[Politics] Brexit

[El Presidente]

Sounds like a plan to me. Question is why hasn't this been done before?

Poor management, self interested trade unions, short term industrial policies by government, Michael Gove as Educashin secretary, and the return to 3R's learning to appease the fourth estate are contributory factors. Add to that a culture of seeing learning as being uncool and that's where we are today.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

So your solution is to invoke some type of ethnic cleansing operation? You see those narrow minded racists that also voted remain, that is the sort of person you were agreeing with.

What are you talking about? It has nothing to do with ethnicity. I just don't like racists and bigots. It is solely based on opinion. Or are you saying it's fine for him to post things like that on Twitter (and others to abuse people in the street) because your post suggests so?

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Actually I am, so far.
If you thought there wouldn't be uncertainty in the markets upon leaving (and I don't mean you personally), then you didn't think about it much. I am of course concerned, because I don't know that our country will be better off as a result of all this, but I still hope it will.

In what way? Of course we could have a difficult few years.

Remainers told me the only way to make the EU reform was to remain. Are you still sure about that?

As I said, fair play to you - you are pleased with this outcome and honest enough to acknowledge (some of) the problems. Perhaps it will come down to just how 'difficult' things will be and what comprises 'a few' years. Believe me when I say I hope you are right but I fear you are going to be very wrong indeed.

 

[Stat Brother]

The solution is to convert the UK into a high skilled, high wage, high productivity country by (IMO) investing in education, apprenticeships, management skills using the best people available.

Sounds like a plan to me. Question is why hasn't this been done before?

And can we wait for and afford the full generation, and some, of time and investment before seeing the return?

 

[BLOCK F]

Jeez, it's only been a few days and you are wetting yourself.

That is insulting, Soulman.
I am not wetting myself, I am merely expressing an opinion that I believe will be held by quite a number of people, who are not necessarily incontinent.
Of course it has only been a few days, but use your brain and do you think that the political and financial uncertainties will be all done and dusted just like that? Highly unlikely and I will venture the opinion that many of those who voted leave ,will , as I suggested, wonder whether it was worth all the fuss.
By the way, I have been investing in the markets for quite some time and am savvy enough not to panic. I did take the precaution of raising my cash position before the vote and selling a large holding of UK centric investments, that had produced a good profit for me in the past. I am sitting on the sidelines and will re-invest when I feel the time MAY be right.

 

[Notters]

One thing does puzzle me, if, as most think there will be a general elections, it will be a one subject campaign, because of the events of the last few days.
Which party is going to be the leaver, and which will be the remainer?
If Corbyn is still in charge, I can see Labour being so split it won't matter, and if Boris doesn't become Tory leader, which way will they jump.
Im not convinced that the Tories will campaign for a complete break even if Boris is in charge

Whilst I hope you're right we've already ****ed up our relationship with the EU.

 

[The Fifth Column]

What are you talking about? It has nothing to do with ethnicity. I just don't like racists and bigots. It is solely based on opinion. Or are you saying it's fine for him to post things like that on Twitter (and others to abuse people in the street) because your post suggests so?

Fine for who to post what on Twitter? Your post I replied to had no mention of this, I have no idea what you are talking about?! But apparently according to you I'm agreeing with 'him' therefore I'm also a racist bigot.

 

[studio150]

Although I was firmly in the 'Remain' camp, I have spent a lot of time defending many folk who voted leave from such demeaning accusations. I'll continue to do so.

Many in the 'Remain' camp claim that all folk should be treated as individuals and we should avoid sweeping and collective slurs against cultures, races and other sets of folk within society.

I would hope, through the bitterness of defeat (and I'm bitter about it) people maintain the dignity and appropriateness of their overall view of humanity.

Rally against those who do who say such awful things, but the furthering of such anger towards those there is no evidence against is political point scoring and most divisive.

So the truth has to be ignored?

Reading and listening to the news about these incidents makes me ashamed to be British as clearly these actions are unacceptable.

What also makes my blood boil is people stating that NO ie thats everyone who voted leave are NOT racist.
There should be an acceptance that is not accurate and should instead acknowledge that by talking up immigration the out campaign engaged with people who hold racist views and that they now believe (wrongly) that they a mandate to abuse anyone who they believe shouldn't be in the UK.

 

[Triggaaar]

Believe me when I say I hope you are right but I fear you are going to be very wrong indeed.

Indeed, and I'm sure millions share your view. But what's done is done - we now need to be united in getting the best result for the UK.

Forget the promises that were made in the run up to the vote (come on, we all know how politics works), we need to fight for the best deal. Some leavers said we'd fix the immigration problem and save billions of pounds - some remainers said out was out and there was no way back, and the EU wouldn't give us a deal etc etc. Forget all that nonsense.

We should get free trade with the EU, including services, or no trade with the EU. If the EU (Germany and France) had that choice, they'd take the former.

 

[symyjym]

Well looks like no winners in this at all. Boris has slept on it woken up back in the real world.

He always looks like he has just woken up tbf.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If that is the case, then frankly they shouldn't have a vote. I voted in this country's best interests in my opinion. If anyone voted for the reason you put above, they really need to take a long hard look at themselves as it is pathetic. I know you can't judge everyone by their posts on here but I've never noticed your posts much before and now you seem really aggressive and rude.

There seems to be a wilful approach by some (not necessarily you) to misunderstand and misrepresent the intellectual rationale for leaving the EU. I can assure you that Kate Hoey and Dennis Skinner are not racists. This referendum was not an opinion poll on immigration/immigrants regardless of the attempts of some on both sides to make it so. If people on here and in the country will not/cannot understand and respect the reasons for voting Leave then there is not much more many of us can do to politely explain. If it is any consolation I believe in Leaving the EU but I do not think it will actually happen. The chattering classes who are the real power in this country did not get what they want and they are not used to it. The people who move into expensive areas near a 'good' state school then parade their socially aware credentials, the people who hire expensive lawyers to exercise their 'rights' against local authorities and NHS, in short the people who shout loudest lost. That is unlikely to be allowed to play out.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Forget the promises that were made in the run up to the vote.

So, IDS, Gove and Johnson travelled around on a bus for the campaign with a lie they are now backtracking on and we're supposed to trust them HOW exactly?

**** that.

Forget the deceit? No.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Fine for who to post what on Twitter? Your post I replied to had no mention of this, I have no idea what you are talking about?! But apparently according to you I'm agreeing with 'him' therefore I'm also a racist bigot.

See Post 2691. There are reports of more racism since the referendum result and one particular case that is really disturbing. It was originally a new thread, hence I just quoted, but for context look at the post.

As for agreeing with him, I just found your response to my original post very odd. If you need context, it is there.

 

[Finchley Seagull]

There seems to be a wilful approach by some (not necessarily you) to misunderstand and misrepresent the intellectual rationale for leaving the EU. I can assure you that Kate Hoey and Dennis Skinner are not racists. This referendum was not an opinion poll on immigration/immigrants regardless of the attempts of some on both sides to make it so. If people on here and in the country will not/cannot understand and respect the reasons for voting Leave then there is not much more many of us can do to politely explain. If it is any consolation I believe in Leaving the EU but I do not think it will actually happen. The chattering classes who are the real power in this country did not get what they want and they are not used to it. The people who move into expensive areas near a 'good' state school then parade their socially aware credentials, the people who hire expensive lawyers to exercise their 'rights' against local authorities and NHS, in short the people who shout loudest lost. That is unlikely to be allowed to play out.

If you look at the post I replied to, it said people voted to get back at certain groups of people. I think, if that is the case, then it was a really stupid vote that may well end up with them losing out.

As for the people who shout the loudest. There has been active anti EU propaganda in the right wing press for decades. Farage gets a lot of publicity with very few actual questions about his policies and views. I really don't think remain shouted the loudest.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So, IDS, Gove and Johnson travelled around on a bus for the campaign with a lie they are now backtracking on and we're supposed to trust them HOW exactly?

**** that.

Forget the deceit? No.

they simply explained that if we stopped sending a sum of money to the EU then it would be available to be spent elsewhere. As everyone knows they did not have any mandate to make changes to Government spending. This comes at General Election time when you get to decide who will make these spending decisions. If you believed that these were 'promises' what mechanism did you think would deliver them bearing in mind the only thing actually being decided was 'Remain' or 'Leave the EU' and there were both Labour and Tory members of the Leave campaign. These people have different spending priorities.

 

[clippedgull]

Holidays in Scotland for the foreseeable then. Below 1.2 euros.

Better make it quick. The Scots will be under the euro soon! (if Sturgeon gets her way)

 

[ManOfSussex]

You don't quote the rest of the speech

"....This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land,
Dear for her reputation through the world,
Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it,
Like to a tenement or pelting farm:
England, bound in with the triumphant sea
Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds:
That England, that was wont to conquer others,
Hath made a shameful conquest of itself."

In fact. what Gaunt is saying is that Richard has made a right pig's ear of managing England. He chooses to believe flatterers rather than experts on running the country and is suffering a financial crisis of his own making.

You may want to draw contemporary parallels, I couldn't possibly comment

I think people in this country have had enough of experts..............

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If you look at the post I replied to, it said people voted to get back at certain groups of people. I think, if that is the case, then it was a really stupid vote that may well end up with them losing out.

As for the people who shout the loudest. There has been active anti EU propaganda in the right wing press for decades. Farage gets a lot of publicity with very few actual questions about his policies and views. I really don't think remain shouted the loudest.

I didn't see that post but I would imagine from what you say it does not articulate the reasons for voting Leave so while it may be an easy target it is not representative.
Totally agree on your second point. Farage is obnoxious and probably shouts the loudest of all. I wasn't referring to the official campaigns. The people who shout loudest are the chattering classes who like to think of themselves as left wing, live in expensive houses, 'know their rights' and tend to do much better out of the state than less eloquent people. These people did not get their way and it is simply unthinkable (to me at least) that the vote will not be overturned.

 

[CHAPPERS]

As everyone knows they did not have any mandate to make changes to Government spending..

I bet you ONE MILLION POUNDS that not everyone knows that, actually. A lot of voters were fed lies, printed on the side on a campaign bus.

You cannot possibly think that people all knew that was guff.

 

[The Fifth Column]

See Post 2691. There are reports of more racism since the referendum result and one particular case that is really disturbing. It was originally a new thread, hence I just quoted, but for context look at the post.

As for agreeing with him, I just found your response to my original post very odd. If you need context, it is there.

Ok thanks. My reply to you was a little tongue in cheek if I'm honest, the point I was trying to make was that your reaction to suggest getting rid of the racists and bigots was a little extreme, unfortunately they are entitled to their views and opinions and vote like the rest of us. But to then follow on and try to suggest that by voting leave I was guilty of racism by association was quite frankly a bit ridiculous. I may as well claim that due to some Paedophiles casting their remain votes that you must sympathise with their views on sex with children, again this is also a ridiculous claim but you see my point.