What was the argy-bargy in the South Stand about then?

[dannyboy]

he has a point

no he doesnt read my reply to him

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

What part of the phrase " All Seater Stadium" is so difficult to understand please?

try telling that to the away fans at Withdean

 

[Pot noodles for everyone]

I've got a point. It's usually floppy but you can give it a tickle and see what happens if you like.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

How unbelievably pompous and condescending you sound e.g. "The rules say this and that and even though the majority disagree the rules must be obeyed because they're on a piece of paper blah blah....." Perhaps you've forgotten what it was to be young? Well get this sherlock, ever heard the adage that rules are there to be broken? This is one of those cases, more so because it's not applied consistently. If they were, then you'd have a better argument. As representatives, the stewards do not have to be as ridiculous as some behave for the simple fact that around the country many don't. We know they're the cause of many people not coming to Withdean anymore, and detracting from may others enjoyment on match days. So there's an issue there that the club ought to address, but never seem to listen. Approaching this subject with your legalistic, pompous rhetoric serves no value whatsoever.

Sigh ... if only the modern education system taught you to understand rather than just read !!!

Where did I say don't challenge the rules ?? I didn't !!! What I was infering ( and maybe I should have spelt it out rather than assuming you had the intelligence to work it out ) was that you should challenge the people that MAKE the rules not the people that ENFORCE the rules. The STEWARDS aren't the cause for people not coming to Withdean - the RULES are.

I don't agree with the 70mph limit on motorways but if I get caught speeding then I fully expect to get the punishment. If you can't do the time then don't do the crime !

 

[Questions]

2 instances last night. Firstly a chap in his seventies - I hazard a guess - being told not to stand on the steps whilst he stopped for a split second during the first half as we mounted a rare attack and then a lad of 13 /14 being moved along as he watched momentarily from the running track with about 20 minutes to go on his way back from wherever.

You`d have to be a moron wouldn`t you to do that job ?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

2 instances last night. Firstly a chap in his seventies - I hazard a guess - being told not to stand on the steps whilst he stopped for a split second during the first half as we mounted a rare attack and then a lad of 13 /14 being moved along as he watched momentarily from the running track with about 20 minutes to go on his way back from wherever.

You`d have to be a moron wouldn`t you to do that job ?

But they are morons.

 

[One True BHA]

really..........

Talking about some of the kids.

 

[One True BHA]

more of a cp company man myself these days one true bha.

been wearing SI for over 20 years. my fashion has never stopped me supporting bha, in every way....

suppose now i will be called a nuckle dragger!!!

Nothing wrong with CP.

 

[portlock seagull]

Sigh ... if only the modern education system taught you to understand rather than just read !!!

Where did I say don't challenge the rules ?? I didn't !!! What I was infering ( and maybe I should have spelt it out rather than assuming you had the intelligence to work it out ) was that you should challenge the people that MAKE the rules not the people that ENFORCE the rules. The STEWARDS aren't the cause for people not coming to Withdean - the RULES are.

I don't agree with the 70mph limit on motorways but if I get caught speeding then I fully expect to get the punishment. If you can't do the time then don't do the crime !

Again. What pompous condescending rubbish. And now insulting. You can't help doing that can you? Which is far more a sign of lower intelligence as a rule. My bit in quotations was meant to infer you're just one of those annoying 'rules is rules' type characters that Al Murray, Harry Enfield etc do so well (key word to pick up on is you're very annoying, a view shared by others on this board my the looks of it). But a side from this and sounding pompous and self-important, you're still ducking the inconsistency comments I and many others have made which ruin what you've scrapped together as an argument. If you're up to the challenge, go for it. Otherwise stick to your own little world, which I must say, must be far duller than the one we're all trying to create at Withdean.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

So few fans ever sit down in the away end the club might as well rip out the seats and install terraces. Completely understandable why home fans get the hump.

 

[The Spanish]

its becoming the norm now though, a more relaxed approach to away fans standing. saves hassle from although a smaller number generally more likely to be pissed up and showing off, makes no real f***ing odds if they can at least show they made an effort.

I know for a fact orient have for one told their stewards to turn a blind eye this season on the advice of the police.

the next step is standing areas. it will happen one day in this country, i am sure of it. or at least i am hoping so. we still have a lot of dust to settle from the eighties though.

 

[Jamon Jamon]

So few fans ever sit down in the away end the club might as well rip out the seats and install terraces. Completely understandable why home fans get the hump.

I don't understand why home fans are getting 'the hump'.
if I was an away fan, travelling 150-200 miles, paying £25 to then be told to sit down at pitch level in the (inevitable) pissin hard rain,half a mile from the action, I'd be the one with the hump. Where's the respect for our fellow, albeit opposing fans when those in the Albion end who like to travel to away matches behave as they like (how many sat down at Luton last April?) but then scream like babies "mer mer mer why don't you make the away fans sit down wah wah wah etc" it's embarrassing



.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

spot on jamon to think that 20 odd years ago it would take half of john street on OT to keep some semblance of order. now someone farts and you have the busybodies grassing to some spastic in a hi vis jacket like its f***ing glyndebourne and someone has stolen their spot on the grass.

football is f***ing dead. plenty of reasons for that, but f***ing hell some football fans dont half collaborate with those with their boot on its neck.

i've seen it first hand fella

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Talking about some of the kids.

i know ,its a learning curve for them

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

if I was an away fan, travelling 150-200 miles, paying £25 to then be told to sit down at pitch level in the (inevitable) pissin hard rain,half a mile from the action, I'd be the one with the hump. Where's the respect for our fellow, albeit opposing fans when those in the Albion end who like to travel to away matches behave as they like (how many sat down at Luton last April?) but then scream like babies "mer mer mer why don't you make the away fans sit down wah wah wah etc" it's embarrassing

A lot of good points there, and hard to argue with any of them.

But home fans have also paid up to £25 to sit in the rain - every home game - and are surely entitled to some of the same respect.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Again. What pompous condescending rubbish. And now insulting. You can't help doing that can you? Which is far more a sign of lower intelligence as a rule. My bit in quotations was meant to infer you're just one of those annoying 'rules is rules' type characters that Al Murray, Harry Enfield etc do so well (key word to pick up on is you're very annoying, a view shared by others on this board my the looks of it). But a side from this and sounding pompous and self-important, you're still ducking the inconsistency comments I and many others have made which ruin what you've scrapped together as an argument. If you're up to the challenge, go for it. Otherwise stick to your own little world, which I must say, must be far duller than the one we're all trying to create at Withdean.

No where have I said or implied rules are rules. What I've said is that you're challenging the wrong people. If I don't agree with a law it's pretty much a waste of time challenging it with my local beat bobby - I need to go further up the chain.

Unfortunately there's plenty of people who attend Withdean who blame the rules on the stewards rather than the rule makers. It won't change the rules by winding up or being bloody minded with the stewards.

I agree there are double standards and there shouldn't be. Part of it is the sheer praticality of policing it. Chuck out an away supporter and that's all that happens - chuck out a home supporter who refuses to sit and there's a reasonable chance the club will have their name and address and ban them or remove their season ticket. Is it right - NO, are the stewards to blame - NO, is consistant standing going to change the rules - NO, is a concerted campaign via the club, FA, League and your MP going to change the rules - unlikely but it's much more possible via those channels than steward baiting.

If that's pompus then so be it - if you read back you'll note you were the first one to start the insults calling me pompus ( it's hardly a compliment ! ) - not that I care what you think of me anyway.

 

[Jamon Jamon]

A lot of good points there, and hard to argue with any of them.

But home fans have also paid up to £25 to sit in the rain - every home game - and are surely entitled to some of the same respect.

again fair point THPP but one of the points i'm raising is can the away fans see the match if they are seated (esp first few rows)?


.

 

[NMH]

No where have I said or implied rules are rules. What I've said is that you're challenging the wrong people. If I don't agree with a law it's pretty much a waste of time challenging it with my local beat bobby - I need to go further up the chain.

Unfortunately there's plenty of people who attend Withdean who blame the rules on the stewards rather than the rule makers. It won't change the rules by winding up or being bloody minded with the stewards.

I agree there are double standards and there shouldn't be. Part of it is the sheer praticality of policing it. Chuck out an away supporter and that's all that happens - chuck out a home supporter who refuses to sit and there's a reasonable chance the club will have their name and address and ban them or remove their season ticket. Is it right - NO, are the stewards to blame - NO, is consistant standing going to change the rules - NO, is a concerted campaign via the club, FA, League and your MP going to change the rules - unlikely but it's much more possible via those channels than steward baiting.

If that's pompus then so be it - if you read back you'll note you were the first one to start the insults calling me pompus ( it's hardly a compliment ! ) - not that I care what you think of me anyway.

Nail hit on head. Sadly though, most of these would rather swing the hammer wildly and hit the easiest targets.

The way to actually enjoy watching, singing, and celebrating, is to sit, and maybe do the natural thing when something's happening worth getting excited about (which means a lot of sitting!). Caring about how the away supporters act or are stewarded, is futile and irrelevant. Fact.

The safety issues, and social issues, are stringently examined and enforced at Withdean. It really is the better policy actually, for all concerned. Those stands aren't the best for surging forward in, or huddling/crowding areas more than others, shambling into aisles where some might actually need access, or generally acting in a disorderly manner. As a CROWD, people have different dangers than as individuals - this has been researched and observed over centuries, and it's scrutinized to the nth degree in football. Every individual is 'an example' to the rest of the crowd - EVERY individual!

Good advice;-
Go along with the rules.
Forget "what the away fans are doing and getting away with".
Act as a good example, much as it may irk you to accede to authority and uniforms.
Stewards DO have to do as required, and DO have to enforce the rules - but the rules ARE there for good reason, not just to dampen your spirits.

You can believe it or not, but if you decide not to comply then you do 100% leave absolutely no option but to eject you from the proceedings. Contrary to some beliefs here, stewards certainly DO NOT enjoy throwing people out of the stadium!! FACT. The cameras are on the stands, observers see what is going on and who is ignoring rules, and then stewards are told what they have to do, just like you! It's not an 'us vs them' thing either - many of the stewards are Albion fans , feeling that working for the club and the supporters is a worthy and valuable work. (It is NOT likely that many do it for the money!! ). Loads of them might otherwise be making more money working somewhere else, or sitting in the stands watching the match.


Sorry, but regardless of whatever insults you bandy around this does not change. Reasoning with the rules is not in a steward's domain either. I won't be repugnant in saying "go tell your story walking" or "talk to the hand", but Westdene Seagull has said it rather succinctly and is, simply, right.

You could take any questions and complaints to higher authorities, and give your opinions to them in the best way you can find (i.e. not shouting insults at them or declaring your lack of interest in their answer!), and you might learn code numbers, bylaws, legal acts, past disaster cases, or meanings of things in the handbooks. I sincerely doubt you will change anything - but good luck trying.

Now if you'll excuse me, I must go back to my ordinary low-visibility human existence.

 

[Spider]

No where have I said or implied rules are rules. What I've said is that you're challenging the wrong people. If I don't agree with a law it's pretty much a waste of time challenging it with my local beat bobby - I need to go further up the chain.

Unfortunately there's plenty of people who attend Withdean who blame the rules on the stewards rather than the rule makers. It won't change the rules by winding up or being bloody minded with the stewards.

I agree there are double standards and there shouldn't be. Part of it is the sheer praticality of policing it. Chuck out an away supporter and that's all that happens - chuck out a home supporter who refuses to sit and there's a reasonable chance the club will have their name and address and ban them or remove their season ticket. Is it right - NO, are the stewards to blame - NO, is consistant standing going to change the rules - NO, is a concerted campaign via the club, FA, League and your MP going to change the rules - unlikely but it's much more possible via those channels than steward baiting.

If that's pompus then so be it - if you read back you'll note you were the first one to start the insults calling me pompus ( it's hardly a compliment ! ) - not that I care what you think of me anyway.

Technically you're correct, but I think you know as well as most that in reality it doesn't work like that. Brighton fans away stand up whenever possible, as do most clubs. A lot of clubs have sections of home fans that stand as well. I'm not the most well travelled supporter but I do know that out of all the stewards I've seen the Withdean stewards are by far the most Draconian. You would argue that they are simply doing their jobs, in which case are all stewards who don't make people sit down not doing theirs? I believe the stewards should simply exercise a degree of common sense - it doesn't help when people claim that stewards seem to visibly take pleasure from applying the unreasonable rules.

I think everyone understands what you're saying, but I don't think it's really practical. I can't believe people moan about the away fans standing - don't you feel sorry for them having to sit miles away over there having paid £23? Them standing up just means they've won the battle against the stewards whilst the home fans haven't. I've seen plenty of occasions where the singing stand has been on their feet all match.

Which reminds me of the Swindon Play Off Semi Final match. I was in Block G for that match and we stood the whole way through the game along with almost the entire block - it was also the best Withers atmosphere ever. I wonder what made people willing to stand then but never since.

 

[NMH]

again fair point THPP but one of the points i'm raising is can the away fans see the match if they are seated (esp first few rows)?


.

It's an absolutely CRAP view, however they position their bodies. I have worked in that area - and you would NOT like being there for the game. Often, you can't tell whether the ball is heading toward or away from you, and if it hits our net at the East end, their fans usually have to wait for players seen distantly celebrating before they can know it's a goal and cheer about it.
I feel sorrier for them having paid good lolly and made the trip - I'd rather their trip wasn't made more worthwhile by us losing, though.