[News] We want our Marbles back, we want our Marbles back...

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

The Greeks think we’ve gone mad

Surely you mean they think we've lost our marbles?!

Ah.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Long queues at Greek airports for Brits then. Just as well none of us have any reason to go to Greece any time soon. Oh.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Embarrassing! Really? Embarrassing……….

Whilst handing them back is probably the correct thing to do now, how in Jesus’ name were you embarrassed by this? It happened before you were born. Unless Elgin actually was a member of your family of course?

Awaits being reported for blasphemy now.

If you are in Athens this week, go to the museum at the base of the Parthenon. Walk around the gallery where the “ frieze” is displayed. You will see that the original layout is reproduced with the plates missing reproduced in white with a label…original at BM ( and Berlin and Paris)

yes it is embarrassing seeing these plaster casts and as a classics scholar at the time, I found it so. The Greeks have identified this issue as being a national identity one and I agree they should be returned as Elgin actually bought them off the ottomans who ran the country at the time.( fragmented as the tossers used the Parthenon as a armoury and it exploded so shattering most of what was there)

Which also to those who follow these things is the argument of us returning the Benin Bronzes in the same way! The Portuguese sold them to us in the same way

 

[Easy 10]

On another note, it’s the duty of a Prime Minister to meet heads of State. Cancelling a meeting, apart from a national disaster, is just plain rude. Have the meeting, mumble some diplomatic niceties, and leave it at that.

Well now hang on. Rishi did offer to send his deputy Oliver Dowden to meet the Greek Prime Minister in his place - he promptly declined!

I mean honestly. These mediterraneans.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

My son told me that the British side of the story was that Elgin originally took a team to take casts and drawings of the marble parts of the Parthenon that had fallen. It was during this that he found the marble structures that had fallen were being burned to obtain lime for further building.

He then decided at this point to 'save' the originals, together with pieces from Erechtheion, the Propylaia and the Temple of Athena Nike and that had he not, they wouldn't still be in existence as they would have been burnt for the lime.

I wonder if it's yet another situation where if you think it's simple then you don't really understand the facts and history

(And I certainly don't, just giving the other side as I heard it )

And yet strangely Greece still has some of them unburned. I call that story as BS.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

My son told me that the British side of the story was that Elgin originally took a team to take casts and drawings of the marble parts of the Parthenon that had fallen. It was during this that he found the marble structures that had fallen were being burned to obtain lime for further building.

He then decided at this point to 'save' the originals, together with pieces from Erechtheion, the Propylaia and the Temple of Athena Nike and that had he not, they wouldn't still be in existence as they would have been burnt for the lime.

I wonder if it's yet another situation where if you think it's simple then you don't really understand the facts and history

(And I certainly don't, just giving the other side as I heard it )

Then he did his job. And now the nation of Greece has been restored from the Ottoman empire I'm sure Elgin himself would approve of their return.

 

[Brovion]

My son told me that the British side of the story was that Elgin originally took a team to take casts and drawings of the marble parts of the Parthenon that had fallen. It was during this that he found the marble structures that had fallen were being burned to obtain lime for further building.

He then decided at this point to 'save' the originals, together with pieces from Erechtheion, the Propylaia and the Temple of Athena Nike and that had he not, they wouldn't still be in existence as they would have been burnt for the lime.

I wonder if it's yet another situation where if you think it's simple then you don't really understand the facts and history

(And I certainly don't, just giving the other side as I heard it )

Yes, I'd heard that too. So he saved them, well done. It's a bit like saving a rare picture from a burning building. You don't actually own the picture, when the fire's out you return it to its rightful owner. So, yes, it's about time we did that. (And if I'd saved a work of art I certainly wouldn't start calling it "Brovion's Picture")

As an aside I wonder if Scottish football team Elgin City's nickname is 'The Marbles'? I'd love that to be true! I haven't googled it in case it isn't and I'll be disappointed.

 

[Bakero]

Yes, I'd heard that too. So he saved them, well done. It's a bit like saving a rare picture from a burning building. You don't actually own the picture, when the fire's out you return it to its rightful owner. So, yes, it's about time we did that. (And if I'd saved a work of art I certainly wouldn't start calling it "Brovion's Picture")

As an aside I wonder if Scottish football team Elgin City's nickname is 'The Marbles'? I'd love that to be true! I haven't googled it in case it isn't and I'll be disappointed.

Yeah, don't Google that.

 

[Brovion]

Yeah, don't Google that.

I read your comment and picked up the sub-text. To put myself out of my misery I DID google it. 'City' or 'The Black and Whites'. How boring! You'd have thought they could have made some reference to the marbles.

Anyway, that's my day ruined ...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Well now hang on. Rishi did offer to send his deputy Oliver Dowden to meet the Greek Prime Minister in his place - he promptly declined!

I mean honestly. These mediterraneans.

Yeah, who accepts second best?

 

[HeaviestTed]

Would the British Museum have anything left if all the pilfered stuff was returned ?

Maybe return everything and turn it into flats?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Just the Tories trying to stir up nationalistic nonsense to try to keep themselves in a job. Boring

 

[Colonel Mustard]

My son told me that the British side of the story was that Elgin originally took a team to take casts and drawings of the marble parts of the Parthenon that had fallen. It was during this that he found the marble structures that had fallen were being burned to obtain lime for further building.

…………

This was Elgin's justification, that he was forced to take the marbles to stop the Greeks from destroying their most iconic monument. You have to ask why the part of the frieze left behind by Elgin has remained largely intact, if they were hell bent on destroying it? Elgin's claims are highly dubious, and not helped by him using the marbles to decorate his own private stately home in Scotland. It was only after he got into severe money trouble that he offered them to the British Museum at a knockdown price.

Elgin's cultural vandalism caused outrage in Britain in the early 1800s, even before he’d managed to transport the treasures back to his property in Scotland.

I wonder if it's yet another situation where if you think it's simple then you don't really understand the facts and history

Yes indeed. Think about your own words.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

There was no returns clause and they can pay the postage!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There was no returns clause and they can pay the postage!

Remember that when you’re burgled.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Well now hang on. Rishi did offer to send his deputy Oliver Dowden to meet the Greek Prime Minister in his place - he promptly declined!

I mean honestly. These mediterraneans.

Who would want to meet Oliver Dowden?

 

[ConfusedGloryHunter]

British prime ministers have been using the marbles issue as an opportunity to look "strong" on the international stage for decades now. I say give them back.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Absolutely. Even if Elgin really was acting in the best interests of the Greeks (a contentious point), the time is now long overdue to see them returned to their home.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Embarrassing! Really? Embarrassing……….

Whilst handing them back is probably the correct thing to do now, how in Jesus’ name were you embarrassed by this? It happened before you were born. Unless Elgin actually was a member of your family of course?

Awaits being reported for blasphemy now.

As a Brit, I was embarrassed in the museum, seeing the big gaps in the frieze. Elgin took about half of it. What I’m embarrassed about is our continuing refusal to return them, not so much by Elgin's initial action, which may or may not have been legitimate. It’s not hard to feel embarrassed by what your countrymen do. It’s something most of us feel during international football tournaments, particularly in Europe. We have a long history of behaving badly overseas.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I wonder if the reason why the British Museum isn't keen on the idea is to do with the slew of claims, from similarly pillaged nations which is follow if a precedent is set.

As for Sunak. Well, that is the low standard I have come to expect from him. I long for the days when we have a grown up in charge of the nation and we can have a reasoned debate about these things without pandering to the tabloid obsessed right