waiting for anyone in the official campaigns to admit the truth of this.

 

[Triggaaar]

A lot of voters were fed lies, printed on the side on a campaign bus.

You cannot possibly think that people all knew that was guff.

So you believed everything the Leave campaign said, and you voted leave did you?

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

As everyone knows they did not have any mandate to make changes to Government spending. This comes at General Election time when you get to decide who will make these spending decisions. If you believed that these were 'promises'

whilst many people would not believe it some people do/did. Its why they do it in the first place to get a good sound bite that people can quote verbatim. Its similar to lawyers who say something that gets immediately retracted and stricken from the record however you can't unhear something. A lot of people while not believing it completely would have thought that is was true but an exaggeration but not quite understood the scale of the exaggeration.

 

[One Love]

You see those narrow minded racists that also voted remain

That's an oxymoron.

Accepting that a massive amount of leave voters are not racist.

 

[pb21]

Whilst I hope you're right we've already ****ed up our relationship with the EU.

There will have to be a general election prior to discussions regarding Article 50 commence as we the electorate haven't been asked what we want. It would be completely undemocratic to undertake Article 50 negotiations without understanding what the electorate want. These will be fundamental changes that will affect this country forever, the electorate need to be asked what they want before this happens.

Hopefully in a GE a significant pro EU vote, presumably at least 48% will allow for a pro EU government to be formed (or at least a government that reflects the democratic vote). Whilst we have ****ed our relationship with the EU hopefully something can be salvaged as it is in everyone's interests if we do...

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Ok thanks. My reply to you was a little tongue in cheek if I'm honest, the point I was trying to make was that your reaction to suggest getting rid of the racists and bigots was a little extreme, unfortunately they are entitled to their views and opinions and vote like the rest of us. But to then follow on and try to suggest that by voting leave I was guilty of racism by association was quite frankly a bit ridiculous. I may as well claim that due to some Paedophiles casting their remain votes that you must sympathise with their views on sex with children, again this is also a ridiculous claim but you see my point.

racists are entitled to vote and we can't exclude them without becoming them. Perhaps someone could make a new soft drink called "white supremacist" and lace it with strychnine and they take care of themselves.....

 

[Billy the Fish]

Wow, this thread was quite civilised over the weekend. It's gone back to shouty abusive mode.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

whilst many people would not believe it some people do/did. Its why they do it in the first place to get a good sound bite that people can quote verbatim. Its similar to lawyers who say something that gets immediately retracted and stricken from the record however you can't unhear something. A lot of people while not believing it completely would have thought that is was true but an exaggeration but not quite understood the scale of the exaggeration.

yes but this happens at every General Election. It is an inevitable by-product of democracy and most Governments spend most of their time in office being accused of U turns and breaking promises. This was a single issue vote but the same applies because we do not have a mechanism to audit promises. That would be undemocratic because of the nuance of the promise so there could not be an independent arbiter. Democracy is not perfect but if people don't like the result they must make their case better and also engage with the electorate. It is my view that Remain did not engage and therefore lost.

 

[CHAPPERS]

So you believed everything the Leave campaign said, and you voted leave did you?

No. But people will have done. You don't believe that? You don't believe that big straight up lie on the bus affected votes?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Nobody wants to be the fall guy who will go down in history as the person who signed off on Article 50. Tho if Cameron is planning on staying on til October he needs to stop whining about having to 'do all the hard shit' and earn his pay. Can't have it both ways. It's his name in the history frame anyways, whatever he does from here on in.

 

[Buzzer]

That's an oxymoron.

Accepting that a massive amount of leave voters are not racist.

I accept your point but is the loathing of people of a different class any better? Racists want laws that give them superiority over other races, a lot of the metropolitan middle-classes want to disenfranchise the working-class. Apparently they are stupid and ergo, stupid people shouldn't get a vote.

 

[The Fifth Column]

We live,thank god,in a democracy where everybody who fits a broad range of criteria is free to vote how they like,and why they feel they should.Suggesting that people who haven't achieved degree level education is ineligible to vote is the type of elitism that leads to dictatorship.Being dictated to by people who think they are superior,here or in Brussels,will inevitably upset normal people,and this totally unexpected result is a slap in the face that will hopefully cause the metropolitan and political 'elite' to take a long,hard look at themselves.

I think this is where both campaigns failed utterly. I may have voted remain if they had simply ignored the negative scaremongering and talking down to people and concentrated on selling me their positive vision of Europe, equally I almost didn't vote leave due to the similarly negative style of campaigning by buffoons like Johnson and Farage and the overall xenophobia attached to the Leave camp.

On the positive side whatever way you cast your vote this has given a massive and deserved kick up the arse to the ruling elite, both the Tories and Labour who are in disarray in equal measure, it seems to have sparked a genuine interest in people with politics and what is happening and we can only hope that they take note that the people have spoken and that they need to re-engage with the electorate because so many of them are clearly way out of touch with real people and real issues.

 

[ManOfSussex]

There will have to be a general election prior to discussions regarding Article 50 commence as we the electorate haven't been asked what we want. It would be completely undemocratic to undertake Article 50 negotiations without understanding what the electorate want. These will be fundamental changes that will affect this country forever, the electorate need to be asked what they want before this happens.

Hopefully in a GE a significant pro EU vote, presumably at least 48% will allow for a pro EU government to be formed (or at least a government that reflects the democratic vote). Whilst we have ****ed our relationship with the EU hopefully something can be salvaged as it is in everyone's interests if we do...

Lets assume there is a general election prior to invoking Article 50 this year, which is not beyond the realms of possibility. Would The Conservative party unite over a clear position in regards to The EU? What would Labour do when so many of its voters backed 'leave'? How many Conservative and Labour voters would switch to UKIP in a general election? What would the result be? What horse trading would go on in a hung parliament scenario?

This whole EU situation is just going to be never ending in my opinion.

 

[clippedgull]

New PM appointment brought forward to 2nd September by 1922 committee.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

yes but this happens at every General Election. It is an inevitable by-product of democracy and most Governments spend most of their time in office being accused of U turns and breaking promises. This was a single issue vote but the same applies because we do not have a mechanism to audit promises. That would be undemocratic because of the nuance of the promise so there could not be an independent arbiter. Democracy is not perfect but if people don't like the result they must make their case better and also engage with the electorate. It is my view that Remain did not engage and therefore lost.

Indeed it does happen at every election and i know i'm crazy and obviously ideological but i wish they would campaign on how good their side was rather than mud slinging all the time. If they spent half as much effort in running a good campaign as they do belittling the other side then i feel they would engage the public better

 

[One Love]

I accept your point but is the loathing of people of a different class any better? Racists want laws that give them superiority over other races, a lot of the metropolitan middle-classes want to disenfranchise the working-class. Apparently they are stupid and ergo, stupid people shouldn't get a vote.

I agree with you. I don't advocate the loathing of anyone for being different.

 

[ManOfSussex]

New PM appointment brought forward to 2nd September by 1922 committee.

It should be sooner. Parliament shouldn't be going into recess in July either.

Crisis? What crisis?