Well Done UKIP.

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Yes and those celebrating the UKIP vote should bear this in mind - the BNP vote went down about 6 or 7% so it is likely that about 6% of the UKIP vote is ex BNP. How does that make you all feel?

How do you know for certain that the ex BNP voters have all voted UKIP this time and haven't switched their vote back to the Conservatives where many have their roots ?

 

[drew]

True, unfortunately - but their position would be a lot less tenable were in not for the enthusiasm for the EU in the newly joined Eastern European states - the main beneficiaries of EU membership. From the BBC website:

Opinion polls suggest a growth in Euroscepticism across Europe.

In eurozone bailout countries - especially Greece, Cyprus and Portugal - the tough austerity terms imposed by the EU and International Monetary Fund have translated into negative feelings about "diktat" from Brussels.

In many countries, parties that want to reclaim powers from Brussels are more popular than ever. Notable among them is UKIP, which wants to pull the UK out of the EU. France and the Netherlands - founder members of the EU - have also seen a big swing towards Eurosceptic parties.

Chart showing how people view the EU
View attachment 54272

Negative feelings about the EU also translate into a high abstention rate at European elections. Turnout has fallen at every poll since the first in 1979. Many voters complain that they simply do not understand what goes on in Brussels, so they feel disengaged.

a) Can't open the attachment!

b) Your comment about negative feelings doesn't logically correlate with lower turnout. If people have negative feelings towards the EU you would naturally expect them to vote for those parties actively promoting withdrawal from the EU, in whatever country they are in. I would expect feelings of indifference to result in lower turnout.

 

[Soulman]

That's Labour supporters for you.Well done to ukip and the other right wing parties across Europe

An interviewer was asking people in North Nottinghamshire who they voted for. One lady said Labour, the interviewer asked why and she said her grandfather and father always voted Labour....one of the 25% i'd hazard a guess.

 

[cunning fergus]

Clearly it is more than voters that baffle me.

So voters protest about politicians who do nothing and the net result is that they bring in a bunch of politicians to do even less?

Meanwhile as the good old Brits sit around drinking beer and smoking fags, Europe is dismantled brick by brick, by a bunch of Frenchmen with no trousers, who angrily man the barricades.

I think you are missing the point.

For those supporting UKIP I suspect they don't care a jot about how UKIP MEPs discharge their EU parliamentary duties because they don't agree with the EU (at the very least least in its current form). Whilst it is not directly comparable the principle is similar and republican voters in NI who elected Sinn Fein MPs; they equally did not care that they never took their place in Parliament.

It is ironic that the UK is now sending more UKIP MEPs to Brussels as oppose to enthusiastic Lib Dems who would gladly contribute in whatever way they could to maintain and deepen the EU project, however that is the unequivocal message that has been sent to the EU by the UK electorate.

Unfortunately, like many pro European enthusiasts, the EU is not good in dealing with democracy, as previous referendums have demonstrated. Little wonder the institution is so unpopular. On past performance there is little indication that they will pay any attention to this election and will likely barrel onwards with their master plan for a federal state regardless. To be honest for the EU there is no plan B, it's all or nothing.

If they do press on this will cause even greater resentment, particularly with the elected Govts in France and the UK who will be punished if the electorate think they are being weak with the EU.

Like I said in this climate the EU wreckers could be La Belle Francais, Hollande is like Clegg a busted flush, so he has to look strong now for any chance of recovery, certainly the demand for greater integration for the EZ looks challenging after last night. Even then if the FN get their way the EU is dead..........Vive la France!!

 

[drew]

That's Labour supporters for you.Well done to ukip and the other right wing parties across Europe

Not sure what your reference to Labour is trying to imply unless you are suggesting that the 25% are all labour voters! On BBC Breakfast they were reporting from a market and got a few comments from people who voted UKIP along the usual lines of keeping Britain British but they asked one stall holder who said he had voted UKIP why he had done so and he had no answer!

Edit. Just seen post 204 so assume you were referring to that. However, that comment about voting labour would apply to some voters of most parties.

 

[Hamilton]

That's Labour supporters for you.Well done to ukip and the other right wing parties across Europe

Not really.

As I've pointed out on several posts there's lots to change. UKIP don't have the answers.

 

[Footsoldier]

UKIP don't have the answers.

And you think the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems have?

 

[GT49er]

a) Can't open the attachment!

b) Your comment about negative feelings doesn't logically correlate with lower turnout. If people have negative feelings towards the EU you would naturally expect them to vote for those parties actively promoting withdrawal from the EU, in whatever country they are in. I would expect feelings of indifference to result in lower turnout.

a). Apologies - the graphic wouldn't come across with the text when I cut and pasted. Tried to upload it as a picture - but guess that just didn't work.

b). the comment you are criticising is from the BBC, not me.

This link should take you to an article containing the graphic: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27462683

 

[drew]

a). Apologies - the graphic wouldn't come across with the text when I cut and pasted. Tried to upload it as a picture - but guess that just didn't work.

b). the comment you are criticising is from the BBC, not me.

This link should take you to an article containing the graphic: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27462683

Thanks.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Yes and those celebrating the UKIP vote should bear this in mind - the BNP vote went down about 6 or 7% so it is likely that about 6% of the UKIP vote is ex BNP. How does that make you all feel?

It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I note that UKIP is targeting 20 parliamentary constituencies for 2015.

That's rather like saying to those places: "We believe you are the most racist, homophobic, xenophobic, narrow-minded, ignorant communities in Britain."

The people of Thanet, Great Yarmouth, P*rtsm**th South (which must include Nottarf Krap, mustn't it?), Thurrock, Basildon and the rest must be very proud.

Being currently resident in Essex I can confirm that it is xenophobic, homophobic narrow minded and ignorant around here.

Perhaps it is also true that the demographic in Basildon, Thurrock and the other "new" towns are the previous inhabitants of the East End who left London in their hordes when the slums and the bomb sites were cleared after the war. They are working class, proud to be British (whatever that means) and very patriotic ( st George's crosses abound)

They tend to be very straightforward in their views on immigration, multiculturalism and all that that entails. It's not liberally minded like Brighton...not by a long chalk, but it's also thankfully free of fake middle class dicks.

They are also a very reliable bellwether for the mood of the country. It says a lot that they are backing anti immigration and anti EU parties like UKIP. It signals a change in our national mood.

 

[looney]

Oh dear. America, being the same country does not make a good comparison. There are many different cultures there but there is one mainstream defining cultural identity. This allows for a far easier integration of economic migrants from one part to another to satisfy the demands of the labour market. The problem we have in Europe in this regard is that there is no dominant single cultural identity, let alone language.

The thing is, and maybe I should have quoted an earlier post, America is the touchstone in all this. The single currency is based on Robert Flemings Nobel winning thesis of an Optimal Currency Area which was based on the US economy, this is underpinned by the concepts of the free movement of Capital and Labour.

The flaws are when you apply this to the UK. In the US you have a highly transient population, boom towns and ghost towns. This doesn't translate well to a well settled densley populated country like the UK. It means a collapse in things like, social mobility, standard of living and quality of life. Sparsley populated countries in this system risk similar and opposite problems, labour shortages, inflation or economic collapse.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The thing is, and maybe I should have quoted an earlier post, America is the touchstone in all this. The single currency is based on Robert Flemings Nobel winning thesis of an Optimal Currency Area which was based on the US economy, this is underpinned by the concepts of the free movement of Capital and Labour.

The flaws are when you apply this to the UK. In the US you have a highly transient population, boom towns and ghost towns. This doesn't translate well to a well settled densley populated country like the UK. It means a collapse in things like, social mobility, standard of living and quality of life. Sparsley populated countries in this system risk similar and opposite problems, labour shortages, inflation or economic collapse.

Agreed. There are too many disimilarities between overcrowded and overpopulated western Europe and the U.S. I think, whatever the prevailing politics are, these points highlight why the Euro and dreams of a single European state are doomed to fail. The founding fathers and perhaps those that came after in the 70's and 80's like Kohl and Mitterrand along with the likes of Jaques Delores, sacrificed what could have been a very good and beneficial European trading community on the altar of ever closer political integration. I believe their 'one size fits all' mentality, along with their disregard for national sensitivities have genuinely endangered the region and encouraged the rise of the far right.

 

[yxee]

Yes, we only need to look at America as an example. Texas has the same currency as Rhode island, and the US dollar has become WORTHLESS.

On the downside, they did have quite a large civil war to sort out the differences between different member states...

 

[Leighgull]

Being currently resident in Essex I can confirm that it is xenophobic, homophobic narrow minded and ignorant around here.

Perhaps it is also true that the demographic in Basildon, Thurrock and the other "new" towns are the previous inhabitants of the East End who left London in their hordes when the slums and the bomb sites were cleared after the war. They are working class, proud to be British (whatever that means) and very patriotic ( st George's crosses abound)

They tend to be very straightforward in their views on immigration, multiculturalism and all that that entails. It's not liberally minded like Brighton...not by a long chalk, but it's also thankfully free of fake middle class dicks.

They are also a very reliable bellwether for the mood of the country. It says a lot that they are backing anti immigration and anti EU parties like UKIP. It signals a change in our national mood.

Agreed. I was horrified when I moved here from Brighton. The big difference here is that a lot of the Essex folk are really east Londoners who have never left Bethnal Green in their minds. To the older generation it is absolutely horrifying that "their' city has now become a multi ethnic slum and they have passed their views on to the next generation. It is not something that affects Brighton so much as Sussex attracts Londoners from (typically) the more affluent areas which have not been changed so dramatically. Brighton also prides itself on its "tolerance" and libertarian airs.

To my mind the people if Essex are less far up their own arses than Brightonians. It is true (clearly) that the vast majority of Brits are fed up to the back teeth of huge immigration and EU legal impositions on our national life. Honestly, I mean really honestly is anyone in favour uncontrolled inward migration? Seriously...does anyone think that the UK is incapable of deciding for itself how best to run its legal systems and its borders?

Anyway. UKIP. Has succeeded in forcing the national debate. Has given voice to millions of Brits who were being lectured to and told to just shut up and take whatever we were told. And to that end...good.

 

[withdeanwombat]

The people have spoken. The whole concept of the EU is fatally flawed. The Euro can't work with different sized economies. Staying in will just drag us down. Time to make Britain Great again.

I was in a one policy party once upon a time. The Seagulls Party never challenged for national honours, though, and neither will UKIP.

 

[BadFish]

And you think the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems have?

Noone has all the answers but the Greens are the only party to have any kind of laudable philopsophy. The greatest shame of all of this is that people did not consider the environment, the distribution of wealth and the notion of looking after the less fortunate members of society when they made their 'protest' against the major parties.

 

[BadFish]

Agreed. There are too many disimilarities between overcrowded and overpopulated western Europe and the U.S. I think, whatever the prevailing politics are, these points highlight why the Euro and dreams of a single European state are doomed to fail. The founding fathers and perhaps those that came after in the 70's and 80's like Kohl and Mitterrand along with the likes of Jaques Delores, sacrificed what could have been a very good and beneficial European trading community on the altar of ever closer political integration. I believe their 'one size fits all' mentality, along with their disregard for national sensitivities have genuinely endangered the region and encouraged the rise of the far right.

This may be one similarity between the two.

 

[User removed 4]

Agreed. I was horrified when I moved here from Brighton. The big difference here is that a lot of the Essex folk are really east Londoners who have never left Bethnal Green in their minds. To the older generation it is absolutely horrifying that "their' city has now become a multi ethnic slum and they have passed their views on to the next generation. It is not something that affects Brighton so much as Sussex attracts Londoners from (typically) the more affluent areas which have not been changed so dramatically. Brighton also prides itself on its "tolerance" and libertarian airs.

To my mind the people if Essex are less far up their own arses than Brightonians. It is true (clearly) that the vast majority of Brits are fed up to the back teeth of huge immigration and EU legal impositions on our national life. Honestly, I mean really honestly is anyone in favour uncontrolled inward migration? Seriously...does anyone think that the UK is incapable of deciding for itself how best to run its legal systems and its borders?

Anyway. UKIP. Has succeeded in forcing the national debate. Has given voice to millions of Brits who were being lectured to and told to just shut up and take whatever we were told. And to that end...good.

I'd disagree, I'd say its that there are more new towns such as Basildon, Chelmsford etc in Essex, if you talk to people in Crawley you'll find the prevailing attitude similar to Essex.

 

[The Spanish]

On the downside, they did have quite a large civil war to sort out the differences between different member states...

Europe's one that led eventually to the EU was a bit bigger