2.5 million animals killed in the UK daily, for food.

[BadFish]

Please explain.

feel free to look it up

 

[piersa]

feel free to look it up

I think perhaps you don't understand. I asked for an explanation not a definition or perhaps you can see what you typed was nonsense?

 

[abc]

Perhaps the fact that your diet is driving you towards a heart attack is somewhat karmic.

I love the taste of meat too, but I choose to eat it somewhat sparingly not just for ethical reasons but also health reasons. I've tried to become pescatarian in the past, but in a culture where meat is the centrepiece of cuisine (and tastes so good) it's too difficult for me! Got so much respect for veggies, very strong willed people.

Why?

Vegans I respect, though I don't agree with them, because they see their beliefs through. Veggies are rather pathetic. They eat dairy products, wear leather, often eat fish even chicken. In short pay lip service to their 'cause'. I will back this up with two facts:

1. A cow has to have a calf to produce milk. If we want milk, cheese etc but we don't eat beef then these calves (which go on to be reared for beef) would be shot at birth. What's the gain in that?

2. Many veggies and vegans will (with good reason I would suggest) choose organic veg. It is not possible to produce organic food without the manures from livestock. So no meat = no organic production = More oil based pesticide and fertilisers = even more miserable veggies.

 

[Triggaaar]

You're nitpicking. If you want to be pedantic, yes we are at the end of an ice age - but I was obviously referring to the glacial period where man was living in a world full of ice & snow and very limited vegetation to the point where practically its entire diet consisted of land mammals. It adapted to eat meat during that time in order to survive, it is believed that before then it lived as a scavenger eating fruit, nuts, eggs and seafood - very much a pescatarian/vegetarian diet. If you don't believe this is true, there is nothing I can do about that, try reading more about the subject.

You're wrong in your interpretation of the facts. Yes, saying that we're still in an ice age is nitpicking, but I'm pointing out that this ice age is a relatively recent thing (2.5 million years or so) and not responsible for us eating meat. You say that prior to the ice age we survived by scavenging on fruit & veg etc, but that's not relevant, as we were already omnivores by that stage. We didn't adapt to eating meat during the ice age (which is your incorrect point), we were already well capable of eating meat - we come from a long line of omnivores.

 

[vegster]

It would be fascinating to know if life had developed slightly differently and say Felines became the dominant intelligent group on Earth, would they farm humans plus maybe Goats and Mice for food ?

 

[Triggaaar]

Quorn is delicious. Why would you eat animals? More power to the vegetarians amongst us.

See the following:

Vegans I respect, though I don't agree with them, because they see their beliefs through. Veggies are rather pathetic. They eat dairy products, wear leather, often eat fish even chicken. In short pay lip service to their 'cause'. I will back this up with two facts:

1. A cow has to have a calf to produce milk. If we want milk, cheese etc but we don't eat beef then these calves (which go on to be reared for beef) would be shot at birth. What's the gain in that?

2. Many veggies and vegans will (with good reason I would suggest) choose organic veg. It is not possible to produce organic food without the manures from livestock. So no meat = no organic production = More oil based pesticide and fertilisers = even more miserable veggies.

Very much this. Veggies are a confused bunch. Doing it for health reasons is fair enough, but if you want to be a veggie to stop the killing of animals, you need to be a vegan. As explained above, dairy products require the killing of male calves etc.

 

[Boroseagull]

 

[Mutts Nuts]

The fact we have the ability to absorb that opinion and form our own as a result, whether in agreement or opposition, is down to hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, fuelled by eating meat to develop our cognitive processes.

I f***ing love bacon.

And sausages i fcuking love sausages

 

[BadFish]

I think perhaps you don't understand. I asked for an explanation not a definition or perhaps you can see what you typed was nonsense?

I don't understand why you would focus on one small part of society when i make the suggestion that perhaps the world would be a better place if other more peaceful religions were more influential than the ones that have. To me your answer smacked more of someone trying to win an argument that engage in discussion as it seem ill thought out and lacked the consideration or the will to understand what i was suggesting. That being the case good luck with trying to change everybodies mind on here, i will continue with my attempts to learn from everybody (even the Jainists who you rather arrogantly use as an insult and suggest are 'oddballs'. Like I say consider your argument won and revel in your victory against someone who so lacks a sense of humour.

 

[piersa]

I don't understand why you would focus on one small part of society when i make the suggestion that perhaps the world would be a better place if other more peaceful religions were more influential than the ones that have. To me your answer smacked more of someone trying to win an argument that engage in discussion as it seem ill thought out and lacked the consideration or the will to understand what i was suggesting. That being the case good luck with trying to change everybodies mind on here, i will continue with my attempts to learn from everybody (even the Jainists who you rather arrogantly use as an insult and suggest are 'oddballs'. Like I say consider your argument won and revel in your victory against someone who so lacks a sense of humour.

You sound like someone who would be great to have a beer with. Jesus. I thought people were chilled out in OZ. Have you ever met a Jainist? I have met several and they are oddballs. I hve met many vegetarians who are odd and mostly hypocrites and some vegans who look like they are about to die. As for religion

 

[BadFish]

You sound like someone who would be great to have a beer with. Jesus. I thought people were chilled out in OZ. Have you ever met a Jainist? I have met several and they are oddballs. I hve met many vegetarians who are odd and mostly hypocrites and some vegans who look like they are about to die. As for religion

To be fair you come across as an arrogant ignorant twat so the chances of us having a beer are thankfully very slim. Although it is possible that I have misread you as much as you have me. I find that internet forums are not really the best places to make judgements on peoples personalities as they tend to either distort things or not give the whole picture or both, but you carry on if it makes you happy.

 

[dingodan]

Do you have special needs?

That's not a very nice thing to say.

 

[BadFish]

I think perhaps you don't understand. I asked for an explanation not a definition or perhaps you can see what you typed was nonsense?

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/broughttolife/themes/war.aspx

I just can never resist.

 

[abc]

1) is the best pro meat eating point I've seen in this thread. Surplus male calves & chickens are definitely a problem with vegetarianism with no practical solution that I'm aware of. Science might one day be able to manipulate the gender of the offspring, but until then something will have to be done with the male animals as long as the dairy & poultry farms exist. I agree with the hypocrisy of vegetarians there, but that could be down to their lack of awareness about the surplus problem. However the vegans could well be right in that these industries are also cruel & unethical too - for example it has been speculated that laying an egg for many or possibly all breeds of chicken is extremely painful. At this moment in time I can't imagine how difficult it would be to have a diet without meat, dairy or eggs - so I have the utmost respect for veggies!

I think 2) is a separate issue and not mutually exclusive with vegetarianism, although many veggies will subscribe to it. Although organic food is regarded as environmentally friendly & healthier it isn't really an issue with much to do with animal welfare, with the exception of the damage to the ecosystems surrounding the farms.

I suppose by giving up meat, taking into account the surplus problem, the only lives veggies are truly saving are the animals which are bred only for food such as pigs - and I think giving up eating swine would be a very good ethical starting point.

The most important thing they are doing is not contributing to the industry - the reality is that if nobody ate meat, the anthropogenic suffering of animals would be minimal

Thank you for a reasoned reply. We might actually be having a debate! NSC? Shock horror!

Just to clear up one thing, it is not just male calves. If you took, say, a herd of 100 cows then the farmer would plan to get c.40 in calf to a dairy (eg Frieisian) breed. This would result in the birth of c. 20 females which would be reared to eventually join his milking herd and 20 males suitable only for veal or low grade beef. The other 60 cows would be in calf to a beef breed (eg Aberdeen Angus) and all the calves whether male or female would be reared for beef. Ie c.80 of calves born, male and female,are reared for beef. So manipulating gender won't help.

Vegetarianism has become something of a blanket expression. Those that don't eat meat for health reasons or because they don't like the taste are not doing so on ethical grounds. I think we tend to mean the latter when using the term so let's assume that is the case here.

If someone is genuinely concerned about the welfare of the animal then surely they should either be a Vegan or take action that will improve animal welfare? We, for example, agree re the dairy issue. So rather than have the calves shot at birth better to buy beef from a welfare friendly system so that the animal has a good life which is surely better than living for a few hours. Vegetarians do NOT help the animals.

Whilst environmental concerns are, I agree, slightly off topic the bigger picture is relevant. Mixed farms and livestock shape our countryside. Arable farms tend to feature huge efficient fields which are sterile for wildlife. Hedges and patchwork fields are a feature of the mixed farm and livestock farms thus tend to be much more biodiverse.

I think what I am getting at is that a world that didn't eat meat would not only not taste so good it wouldn't be so good to live in either!

 

[Diego Napier]

[/B]

Why?

Vegans I respect, though I don't agree with them, because they see their beliefs through. Veggies are rather pathetic. They eat dairy products, wear leather, often eat fish even chicken. In short pay lip service to their 'cause'. I will back this up with two facts:

1. A cow has to have a calf to produce milk. If we want milk, cheese etc but we don't eat beef then these calves (which go on to be reared for beef) would be shot at birth. What's the gain in that?

2. Many veggies and vegans will (with good reason I would suggest) choose organic veg. It is not possible to produce organic food without the manures from livestock. So no meat = no organic production = More oil based pesticide and fertilisers = even more miserable veggies.

The 2 points you make are not facts, they are an amazingly distorted and illogical view of the world.

So in the rather curious world inside your mind there are only 2 options then?

1. Full on meat eater (who eats which animals?)
2. Full on Vegan

Countless millions fall inbetween your black and white view.

 

[piersa]

To be fair you come across as an arrogant ignorant twat so the chances of us having a beer are thankfully very slim. Although it is possible that I have misread you as much as you have me. I find that internet forums are not really the best places to make judgements on peoples personalities as they tend to either distort things or not give the whole picture or both, but you carry on if it makes you happy.

I appreciate your genorosity of spirit. Internet forums are an interperative minefield.

 

[piersa]

That's not a very nice thing to say.

Your post was stupid enough to warrant the question.

 

[chucky1973]

food for thought............how many animals do you think you have eaten in your life, I am 39 and 51 weeks (hint) and I eat meet 365 days of the year. How many animals would that be....i reckon at least 40 chickens a year + all the breasts I buy, god knows how many pigs and Cows...then theres the lamb...

 

[abc]

The 2 points you make are not facts, they are an amazingly distorted and illogical view of the world.

So in the rather curious world inside your mind there are only 2 options then?

1. Full on meat eater (who eats which animals?)
2. Full on Vegan

Countless millions fall inbetween your black and white view.

1. Tell me how they are not facts but are amazingly distorted and illogical views please?

2. If your stance against eating meat is ethical then Vegan is the only non hypocritical option. Of course there are loads of options. You can eat what you like for all I care but vegetarianism does not IMHO stand scrutiny if followed in the name of animal welfare.

 

[dingodan]

Your post was stupid enough to warrant the question.

My post was true.