York Mosque shows the way for all of us

[BadFish]

Their have probably been more radicals from Catholicism to the IRA exacting terrorism on British shores than there ever has from Islam. Not to mention the Catholic churches covering up of decades or systematic child abuse. Religions have their fundamentalists, that does not necessarily mean an entire religion is fundamental or holding to extreme values.

If you want to witness fundamental Christianity, you only have to go on a tour of the US, which has had it's fair number of terrorists acts under that name.

I think you are wrong in your assertion, and that actually many people realise Islam has a problematic extremist element that certainly needs addressing, modernising, integrating, however they also realise that the vast majority of Muslims are law abiding, decent human beings who make a positive contribution to society.

The debate on Islamism and addressing it is being stifled in this country by those that mean to persecute. Anyone who thinks the EDL have any kind of support of anyone but the small minded is wrong.

Well said. The line between normal decent Muslims and the extremist is constantly blurred by people on both sides who seemingly want to stir the pot. I just don't see how picking a side and perpetuating this blur is going to achieve anything.

 

[daveinprague]

The EDL was formed because of troops being abused on their homecoming by MAC... MAC was banned...it was never formed to 'look into Islam'...they said they were against radical Islam... who isnt exactly? Im against it, Im also against British fascists exploiting this boys death for its own political benefit. It has now moved on to 'burn paki scum', chants of Allah is a paedo, ...who the feck is Allah... obviously an attempt to antaognise all muslims...why?

 

[Soulman]

This maybe so but that doesn't make the EDL any less repulsive than they always have been. I hope that the bulk of the British public would be a little more choosy about who they allow to represent them, I know the ones I know will not be running into the arms of far right organisations, even the ones on the right wing!

i continue to be surprised at your readiness to defend and support the EDL, I thought you were better than that. (yes yes I know stop pigeonholing you and trying to put you in a box). I have had some cracking debates with you on here and have disagreed with much you have said but always assumed you were decent and intelligent. It concerns me greatly that you have chosen the EDL as the source of the answer to the question of extremist Islam........... I also think you are quite, quite wrong.

Fighting hate with hate can surely only end with one thing.

No it does not "make the EDL any less repulsive than they always have been" but can you not see that even though many many people hold views close to those of the EDL, without the violence, they are either silenced or then just put down as supporters of the EDL. It is a no win situation for ordinary people that are annoyed and concerned with the lack of action against the radicals.
An example being that even though many people turned out across the country to pay there respects the UAF and others were out to disrupt and shout abuse.
You stated " It concerns me greatly that you have chosen the EDL as the source of the answer to the question of extremist Islam"....AS i am not a member, have never been near a demo, do not personally know any members.....then your concern (thanks for that) is why so many people have many of the same opinions without having to be a member.
I think the answer is in the statement by Mr Harris that i posted, the Labour front bencher.......is he an others that say their views also members of the EDL.
Is everyone that disagrees with my opinion members of the counter demonstrators against the EDL......of course not, they may just have some of the same opinions.

 

[Soulman]

The EDL was formed because of troops being abused on their homecoming by MAC... MAC was banned...it was never formed to 'look into Islam'...they said they were against radical Islam... who isnt exactly? Im against it, Im also against British fascists exploiting this boys death for its own political benefit. It has now moved on to 'burn paki scum', chants of Allah is a paedo, ...who the feck is Allah... obviously an attempt to antaognise all muslims...why?

Muslim Against Crusades was banned but then just started up under a different name, probably as you are well aware....keep digging.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Yes, i agree but, why was the EDL formed. If the government had done something about the radical Muslim problem, not admitted that this problem had existed for years but was hidden so as not to offend those that are easily offended, then the EDL would not be in the way of those that wish to debate.
Meanwhile we have oposers to the EDL that are government backed and funded, the UAF......that does not look like the government are tackling the problem to me.

Do you think then that if the EDL were not around, then debate would happen, even though it has been admitted that it has been brushed under the carpet at least 10 years BEFORE the EDL were formed. Seems to me the scapegoat is in position.

No, I clearly said that groups like the EDL stifle debate, as they create headlines instead of meaningful dialogue. Any debate on religion is difficult. We are a secular society respectful of people's beliefs.

As a complete atheist, I feel no differently in reality to Christianity than I do Islam. Simon Breivik murdered 77 people in Norway based on his Christian values. The US has several Christian militia groups such as the Hutaree that were convicted of preparing to use improvised explosives. Abortion doctors have been murdered and attacked by Christian groups. Religions have their extremists.

Religion is itself a problem and has always been difficult to deal with at State level.

The EDL is far from a scapegoat, they are just a group of racist idiots for all to see.

 

[BadFish]

No it does not "make the EDL any less repulsive than they always have been" but can you not see that even though many many people hold views close to those of the EDL, without the violence, they are either silenced or then just put down as supporters of the EDL. It is a no win situation for ordinary people that are annoyed and concerned with the lack of action against the radicals.
An example being that even though many people turned out across the country to pay there respects the UAF and others were out to disrupt and shout abuse.
You stated " It concerns me greatly that you have chosen the EDL as the source of the answer to the question of extremist Islam"....AS i am not a member, have never been near a demo, do not personally know any members.....then your concern (thanks for that) is why so many people have many of the same opinions without having to be a member.
I think the answer is in the statement by Mr Harris that i posted, the Labour front bencher.......is he an others that say their views also members of the EDL.
Is everyone that disagrees with my opinion members of the counter demonstrators against the EDL......of course not, they may just have some of the same opinions.

If this is the case would you not be better off talking about your opinions and having the discussion you crave instead of spending your time defending the EDL?

What are the opinions that you share with the EDL?

My concern is that you seem to think that the EDL are able to provide the best answer to the problem.

 

[daveinprague]

Maybe a different political group could be formed, that didnt include known racists, and neo fascists to 'speak for us'?

 

[daveinprague]

Muslim Against Crusades was banned but then just started up under a different name, probably as you are well aware....keep digging.

Whats it called now?

 

[Soulman]

Whats it called now?

Just have a look at the faces from the MAC days, and you will see the same faces at the Radical demos. They use a few different names actually, just do some research.

 

[daveinprague]

Whats it called now as I 'should know'...

Ive seen the same EDL faces, at NF, BNP events, but apparently as they now oppose all of Islam, they are ok.

 

[Soulman]

If this is the case would you not be better off talking about your opinions and having the discussion you crave instead of spending your time defending the EDL?

What are the opinions that you share with the EDL?

My concern is that you seem to think that the EDL are able to provide the best answer to the problem.

So, you ask more questions. How about addressing and answering the points in the post.

 

[Soulman]

Whats it called now as I 'should know'...

Ive seen the same EDL faces, at NF, BNP events, but apparently as they now oppose all of Islam, they are ok.

You probably have seen the same faces. So how many counter demos have you been to?

 

[daveinprague]

for EDL...just a couple... not sure of the relevance?

 

[BadFish]

So, you ask more questions. How about addressing and answering the points in the post.

I answered the ones i understood.

What do you want to know?

What is wrong with asking questions? I am interested.

 

[Questions]

I think anyone who is religious is a fundamentalist......... Or a looney if you like.

 

[Soulman]

This maybe so but that doesn't make the EDL any less repulsive than they always have been. I hope that the bulk of the British public would be a little more choosy about who they allow to represent them, I know the ones I know will not be running into the arms of far right organisations, even the ones on the right wing!

i continue to be surprised at your readiness to defend and support the EDL, I thought you were better than that. (yes yes I know stop pigeonholing you and trying to put you in a box). I have had some cracking debates with you on here and have disagreed with much you have said but always assumed you were decent and intelligent. It concerns me greatly that you have chosen the EDL as the source of the answer to the question of extremist Islam........... I also think you are quite, quite wrong.

Fighting hate with hate can surely only end with one thing.

Iv'e just read this again. Was the post mean't to be patronising, or did it just come across that way to me?
I agree that "
Fighting hate with hate can surely only end with one thing".[/QUOTE]
Which is why the problem of radical extremists in this country, who openly spout bile, blow up buses and trains, kill an off duty soldier in his own country, push for their own laws and no go areas etc etc.....needs to be stopped.
If this was adddressed and the EDL were stopped, then i for one would be happy, because the problem would at last have been dealt with. Then hopefully all the faiths and colours who do integrate, do rub along nicely in this country, will be happy.

 

[Nibble]

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showt...y-screwed-up!/page3&highlight=Ronnie+Sullivan

Here is the original thread where @bushy is exposed as a bull shitter. I would like to draw particular attention to post #50; where @bushy accuses me of "judicious editing." It would appear he has now back-tracked on this as his new version of events is closer to what I have been saying. Yet more @bushy bull shitting.

And it is nothing to do with me getting braver. It's more to do with your constant fibs about what happened and me finally wanting to set the record straight. And further to this I gave you my mobile number on 5/4/11, asked you to call me, and told you I could be found in The Albert after every home game. Given you have been wanting to "catch up with me" for so long I will leave you to tell everyone why you have not bothered to do this given you know my contact details and post match movements for the past 4 years. All this macho crap about "catching up with me" is just bull shit so please stop puffing out your chest because you're full of shit and never walk the talk; you have been able to contact me for years.

Oh. And this is not me engaging in any macho behaviour, it's not my style. Please see post #56 in the link.

I had the same type of rhetoric, a few months back , I quote, "you spiteful **** , i will without doubt find you and have you say that to my face, you've bitten off more than you can chew now". etc on my PM. All air pie and breezy soup as he didn't go as far as turning up at my house, or catching up with me, or indeed doing much else at all once I told him to calm down. Let's face it, he's a soft handed financier from Haywards Heath, not much to get concerned about. He knows what he did, we all do.

 

[Soulman]

Just have a look at the faces from the MAC days, and you will see the same faces at the Radical demos. They use a few different names actually, just do some research.

Al-Muhajiroun
Al Ghurabaa
Islam4UK
Call to Submission
Islamic Path
London School of Sharia
The Saved Sect or Saviour Sect

 

[BadFish]

Iv'e just read this again. Was the post mean't to be patronising, or did it just come across that way to me?
I agree that "
Fighting hate with hate can surely only end with one thing".
Which is why the problem of radical extremists in this country, who openly spout bile, blow up buses and trains, kill an off duty soldier in his own country, push for their own laws and no go areas etc etc.....needs to be stopped.
If this was adddressed and the EDL were stopped, then i for one would be happy, because the problem would at last have been dealt with. Then hopefully all the faiths and colours who do integrate, do rub along nicely in this country, will be happy.

Not meant to be patronizing, may have come across like that, if it did i apologise.

I have to say though, I am confused about your feelings towards the EDL.

You want radical Islam stopped. You are not a member of the EDL but you do agree with some of their views.

You don't want to tell me so I guess we will leave it there.

Have a good day.

 

[daveinprague]

cool... I would imagine those groups, in their entirety, amount to what? 100? 200 lulu's?

What are the things you share with EDL then?