[Misc] Weight loss jabs - Mounjaro, Wegovy etc.

[Half Time Pies]

That’s a new one on me. I wonder if Mounjaro would work better? I say this because some research is hinting at MJ producing an actual decrease in ADHD symptoms — as has been the case for me, I think. I was diagnosed as having ADHD about 15 years ago and was on meds until a year or so ago when I voluntarily stopped taking them (their effectiveness declined a lot over time). Since taking MJ (about 3 months now) I’ve certainly felt more organised and more motivated ie less ADHD-ish, but this may well be simply a consequence of losing weight and feeling healthier, which always helps mental as well as physical wellbeing.

Good luck anyway, and don’t discount the idea of trying MJ. For most people, food suppression begins very quickly but some users report having to go up a few doses to reach a therapeutic level. You always start on 2.5mg and go up by a further 2.5mg each month until you reach the right dose, to a maximum of 15mg. But it’s true that for a minority of users, MJ simply doesn’t work well.

If you get a diagnosis and start taking ADHD meds, bear in mind this is unlikely to have any effect on your weight.

This is interesting as I have severe ADHD as well, I have been reading quite a bit on the role of of dopamine in addiction, apparently each dopamine hit leads to a even bigger dopamine trough (deficit) which helps to set up the process of wanting more and more. As us ADHD'ers tend to have naturally low levels of dopamine Its feasible that reducing the carb hits may start to balance the levels out a bit and improve symptoms.

 

[Littlemo]

That’s a new one on me. I wonder if Mounjaro would work better? I say this because some research is hinting at MJ producing an actual decrease in ADHD symptoms — as has been the case for me, I think. I was diagnosed as having ADHD about 15 years ago and was on meds until a year or so ago when I voluntarily stopped taking them (their effectiveness declined a lot over time). Since taking MJ (about 3 months now) I’ve certainly felt more organised and more motivated ie less ADHD-ish, but this may well be simply a consequence of losing weight and feeling healthier, which always helps mental as well as physical wellbeing.

Good luck anyway, and don’t discount the idea of trying MJ. For most people, food suppression begins very quickly but some users report having to go up a few doses to reach a therapeutic level. You always start on 2.5mg and go up by a further 2.5mg each month until you reach the right dose, to a maximum of 15mg. But it’s true that for a minority of users, MJ simply doesn’t work well.

If you get a diagnosis and start taking ADHD meds, bear in mind this is unlikely to have any effect on your weight.

It may do. I did notice a bit of improvement with focus, especially at work, on Wegovy but nothing on the whole food noise/cravings etc. I certainly wouldn’t rule out using Mouranjo, certainly. Even a little bit of a difference helps in the long term.

I believe that the ADHD med Vyvanse is also used in the treatment of binge eating disorders. That is a common symptom of ADHD apparently, it was what called me on to the possibility of having it.

It’s not a weight loss drug in the way Wegovy/Mouranjo is etc but I think I’ll be better trying to tackle the cause rather than they symptoms of you see what I mean and not binge eating would certainly contribute to better weight outcomes.

 

[chimneys]

Just be careful out there, people.
The long term effects are uncertain.

I have done some consulting on safety pharmacology, and I know what insufficient data looks like.

But of course I hope that all will end well.
The present signs are encouraging.

Can you explain what you mean by "..be careful.." HWT? Surely you either take it or you don't (appreciating there are different strengths and periods taken)?

Therefore I guess you must be saying don't at all, as that's the only way to be careful with "the long term effects uncertain" as you say? Again could you clarify what you mean by "long term"?

Basically, could you give your professional warning a bit of clarity.

Thanks.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Can you explain what you mean by "..be careful.." HWT? Surely you either take it or you don't (appreciating there are different strengths and periods taken)?

Therefore I guess you must be saying don't at all, as that's the only way to be careful with "the long term effects uncertain" as you say? Again could you clarify what you mean by "long term"?

Basically, could you give your professional warning a bit of clarity.

Thanks.

OK. We know the safety profile when used for diabetes-associated obesity.
And the risk-benefit profile.
Which is skewed heavily in favour of benefit for this quite life threatening condition.

Albeit even here the longer term effects of the drug cannot be certain yet, beyond the duration that those taking it to date.
For that you need to check the most recent long term clinical findings.

We can say neither for use in weight loss in those not morbidly ill and without a significant risk of dying prematurely.

So this is why you are taking a risk if you use the apparently readily-available online sources.
A risk because we simply don't know the risk-benefit profile in this population.

So you are taking an unknown risk if you select to take the drug outside of the NHS or genuine private consultant path.

If you ask me if the risk is 'big' or 'worth taking' I cannot answer.
For me that means erring on the side of caution.
I won't be taking these meds until my GP suggests it.

It could be that these drugs turn out like statins - useful and safe with any adverse effects easily identifiable and fixable
Worst case, it could turn out like Vioxx, albeit this scandal followed a pharma cover up.

I hope I have made the level of uncertainty a bit clearer.

 

[Professor Plum]

It may do. I did notice a bit of improvement with focus, especially at work, on Wegovy but nothing on the whole food noise/cravings etc. I certainly wouldn’t rule out using Mouranjo, certainly. Even a little bit of a difference helps in the long term.

I believe that the ADHD med Vyvanse is also used in the treatment of binge eating disorders. That is a common symptom of ADHD apparently, it was what called me on to the possibility of having it.

It’s not a weight loss drug in the way Wegovy/Mouranjo is etc but I think I’ll be better trying to tackle the cause rather than they symptoms of you see what I mean and not binge eating would certainly contribute to better weight outcomes.

Vyvanse, I believe, has an Amphetamine-type quality that increases focus but reduces appetite, increases heart rate and blood pressure etc. A mild form of speed, basically. Perhaps someone here will know more. Frankly I would like to be able to try it for recreational purposes but I think I’m too old to get it prescribed now as they worry about the impact of increased hypertension on oldies. Mounjaro has no euphoria qualities but it is totally safe apart from common side-effects, usually temporary, of constipation or diarrhoea, occasional nausea etc. Inconvenient but not severe. Some of the various weight-loss jab treatments in fact appear to reduce blood pressure and anxiety in some users. It’s a shame that the one you tried didn’t work out for you.

 

[chimneys]

OK. We know the safety profile when used for diabetes-associated obesity.
And the risk-benefit profile.
Which is skewed heavily in favour of benefit for this quite life threatening condition.

Albeit even here the longer term effects of the drug cannot be certain yet, beyond the duration that those taking it to date.
For that you need to check the most recent long term clinical findings.

We can say neither for use in weight loss in those not morbidly ill and without a significant risk of dying prematurely.

So this is why you are taking a risk if you use the apparently readily-available online sources.
A risk because we simply don't know the risk-benefit profile in this population.

So you are taking an unknown risk if you select to take the drug outside of the NHS or genuine private consultant path.

If you ask me if the risk is 'big' or 'worth taking' I cannot answer.
For me that means erring on the side of caution.
I won't be taking these meds until my GP suggests it.

It could be that these drugs turn out like statins - useful and safe with any adverse effects easily identifiable and fixable
Worst case, it could turn out like Vioxx, albeit this scandal followed a pharma cover up.

I hope I have made the level of uncertainty a bit clearer.

Much appreciated. Many thanks.

 

[Littlemo]

Vyvanse, I believe, has an Amphetamine-type quality that increases focus but reduces appetite, increases heart rate and blood pressure etc. A mild form of speed, basically. Perhaps someone here will know more. Frankly I would like to be able to try it for recreational purposes but I think I’m too old to get it prescribed now as they worry about the impact of increased hypertension on oldies. Mounjaro has no euphoria qualities but it is totally safe apart from common side-effects, usually temporary, of constipation or diarrhoea, occasional nausea etc. Inconvenient but not severe. Some of the various weight-loss jab treatments in fact appear to reduce blood pressure and anxiety in some users. It’s a shame that the one you tried didn’t work out for you.

Yeah, I was really disappointed when I kind of came to the conclusion it wasn’t working, I had a lot of hopes pinned on it but I have to be realistic and not take meds that aren’t effective. That and it costs £325 per month which is too much for something not working well enough.

I am not put off trying Mouranjo in the future, I might if for any reason I can’t get assessed or work on the ADHD, we just felt let’s try sort out one of the big causes of the weight, not the weight as a symptom.

 

[Professor Plum]

This is a really fascinating discussion and one that is really resonating with me at the moment. I am back on another pretty extreme diet to lose the weight that I put on (and some) after finishing the last extreme diet a year or two ago. I only manage to control my weight by periodically doing these diets but each time I put It all back on and a bit more and my weight creeps higher and higher.

This time however it feels a bit different, Its finally sinking in that what I'm dealing with is a food addiction and not something that I can solve with a traditional diet. I think that i have been fooling myself that once I've lost the weight somehow I will be able to magically moderate my food intake over the longer term. As others have said there are some of us who are wired differently and for us refined carbohydrates are like crack cocaine, it triggers our neurochemistry to such an extent that it leaves us craving more and more.

I have been reading up on this and it seems the only way of kicking the addiction is by abstinence, and by permanently following a low carb diet, in the same way that a recovering Alcoholic cant just have an occasional drink, its ridiculous to think that I can have a binge on this type of food and then magically return to healthy eating the next day, maybe a few times but after a while the willpower will slip and inevitably I will be back to square one.

The issue I am now struggling with is the implications of this, already I am experiencing extreme boredom and particularly at the weekends as I have become acutely aware of how much my life is centred around food! It's finding what to replace that with and there is also the social bit to navigate like eating in restaurants and going out with friends. It's going to be extremely difficult but I can only see the problem becoming bigger the older I get and It feels like i really need to do something about it now.

All of that resonates strongly. I’ve spent more than 30 years on yo-yo diets, constantly thinking at last, I’ve found one that works — but it never does in the long term. Low carb/ keto was the most successful for me in terms of steady weight loss but I just couldn’t stick it for more than a few weeks. Typically, my desire for carbs fell very quickly for a while but eventually would come back with a vengeance, and that was that. Anyone with an eating disorder/ problem with bingeing, will understand.

I hate sounding like a Mounjaro salesperson but I have to say it’s liberated me from all that shit. For most users, it eliminates or reduces food noise, that constant obsession with what will I eat next / cook next / shop for next. I actually eat quite normally. Last night I had homemade burger and chips! But I hadn’t been hungry all day. Had some fruit for breakfast then nothing till the evening. No beer or Piglet Pie at the match, for instance, which has been a half-time habit for many years at football. Now, I just don’t want that stuff. No snacks, crisps, chocolate etc, and crucially, no sense that I’m sacrificing anything or going hungry. I’m steadily losing about 1-1.5 lbs a week which is perfect for me.

But I I don’t want to persuade you or anyone else. You need to DYOR. There’s a ton of stuff out there, including Reddit subs, Facebook groups etc, not all of it positive.

Edit — your username just registered with me! Total coincidence!!

 

[Commander]

Why on earth would he triple his drinking after embarking on a weight-loss plan? I’ve never heard anything like it.

I've no idea. He's quite a strange guy! He's lost a lot of weight on it though and wasn't much of a drinker before. He just says for some reason he feels that a glass or two of ref wine with dinner feels much more tempting than it ever did before.

 

[Half Time Pies]

It may do. I did notice a bit of improvement with focus, especially at work, on Wegovy but nothing on the whole food noise/cravings etc. I certainly wouldn’t rule out using Mouranjo, certainly. Even a little bit of a difference helps in the long term.

I believe that the ADHD med Vyvanse is also used in the treatment of binge eating disorders. That is a common symptom of ADHD apparently, it was what called me on to the possibility of having it.

It’s not a weight loss drug in the way Wegovy/Mouranjo is etc but I think I’ll be better trying to tackle the cause rather than they symptoms of you see what I mean and not binge eating would certainly contribute to better weight outcomes.

I could see how a drug designed to treat the symptoms of ADHD could help with binge eating. It is thought that low dopamine levels are one of the causes of ADHD, and having low dopamine function can result in stronger cravings for food. It would probably then follow on that a drug that increases Dopamine levels/ function could therefore feasibly help with binge eating.

I have taken methylphenidate for my ADHD and that did nothing for my food addiction but Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine) is different from other ADHD drugs in that it only becomes active after being converted by the body in to a different compound.

​

 

[Half Time Pies]

All of that resonates strongly. I’ve spent more than 30 years on yo-yo diets, constantly thinking at last, I’ve found one that works — but it never does in the long term. Low carb/ keto was the most successful for me in terms of steady weight loss but I just couldn’t stick it for more than a few weeks. Typically, my desire for carbs nigh very quickly for a while but eventually would come back with a vengeance, and that was that. Anyone with an eating disorder/ problem with bingeing, will understand.

I hate sounding like a Mounjaro salesperson but I have to say it’s liberated me from all that shit. For most users, it eliminates or reduces food noise, that constant obsession with what will I eat next / cook next / shop for next. I actually eat quite normally. Last night I had homemade burger and chips! But I hadn’t been hungry all day. Had some fruit for breakfast then nothing till the evening. No beer or Piglet Pie at the match, for instance, which has been a half-time habit for many years at football. Now, I just don’t want that stuff. No snacks, crisps, chocolate etc, and crucially, no sense that I’m sacrificing anything or going hungry. I’m steadily losing about 1-1.5 lbs a week which is perfect for me.

But I I don’t want to persuade you or anyone else. You need to DYOR. There’s a ton of stuff out there, including Reddit subs, Facebook groups etc, not all of it positive.

Edit — your username just registered with me! Total coincidence!!

Yes looking back my choice of user name may have been another indicator of an unhealthy relationship with food!

I cant imagine what life would be like without the food chatter! Sounds incredible! Do you struggle to find things to fill the time/ space that was previously spent obsessing about food? As I said one of the main things I am struggling with is boredom, taking away all the carb rich food seems to me to have removed most of the fun out of my life!!

 

[Professor Plum]

Yes looking back my choice of user name may have been another indicator of an unhealthy relationship with food!

I cant imagine what life would be like without the food chatter! Sounds incredible! Do you struggle to find things to fill the time/ space that was previously spent obsessing about food? As I said one of the main things I am struggling with is boredom, taking away all the carb rich food seems to me to have removed most of the fun out of my life!!

No, I have no problem thinking of other things to do with my mental energy! Writing, reading, and walking. I’ve rediscovered the pleasure of walking, whether that just round the local streets for 20 mins or along the seafront. I try to get an average of 30-40 mins of strenuous walking per day, and I emphasise strenuous. There are plenty of walking apps to help. Next step is to do more proper hiking and I’ll shortly try running again after a very long break. I’m going to follow the C25K and see how far I get.

BTW although food noise has dropped a lot I still enjoy cooking and eating. Just not so obsessive. And I’ve got back into making my own bread again.

 

[Littlemo]

Yes looking back my choice of user name may have been another indicator of an unhealthy relationship with food!

I cant imagine what life would be like without the food chatter! Sounds incredible! Do you struggle to find things to fill the time/ space that was previously spent obsessing about food? As I said one of the main things I am struggling with is boredom, taking away all the carb rich food seems to me to have removed most of the fun out of my life!!

Talking about the lack of food noise, I tried hypnosis during lockdown in 2020.

It worked initially and was incredible, my mind felt so blank and peaceful. I never felt the urge to have chocolate and was satisfied with a biscuit if I did have anything which for me was unheard of. Genuinely incredible.

Sadly it wore off and I was gutted. It was the strangest feeling though.