An example of too many human rights, lack of proper punishment and useless parents

[HovaGirl]

That sounds like a pathetic excuse for inactivity. Thank god the country had people with more gumption in 1939-1945.

You don't have to break the law to intervene to stop crime.

No, but for years, Middle England has been trying to protect itself, and too often, has ended up in jail, while the perpetrator has got off scott-free. Indeed people had more gumption in 1939-1945.

 

[HovaGirl]

So Hova- just admit you are too scared to leave your front door because the hordes of non British guardian reading sociology graduates have ruined your country for you.

The other 50 million of us will carry on with life in the real world.

I live in Greece. We have enough problems here. There are still rioters and strikers around, but they're not reported on any more than are those in Spain and France, where there's been increasing civil unrest for quite some time. This isn't a UK problem. It's a generation problem.

 

[Wilko]

Hovagirl - It may interest you to know that I am a Sociology lecturer, at this moment I am shocked and disgusted by what I am seeing developing in our capital and beyond. I also read the Guardian by the way. Quite how you are putting the blame at the likes of myself is quite frankly an insult.

In fact, you may as well say that lots of this looting is due to Capitalism if you want to hunt for a reason as it drives greed, look how many images there are of youths with a 32inch Plasma under their arm.

By all means be disgusted and annoyed by the events of the last 3 days, I know I am, but leave the Guardian bashing out of it.

 

[HovaGirl]

Right, so the entire readership of the Guardian are unemployed sociology graduates?

Not quite, but the paper does pander to the left-wing socially aware. Neither did I suggest its readership was unemployed. I did suggest the paper does pander to the expensive Quangos which hire people to do overpaid jobs which serve no real purpose. Just the kind of jobs the Coalition Government is trying to thin out.

 

[HovaGirl]

The social services are not made up of people who studied Sociology you moron. Social workers do a different degree, known as Social Work, it is an interdisciplinary subject covering all sorts of things not just sociology.

Sociology as a subject itself is for the gullible is it? I was going to give you a list of famous sociologists but what is the point, you can rest assured that these gullible fools have contributed more to the human race than you or I ever will.

Social Work is part of the discipline of Sociology or Social Science. I studied it myself and was horrified at the kind of bullsh*t I was reading. Just my opinion.

 

[Bold Seagull]

See my other posts. School discipline went out the window 40 years ago. Parental discipline is increasingly seen as a bad thing. You mustn't discipline children any more, because you will hurt their feelings or damage them psychologically. But children and young people need to know their limits and often try to pass them in the search for their own adulthood. Many of these rioters seem to be children or hardly more than children. They have no sense of morality, no sense of right or wrong. And where are their parents? Watching Sky TV, oblivious that their offspring could possibly be in the middle of all this. Someone else's fault.

Are you confusing corporal punishment with discipline? You do appear to be very skilled in making generalisations without any recourse to either fact or reference. I think your confusion over 'social work' and 'sociology' as has been pointed out, puts your points into the context with which they should be taken. i.e. lightly.

edit: why on earth did you choose to study Sociology then? Even more baffling...

 

[Wilko]

Not quite, but the paper does pander to the left-wing socially aware. Neither did I suggest its readership was unemployed. I did suggest the paper does pander to the expensive Quangos which hire people to do overpaid jobs which serve no real purpose. Just the kind of jobs the Coalition Government is trying to thin out.

If you think the majority of Sociology graduates go on to do over-paid jobs then you are absolutely deluded. The main jobs they go on to (yes, I do have the evidence) are: Social work, socialcare, teaching, charity work or health services. Harldy well paid jobs are they? FFS

 

[Bozza]

Hovagirl - It may interest you to know that I am a Sociology lecturer, at this moment I am shocked and disgusted by what I am seeing developing in our capital and beyond. I also read the Guardian by the way. Quite how you are putting the blame at the likes of myself is quite frankly an insult.

In fact, you may as well say that lots of this looting is due to Capitalism if you want to hunt for a reason as it drives greed, look how many images there are of youths with a 32inch Plasma under their arm.

I'm not sure you're right there.

Plasmas tend to be bigger - 40" or more. At 32", it's far more likely to be an LCD, possibly with LED backlighting.

 

[HovaGirl]

Hovagirl - It may interest you to know that I am a Sociology lecturer, at this moment I am shocked and disgusted by what I am seeing developing in our capital and beyond. I also read the Guardian by the way. Quite how you are putting the blame at the likes of myself is quite frankly an insult.

In fact, you may as well say that lots of this looting is due to Capitalism if you want to hunt for a reason as it drives greed, look how many images there are of youths with a 32inch Plasma under their arm.

By all means be disgusted and annoyed by the events of the last 3 days, I know I am, but leave the Guardian bashing out of it.

I'm not laying the blame for all of this solely on the door of the Guardian, but on the way in which British society has disintegrated during the past 40 years. The looters left baby clothes dangling in trees. TVs and mobile phones are much easier to sell. Whether this is for drugs or to supplement their benefits, I don't know, but part of the problem is the lack of jobs for these young people, and a lack of direction or sense of purpose. A whole generation of young people are bored out of their minds, with nothing to do and nowhere to go, and no money to do anything with.

 

[Pantani]

See my other posts. School discipline went out the window 40 years ago. Parental discipline is increasingly seen as a bad thing. You mustn't discipline children any more, because you will hurt their feelings or damage them psychologically. But children and young people need to know their limits and often try to pass them in the search for their own adulthood. Many of these rioters seem to be children or hardly more than children. They have no sense of morality, no sense of right or wrong. And where are their parents? Watching Sky TV, oblivious that their offspring could possibly be in the middle of all this. Someone else's fault.

What does that have to do with the Guardian newspaper though. Could be that the right wing's focus on small government and self determinism has led to this. I agree that there should be more parental discipline over the younger rioters but lets not pretend that they are all minors because they clearly are not. These kids have not been raised in some crazy liberal utopia where no one ever tells them off, if you believe that you are deluded. They have just reached a point where the potential punishment is not much worse than how they live anyway.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Not quite, but the paper does pander to the left-wing socially aware. Neither did I suggest its readership was unemployed. I did suggest the paper does pander to the expensive Quangos which hire people to do overpaid jobs which serve no real purpose. Just the kind of jobs the Coalition Government is trying to thin out.

You mean the same quango's that often operated within communities providing essential links between youth leaders, training opportunities, voluntary work etc. that served no real purpose....oh hang on a minute...

 

[HovaGirl]

If you think the majority of Sociology graduates go on to do over-paid jobs then you are absolutely deluded. The main jobs they go on to (yes, I do have the evidence) are: Social work, socialcare, teaching, charity work or health services. Harldy well paid jobs are they? FFS

I did not say "the majority" of Sociology graduates. I was talking of particular jobs in Quangos. All of the professions you mention employ admirable people doing admirable work in difficult circumstances.

 

[Wilko]

I'm not sure you're right there.

Plasmas tend to be bigger - 40" or more. At 32", it's far more likely to be an LCD, possibly with LED backlighting.

 

[Wilko]

Whether this is for drugs or to supplement their benefits, I don't know,

Don't forget it is because they are black too.

 

[Mammoth]

The Guardian has a circulation of barely quarter of a million. The conservative party has been in power for half of the last 40 years.

How then is 'the left' responsible for British societal meltdown?

 

[Pantani]

I'm not laying the blame for all of this solely on the door of the Guardian, but on the way in which British society has disintegrated during the past 40 years. The looters left baby clothes dangling in trees. TVs and mobile phones are much easier to sell. Whether this is for drugs or to supplement their benefits, I don't know, but part of the problem is the lack of jobs for these young people, and a lack of direction or sense of purpose. A whole generation of young people are bored out of their minds, with nothing to do and nowhere to go, and no money to do anything with.

This is a good post. The reasons for why these people have got to the point why they do not care about the rule of law, or their fellow citizens are open to debate though. Why has British society disintegrated to such an extent is the question. This quote from you earlier:

No, but for years, Middle England has been trying to protect itself, and too often, has ended up in jail, while the perpetrator has got off scott-free.

raises an interesting point for me, I feel that Middle England have been over franchised (I am aware that this is a strange phrase). By this I mean that the wants and needs of Middle England have been all that have been considered by the governments of the last thirty years. Certainly in terms of rhetoric anyway. The lower classes are ignored and have been for a long time.

 

[Albumen]

Controversial statement of the day "Most of the rioters are black. Most of the riot clean up crew are white"

Controversial because it's not true?

Controversial, because it could be true.

Could be. Anyone actually checked?

Yes, Sky and the BBC have seemingly cancelled leave for all their newsreading minorities.

Doubt anyone will. Too politically explosive.

London Disorder - Operation Withern - a set on Flickr

Seems 50/50 to me. Feel free to carry on with the mindless racial divide though.

 

[HovaGirl]

This is a good post. The reasons for why these people have got to the point why they do not care about the rule of law, or their fellow citizens are open to debate though. Why has British society disintegrated to such an extent is the question. This quote from you earlier:



raises an interesting point for me, I feel that Middle England have been over franchised (I am aware that this is a strange phrase). By this I mean that the wants and needs of Middle England have been all that have been considered by the governments of the last thirty years. Certainly in terms of rhetoric anyway. The lower classes are ignored and have been for a long time.

I'm not sure that's true. The lower classes have been given more and more opportunities during the past 30 or 40 years. Whether or not they take them, is up to them, and not a fault of the rest of society. It's a case of attitude and education. As to Middle England, they've taken a bashing during that time. Their free Public Schools (the Grammar Schools) have been educationally demolished. Their kids must now take loans, instead of grants, to get them through university. They have been taxed to the hilt and beyond and watched as their pensions disappeared either through theft or bankruptcy. Their parents' homes are being sold to pay for the healthcare that their grandparents got for nothing. At the same time, they have been remortgaging their homes to try and get their children on the property ladder. Now, they are watching as their businesses and cars are burnt, just BECAUSE they have business and cars.

 

[brunswick]

It's a generation problem.

close, but i would say it is the generation growing up and looking at the system they are forced to live in that is based on:

greed.
materialism.
elite few being rich.
mass corruption.
high taxes.
corporate and banking giants who care for money over humans and the planet.
the external.
status.
nationalism.
egoism.
toxic food and entertainment.

under this system the planet (nor the species probably) is long term sustainable, plus all empires come and go in waves. the chaos coming in a few years is just the system dying, it is as natural as the moon and the tides.

 

[Pantani]

I'm not sure that's true. The lower classes have been given more and more opportunities during the past 30 or 40 years. Whether or not they take them, is up to them, and not a fault of the rest of society. It's a case of attitude and education. As to Middle England, they've taken a bashing during that time. Their free Public Schools (the Grammar Schools) have been educationally demolished. Their kids must now take loans, instead of grants, to get them through university. They have been taxed to the hilt and beyond and watched as their pensions disappeared either through theft or bankruptcy. Their parents' homes are being sold to pay for the healthcare that their grandparents got for nothing. At the same time, they have been remortgaging their homes to try and get their children on the property ladder. Now, they are watching as their businesses and cars are burnt, just BECAUSE they have business and cars.

All those things you listed happened to the lower classes too. Except they were never on the property ladder to begin with so can't re-mortgage to help their kids and they never had cars or businesses to burn.