2.5 million animals killed in the UK daily, for food.

[Diego Napier]

1. Tell me how they are not facts but are amazingly distorted and illogical views please?

2. If your stance against eating meat is ethical then Vegan is the only non hypocritical option. Of course there are loads of options. You can eat what you like for all I care but vegetarianism does not IMHO stand scrutiny if followed in the name of animal welfare.

Here a short selection of thoughts about your "facts":

"1. A cow has to have a calf to produce milk. If we want milk, cheese etc but we don't eat beef then these calves (which go on to be reared for beef) would be shot at birth. What's the gain in that?"

a. Not all vegetarians consume milk, cheese etc.
b. Calves don't need to be shot at birth if they are not going to be used to produce milk
c. Artificial insemination?

2. Many veggies and vegans will (with good reason I would suggest) choose organic veg. It is not possible to produce organic food without the manures from livestock. So no meat = no organic production = More oil based pesticide and fertilisers = even more miserable veggies.

a. It is possible to produce organic food without manure
b. Manure can be used from livestock that isn't bred for consumption
c. Fertilisers don't need to be oil based

Your thought processes on this subject have been conditioned and constrained by what has become common farming practice and your "arguments" are imprecise and very selective

 

[beorhthelm]

a. Not all vegetarians consume milk, cheese etc.
b. Calves don't need to be shot at birth if they are not going to be used to produce milk
c. Artificial insemination?

a) arent those vegan then? or as good as.
b) no, but in reality they will be, there's no other purpose for them. or do you want to see herds of uncared for cattle?
c) still produces a calf. or are you suggesting abortions? interesting alternative.

a. It is possible to produce organic food without manure
b. Manure can be used from livestock that isn't bred for consumption
c. Fertilisers don't need to be oil based

a) yes, but not alot.
b) yes, but not alot. give a purpose for all those calfs maybe, farms for their poo?
c) yes, but not alot. (thats just for lolz. i though they use veg oil feedstocks lot more now anyway)

i thought abc's point was quite a good one, aimed at "prinicpled" veggies. there are those who simply dont like it of course.

 

[portlock seagull]

We're not in the ice age, it's of no relevance to why we eat meat now. I eat it because I like it, pretty much like all the food I eat. If I'm brutally honest I really don't give a flying toss if the beef I'm eating was ethically raised or given a chance to prance around a lovely grassy field or was soothed by the songs of a thousand virgins as it was humanely slaughtered, just shoot the f***ing thing and get it on my plate, same thing goes with eggs, I don't care if the chickens were given a cage to live in or an open barn to run around in, all chickens are twats anyway with their beady little eyes and stupid bobbing heads, lock the little fuckers up I say and make them lay more eggs the smug tossers, and when they can't lay eggs anymore get their useless feathery arses down to KFC.

This really made me laugh and I love animals!

 

[The Fifth Column]

There is an enormous contradiction in this post. You start by saying you were taking the piss and then go on to say that actually you fully agree with your original post in all but it's intensity.



Ironically you will find that if your meat is of a decent quality it has usually been farmed in a free range and ethical manner.



Didn't you say something about more important things in life to worry about?

Get off your high horse put your sandals on and go hug a tree sweetheart.

 

[banjo]

I eat meat because I like it and I don't have a problem with veggies. But why do they eat cardboard shaped like sausages and burgers, even bacon ?P.s they take feckin ages to cook on bbq.

 

[The Fifth Column]

Thanks for your concern but i have managed to last nearly ten years.

As you will have noticed in he subsequent post he may have been 'taking the piss' but he actually agrees with the idea he portrayed. :Many a true word is spoken in jest" and all that.

If you really want to spend time analysing, dissecting and trying to find the true meaning behind a post of mine that was essentially a load of bollox then you really have too much time on your hands and are a bit highly strung, knock yourself out though this is the Internet it's serious stuff.

 

[BadFish]

If you really want to spend time analysing, dissecting and trying to find the true meaning behind a post of mine that was essentially a load of bollox then you really have too much time on your hands and are a bit highly strung, knock yourself out though this is the Internet it's serious stuff.

At least have the bollocks to stand by what you believe in fella rather than hiding behind "I was taking the piss (but actually saying what i really think)." I may then disagree with you but at least i could respect you. To be fair if you look closely it is not me that is blowing your post out of all proportion, i just commented what i though it is you and the other fella that are getting your knickers in a knot about it.

 

[BadFish]

I eat meat because I like it and I don't have a problem with veggies. But why do they eat cardboard shaped like sausages and burgers, even bacon ?P.s they take feckin ages to cook on bbq.

not to mention tasting horrible, especially the bacon!

 

[abc]

Here a short selection of thoughts about your "facts":

"1. A cow has to have a calf to produce milk. If we want milk, cheese etc but we don't eat beef then these calves (which go on to be reared for beef) would be shot at birth. What's the gain in that?"

a. Not all vegetarians consume milk, cheese etc.
b. Calves don't need to be shot at birth if they are not going to be used to produce milk
c. Artificial insemination?

2. Many veggies and vegans will (with good reason I would suggest) choose organic veg. It is not possible to produce organic food without the manures from livestock. So no meat = no organic production = More oil based pesticide and fertilisers = even more miserable veggies.

a. It is possible to produce organic food without manure
b. Manure can be used from livestock that isn't bred for consumption
c. Fertilisers don't need to be oil based

Your thought processes on this subject have been conditioned and constrained by what has become common farming practice and your "arguments" are imprecise and very selective

Diego, your post has been responepded to extremely well but I will add:

1. I didn't say they did
2. So what do you do with them for interest? You would be talking literally hundreds of thousands being born each year. Where will they live? What will they eat? Who is going to look after them? Who will pay for this?
3. What an earth has AI got to do with this?

And

1. How?
2. How an earth is this going to provide enough?!
3. This I didn't know. Apart from manures what are the alternatives to oil based fertilisers?

 

[Diego Napier]

Diego, your post has been responepded to extremely well but I will add:

1. I didn't say they did
2. So what do you do with them for interest? You would be talking literally hundreds of thousands being born each year. Where will they live? What will they eat? Who is going to look after them? Who will pay for this?
3. What an earth has AI got to do with this?

And

1. How?
2. How an earth is this going to provide enough?!
3. This I didn't know. Apart from manures what are the alternatives to oil based fertilisers?

I don't think that my post has been responded to well at all.

Although I made the mistake of addressing to your specifics, the general thrust of my post was to respond to your use of the term "veggies are rather pathetic" because they're not vegan, backed up with your loose collection of opinions. That's as extreme as me stating that meat eaters who don't eat horse, or elephant or blue whale or human are rather pathetic.

All meat eaters are very selective in a meat centric world. Vegetarians come in all shades and most in the West are trying to find an acceptable diet in a meat obssessed society and should be allowed to be selective; to deride them as rather pathetic is very demeaning. There are 3 main reasons for people to be on a vegetarian diet; moral, health and religion. Many millions live on a vegetarian diet in other parts of the world where farming economies are not geared up to meat production. I repeat but qualify, "your thought processes on this subject have been conditioned and constrained by what has become common farming practice" in this country.

 

[abc]

I don't think that my post has been responded to well at all.

Although I made the mistake of addressing to your specifics, the general thrust of my post was to respond to your use of the term "veggies are rather pathetic" because they're not vegan, backed up with your loose collection of opinions. That's as extreme as me stating that meat eaters who don't eat horse, or elephant or blue whale or human are rather pathetic.

All meat eaters are very selective in a meat centric world. Vegetarians come in all shades and most in the West are trying to find an acceptable diet in a meat obssessed society and should be allowed to be selective; to deride them as rather pathetic is very demeaning. There are 3 main reasons for people to be on a vegetarian diet; moral, health and religion. Many millions live on a vegetarian diet in other parts of the world where farming economies are not geared up to meat production. I repeat but qualify, "your thought processes on this subject have been conditioned and constrained by what has become common farming practice" in this country.

If you re read my posts I make a point of saying that I am only talking about "vegetarians" that don't eat meat on so Alex ethics grounds. Those that choose not to eat meat because they don't like it, on health grounds etc are, as you suggest, rather different. So we agree.

Now please answer the rest of my last post as you have said nothing to support your statement that my 'facts' are incorrect.

 

[The Fifth Column]

At least have the bollocks to stand by what you believe in fella rather than hiding behind "I was taking the piss (but actually saying what i really think)." I may then disagree with you but at least i could respect you. To be fair if you look closely it is not me that is blowing your post out of all proportion, i just commented what i though it is you and the other fella that are getting your knickers in a knot about it.

You really are a sanctimonious twat aren't you, according to you I am a sad ignorant contradictory person with no bollocks who you cannot respect, and you've made those judgements on a couple of anonymous posts on a football forum, that is some skillset you have there well done you must feel very clever. Thank Christ for the ignore button as I won't have to put up with your miserable joyless morality lessons any longer. I'm off for some foie gras on toast followed by a lump of tortured veal, I'll leave you to your ethically sourced organic GM free granola bars with a cup of free range fair trade save the world coffee. now just bore off why don't you.

 

[Diego Napier]

If you re read my posts I make a point of saying that I am only talking about "vegetarians" that don't eat meat on so Alex ethics grounds. Those that choose not to eat meat because they don't like it, on health grounds etc are, as you suggest, rather different. So we agree.

Now please answer the rest of my last post as you have said nothing to support your statement that my 'facts' are incorrect.

on so Alex ethics grounds?

I do not think that we do agree; I see no distinction between choosing to be or being born a vegetarian through religious, health or moral grounds.

You seem to want to ignore the major themes of the argument and insist on getting hung upon specific, so:

Your opinions are incorrect as there are examples in other countries where cattle provide milk and fowl provide eggs but are not slaughtered for food; crops are fertilised by manure from these animals; hundreds of millions of tons of organic fertiliser is produced every year without any assistance from manure.

Try reading the points again in my last post and then you may realise that "your thought processes on this subject have been conditioned and constrained by what has become common farming practice in this country".

 

[BadFish]

You really are a sanctimonious twat aren't you, according to you I am a sad ignorant contradictory person with no bollocks who you cannot respect, and you've made those judgements on a couple of anonymous posts on a football forum, that is some skillset you have there well done you must feel very clever. Thank Christ for the ignore button as I won't have to put up with your miserable joyless morality lessons any longer. I'm off for some foie gras on toast followed by a lump of tortured veal, I'll leave you to your ethically sourced organic GM free granola bars with a cup of free range fair trade save the world coffee. now just bore off why don't you.

Aww bless, I was only taking the piss! And all this chucking your toys out of your pram because someone didn't find your joke funny.

I did just enjoy a rather nice curry thanks although my beer was vegan apparently!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You responded to a post about ethical treatment of animals without indicating that you were talking about something else (eating meat generally) i think it was fair to assume that you were commenting on the theme of the post and of the thread.

You might want to consider the possibility that the error was at least in part in the writing of your post rather than arrogantly assuming that the fault must lay with the reader.

Perhaps you should learn to write a clear post before criticizing others.

I'm not sure why your inability to read or understand is my problem. Clearly by your posts on this thread and others you're a sandwich short of a picnic !

And you clearly must be mad to live is a shit place like Geelong !

 

[BadFish]

I'm not sure why your inability to read or understand is my problem. Clearly by your posts on this thread and others you're a sandwich short of a picnic !

I answered that in the post you quoted, I am beginning to understand your frustration though

And you clearly must be mad to live is a shit place like Geelong !

You live in Hangleton, you are hardly one to talk old mate.

 

[abc]

on so Alex ethics grounds?

I do not think that we do agree; I see no distinction between choosing to be or being born a vegetarian through religious, health or moral grounds.

You seem to want to ignore the major themes of the argument and insist on getting hung upon specific, so:

Your opinions are incorrect as there are examples in other countries where cattle provide milk and fowl provide eggs but are not slaughtered for food; crops are fertilised by manure from these animals; hundreds of millions of tons of organic fertiliser is produced every year without any assistance from manure.

Try reading the points again in my last post and then you may realise that "your thought processes on this subject have been conditioned and constrained by what has become common farming practice in this country".

I asked you nine questions and you continue to refuse to answer any of them. If you can't support your statements then you can't expect anyone to take them seriously.
You clearly hold an anti meat eating stance. Good for you, as I said at the start I have respect for Vegans. But if you are going to enter a debate with people of a different view to you then try using evidence to support your case rather than adjectives and superlatives. You, me and anyone else reading might actually have reason to review their opinions then.

 

[Diego Napier]

I asked you nine questions and you continue to refuse to answer any of them. If you can't support your statements then you can't expect anyone to take them seriously.
You clearly hold an anti meat eating stance. Good for you, as I said at the start I have respect for Vegans. But if you are going to enter a debate with people of a different view to you then try using evidence to support your case rather than adjectives and superlatives. You, me and anyone else reading might actually have reason to review their opinions then.

Sigh.

9 questions amongst your posts?

Reiterate them for me and I'll play to your obsessive game by answering them

 

[Nottseagull]

...murder of millions of animals.

You seem to think that most of these creatures would have existed anyway. They wouldn't; they are farmed!
It's only due to us carnivors that they have enjoyed any life at all, and many have enjoyed the pleasures of procreation as well!

 

[Nottseagull]

We descend from primates that...

Just in case anyone doesn't realize, we still are primates.