[Misc] Weight loss jabs - Mounjaro, Wegovy etc.

[Half Time Pies]

I think of the 5:2 as a sustained initial effort to shed the bulk of the weight, something folk might start in January as an example. Not something that can be sustained over a lifetime, nor is it designed to be. It worked for Dr Mosley who started off in danger of an early death like his father, then for many of his readers.

Most people probably wouldn’t be willing to go through the anguish of an entire daytime with no food.

It's a while since I did the diet but I remember trying some form of ongoing fasting after losing the weight as it was suggested that this was a possible way to keep the weight off long term. Its just one example really though of a long list of things I have tried, none of which have worked because although they helped me lose weight initially they didn't change my relationship with food.

 

[Weststander]

It's a while since I did the diet but I remember trying some form of ongoing fasting after losing the weight as it was suggested that this was a possible way to keep the weight off long term. Its just one example really though of a long list of things I have tried, none of which have worked because although they helped me lose weight initially they didn't change my relationship with food.

The beauty of the 5:2 is that you can eat things you really like during the 5. Within reason .

My experience of fasting is that it really does work.

But the weight loss from any diet can be completely undone by periods of comfort or habitual eating of unhealthy foods. The old enemy of carbs.

 

[Professor Plum]

I didn't have time to read the whole thread so I missed that. For me the biggest problem is that a lot of the diet industry ignores the fact that for many people there is an emotional element to overeating and for some this can even develop in to a addiction as powerful and difficult to overcome as alcohol, gambling or drug addictions. For example I just saw @Thunder Bolt mentioned the fast 800 prescription for continuing to maintain weight as fasting at 5/2 on an ongoing basis, I tried that but had zero chance of maintaining it on a ongoing basis because of my relationship with food, I have a busy life, have ADHD, forget to eat, grab food on the run, I turn to food for comfort when I'm stressed and use it to bump my dopamine levels when I am tired and my motivation is low. The chance of me also sticking to a 5/2 fasting diet during periods like Christmas or holidays when the temptation to overeat is much higher is probably close to zero. I think some of the diet programmes offered by NHS are now catching on to this and provide behavioural and lifestyle support along with the usual advice on what and what not to eat.

Exactly. When I started this thread I resolved not to bore the pants off people explaining why preachy instructions like 'all you have to do is eat less and exercise more', 'all you have to do is use more self control', 'all you have to do is follow a keto diet' [ad nauseam] are of no use to me as they totally fail to understand the compulsions behind my particular eating psyche, and the particular eating psyches of every other person with a weight/eating problem. (I’ve also spent 30 years trying and retrying all of these approaches, and most of them work well - but only for a short period of time. That’s the problem.)

Anyway. I’ve received my first month's supply of Mounjaro and had my first jab. I’ll offer a few thoughts along the way but not immediately. I need to give it a few days to get going. I’ll be balanced as I’m sure there'll be bad stuff as well as good.

 

[Weststander]

Exactly. When I started this thread I resolved not to bore the pants off people explaining why preachy instructions like 'all you have to do is eat less and exercise more', 'all you have to do is use more self control', 'all you have to do is follow a keto diet' [ad nauseam] are of no use to me as they totally fail to understand the compulsions behind my particular eating psyche, and the particular eating psyches of every other person with a weight/eating problem. (I’ve also spent 30 years trying and retrying all of these approaches, and most of them work well - but only for a short period of time. That’s the problem.)

Anyway. I’ve received my first month's supply of Mounjaro and had my first jab. I’ll offer a few thoughts along the way but not immediately. I need to give it a few days to get going. I’ll be balanced as I’m sure there'll be bad stuff as well as good.

It’s an interesting topic, glad you started it.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Exactly. When I started this thread I resolved not to bore the pants off people explaining why preachy instructions like 'all you have to do is eat less and exercise more', 'all you have to do is use more self control', 'all you have to do is follow a keto diet' [ad nauseam] are of no use to me as they totally fail to understand the compulsions behind my particular eating psyche, and the particular eating psyches of every other person with a weight/eating problem. (I’ve also spent 30 years trying and retrying all of these approaches, and most of them work well - but only for a short period of time. That’s the problem.)

Anyway. I’ve received my first month's supply of Mounjaro and had my first jab. I’ll offer a few thoughts along the way but not immediately. I need to give it a few days to get going. I’ll be balanced as I’m sure there'll be bad stuff as well as good.

Yes, I believe eating can be an addiction, not dissimilar to alcohol, drugs, smoking or gambling. To just say "stop eating so much / wrong stuff" is no different to saying to an alcoholic to just stop drinking, etc.

Never has the statement "easier said than done" been so relevant. I'm sure most / all who have any addiction are fully aware what they need to do and the implications of not breaking the habit - but just can't help themselves. Years ago, I wanted to be hypnotised and my subconscious told that chocolate smelled like dog-shit. Maybe that could be an answer? But yes, I agree the issue with addiction is predominately phycological.

 

[SkirlieWirlie]

Exactly. When I started this thread I resolved not to bore the pants off people explaining why preachy instructions like 'all you have to do is eat less and exercise more', 'all you have to do is use more self control', 'all you have to do is follow a keto diet' [ad nauseam] are of no use to me as they totally fail to understand the compulsions behind my particular eating psyche, and the particular eating psyches of every other person with a weight/eating problem. (I’ve also spent 30 years trying and retrying all of these approaches, and most of them work well - but only for a short period of time. That’s the problem.)

Anyway. I’ve received my first month's supply of Mounjaro and had my first jab. I’ll offer a few thoughts along the way but not immediately. I need to give it a few days to get going. I’ll be balanced as I’m sure there'll be bad stuff as well as good.

I hope the information shared didn't come across as preachy, wasn't meant that way, more general information on healthy eating, sustainability and that everyone is different and you need to find a way that works for you as an individual. The advice given on how to lose weight by experts and revised nutritional guidelines has changed massively in recent times and not everyone, including many health professionals, is aware. Still lots of mixed messaging, but getting better.

Best of luck and the fact you're doing something positive to make the change is the important thing

 

[Half Time Pies]

Exactly. When I started this thread I resolved not to bore the pants off people explaining why preachy instructions like 'all you have to do is eat less and exercise more', 'all you have to do is use more self control', 'all you have to do is follow a keto diet' [ad nauseam] are of no use to me as they totally fail to understand the compulsions behind my particular eating psyche, and the particular eating psyches of every other person with a weight/eating problem. (I’ve also spent 30 years trying and retrying all of these approaches, and most of them work well - but only for a short period of time. That’s the problem.)

Anyway. I’ve received my first month's supply of Mounjaro and had my first jab. I’ll offer a few thoughts along the way but not immediately. I need to give it a few days to get going. I’ll be balanced as I’m sure there'll be bad stuff as well as good.

You did ask very politely in your first post to not be told to just eat less and excercise more! I suppose it's difficult for people who have a more normal relationship with food to understand how difficult this can be for some people.

Best of luck with the jabs and thanks for starting the thread. I don't think we are very good as Men talking about issues like these so I see these types of discussions as really positive.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I didn't have time to read the whole thread so I missed that. For me the biggest problem is that a lot of the diet industry ignores the fact that for many people there is an emotional element to overeating and for some this can even develop in to a addiction as powerful and difficult to overcome as alcohol, gambling or drug addictions. For example I just saw @Thunder Bolt mentioned the fast 800 prescription for continuing to maintain weight as fasting at 5/2 on an ongoing basis, I tried that but had zero chance of maintaining it on a ongoing basis because of my relationship with food, I have a busy life, have ADHD, forget to eat, grab food on the run, I turn to food for comfort when I'm stressed and use it to bump my dopamine levels when I am tired and my motivation is low. The chance of me also sticking to a 5/2 fasting diet during periods like Christmas or holidays when the temptation to overeat is much higher is probably close to zero. I think some of the diet programmes offered by NHS are now catching on to this and provide behavioural and lifestyle support along with the usual advice on what and what not to eat.

There is nothing wrong with a break in the 5/2 routine and neither should you feel guilty for enjoying Christmas and holidays.
Feasting and fasting are perfectly normal. Food is an emotional experience.

 

[PascalGroß Tips]

The book I mentioned in post #52 talks to this in detail. The Dr who wrote the book has been treating patients for obesity through surgical procedures for many years and a very high level summary of his view is that in effect starving your body for weeks or months will result in a physical rebound when you start to reintroduce foods that you've excluded during that time and in fact your body will go into the reverse of 'starvation mode' to restock it's fat reserves. I think this is where some of his observations and theories come in rather than 100% study based.

But, I think the key is about reducing calorie intake, eating healthy foods (this includes fats, as well as protein and carbohydrates), which will stabilise blood sugars, reduced spikes, etc so when you start to increase your intake once you've hit the weight you're aiming for, it minimises any negative rebound.

It's about making permanent lifestyle changes , not short term fad diets to lose weight as quickly as possible. Slow reductions over time much more sustainable and I suspect better for your overall body and health too.

Edit: I find this subject fascinating and wish it had been a thing when I was about to leave secondary school that I could have chosen as a career. A lot of the nutritional advice disseminated by governments worldwide for over 50 years is based on 'scientific studies' paid for by sugar companies in the 50's demonising fat to deflect from the damage done by their product.

My diet now is much higher in fat than it used to be, but good fats (olive oil, nuts, seeds, oily fish, etc) but good for health and reducing hunger too.

I couldn't agree more

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think of the 5:2 as a sustained initial effort to shed the bulk of the weight, something folk might start in January as an example. Not something that can be sustained over a lifetime, nor is it designed to be. It worked for Dr Mosley who started off in danger of an early death like his father, then for many of his readers.

Most people probably wouldn’t be willing to go through the anguish of an entire daytime with no food.

The two days are 800 calories, not zero. A hard boiled egg for breakfast, Heinz chicken noodle soup at lunchtime and a chicken breast fillet with a serving of fresh greens for dinner.

 

[Half Time Pies]

There is nothing wrong with a break in the 5/2 routine and neither should you feel guilty for enjoying Christmas and holidays.
Feasting and fasting are perfectly normal. Food is an emotional experience.

I am sure for some people the 5/2 works perfectly and I pleased that it does for you, but for many of us there is so much more to this than simply following a routine. I am not sure how to say this without sounding rude but for many people guilt and feeling bad about themselves is a huge part of the problem and can fuel the overeating. Telling someone that is really struggling with these types of issues that they shouldn't feel a certain way, can sound a little bit condescending and is rarely very helpful!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I am sure for some people the 5/2 works perfectly and I pleased that it does for you, but for many of us there is so much more to this than simply following a routine. I am not sure how to say this without sounding rude but for many people guilt and feeling bad about themselves is a huge part of the problem and can fuel the overeating. Telling someone that is really struggling with these types of issues that they shouldn't feel a certain way, can sound a little bit condescending and is rarely very helpful!

I’m sorry if you read it as condescending but when I first started putting on weight (In my 50s due to antibodies attacking my thyroid) I did find it helpful.

 

[PaulineSinclair]

I wouldn't take any of those. Wegovy can cause gastroparesis (stomach paralysis).
As proof, people are suing the company that is making it - it's all described by this law firm.

 

[Coldeanseagull]

Another reason I'm doing the jabs, is everyones metabolism works in different ways. I worked with a bloke in his late forties who could eat twice as much as me, drank beer for England and did zero exercise, yet he never gained weight......I didn't like the skinny runt very much....I was putting on weight just thinking about what to have for dinner

 

[Weststander]

The two days are 800 calories, not zero. A hard boiled egg for breakfast, Heinz chicken noodle soup at lunchtime and a chicken breast fillet with a serving of fresh greens for dinner.

You're right, but I was referring (I should've said) to a later revision in Mosley's Inflammation R4 doc.

 

[BiffyBoy]

Another reason I'm doing the jabs, is everyones metabolism works in different ways. I worked with a bloke in his late forties who could eat twice as much as me, drank beer for England and did zero exercise, yet he never gained weight......I didn't like the skinny runt very much....I was putting on weight just thinking about what to have for dinner

This is very true!

I was always in the camp that if you eat less, exercise more, then with a good calorie deficiency, you'll guarantee to lose weight.

My view has changed. I know enough people who do the above and eat a very balanced diet but just can't lose weight. So much comes down to metabolism and genetics.

If people are getting meaningful weight adjustments with the injections and can try and maintain it when they stop using them, it can only be positive.

 

[Professor Plum]

This is a very interesting article from the Economist, for anyone who still thinks the benefits of this new class of drugs are being overstated.

https://archive.ph/VTfiQ

The impact of these jabs is incredibly far-reaching, from emotional/ADHD benefits to treating alcohol and drug addiction, heart disease, and even snoring and sleep apnoea. These are on top of the core purpose, to reduce appetite, lose weight, and treat type 2 diabetes.

 

[wehatepalace]

quick update
I’m now on to my first 5ml step up dose so a month in, and I have had a few side effects, quite a lot of nausea, headaches and I’ve been pissing like a racehorse, but they do seemed to have subsided a bit now though.
I’ve lost over a stone in weight now and feeling pretty good in myself.
Still zero appetite really, I have to make myself eat but much much smaller portions and absolutely no cravings for a snack !

 

[Snowy]

My next door neighbour has been using Mounjaro and described it as a miracle drug that has helped her lose two and a half stone. However, she has now been diagnosed with gallstones that are blocking her bile duct which has caused reduced liver function and she needs an urgent cholecystectomy to remove her gall bladder. Her consultant believes that this is all due to the Mounjaro. She has also had numerous painful UTIs and a large number of sick days off of work because of the side effects and unbearable pain. She said that if anyone is considering Mounjaro then please, please do plenty of research, be super aware of the side effects, and be very careful. Do your research and if you have any concerns whatsoever go straight to your GP before it escalates. She adds that, of course, she doesn’t plan on using Mounjaro anymore!

 

[Professor Plum]

My next door neighbour has been using Mounjaro and described it as a miracle drug that has helped her lose two and a half stone. However, she has now been diagnosed with gallstones that are blocking her bile duct which has caused reduced liver function and she needs an urgent cholecystectomy to remove her gall bladder. Her consultant believes that this is all due to the Mounjaro. She has also had numerous painful UTIs and a large number of sick days off of work because of the side effects and unbearable pain. She said that if anyone is considering Mounjaro then please, please do plenty of research, be super aware of the side effects, and be very careful. Do your research and if you have any concerns whatsoever go straight to your GP before it escalates. She adds that, of course, she doesn’t plan on using Mounjaro anymore!

It’s not specifically a Mounjaro issue. Gallstone problems are not uncommon for people who lose a lot of weight in a relatively short period of time. People who have bariatric surgery are particularly prone. Mounjaro, Wegovy, Ozempic etc users all have relatively high incidence of gall bladder problems but it’s the rapid weight loss they have in common. There’s a lot of interesting discussion of this on Mounjaro Reddit groups. There’s no reason not to resume these treatments after the issues have been resolved.

But you’re right to bring attention to the link between rapid weight loss and gall bladder problems. Just not Mounjaro specific.