[News] We want our Marbles back, we want our Marbles back...

[ConfusedGloryHunter]

simple solution:
We make plaster casts of the bits we have and send them the originals with a fanfare and hoo-hah. They make plaster casts of the bits they have and send them to us. We both then have wonderful exhibits, a great story, redemption and this chapter is closed.
Would I care if the bit in London is fake? I seem to remember the dinosaur skeleton in the Natural history museum was fake - plaster cast - but everyone loved Dippy.

Or Trajan's column in the V&A. You can view the top closer than you can the original.

 

[halbpro]

simple solution:
We make plaster casts of the bits we have and send them the originals with a fanfare and hoo-hah. They make plaster casts of the bits they have and send them to us. We both then have wonderful exhibits, a great story, redemption and this chapter is closed.
Would I care if the bit in London is fake? I seem to remember the dinosaur skeleton in the Natural history museum was fake - plaster cast - but everyone loved Dippy.

A pretty equitable solution honestly. I'd probably add some bits to the exhibit about what Elgin did as well. No point picking and choosing which bits of the history we display

 

[Colonel Mustard]

simple solution:
We make plaster casts of the bits we have and send them the originals with a fanfare and hoo-hah. They make plaster casts of the bits they have and send them to us. We both then have wonderful exhibits, a great story, redemption and this chapter is closed.
Would I care if the bit in London is fake? I seem to remember the dinosaur skeleton in the Natural history museum was fake - plaster cast - but everyone loved Dippy

That has been proposed, according to my Athens taxi driver but so far we've not been keen on the idea.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Snack missing a trick here. Opportunity for tabloid headlines like, 'Rishi sends them back where they came from'.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

John Oliver did a deep-dive into this 'industry' last year. It's a decent watch.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Exactly that.

Then the Falklands, GIbraltar ….

In isolation of course the Elgin Marbles should be returned, but he doesn’t want to be the one kick starting a firestorm on everything else.

I found it interesting that when Napoleon was born in Corsica, it was part of Italy. I have never heard great claims on returning Corsica to Italy, the French seem to get away with such things in a way we do not! But I admit I don’t know the full story here.

Sigh. The Falklands were uninhabited islands over 800 miles from land.

Gibraltar, I'll grant you but it was given away in a treaty.

 

[PeterT]

Sigh. The Falklands were uninhabited islands over 800 miles from land.

Gibraltar, I'll grant you but it was given away in a treaty.

Well I know that, I’m just highlighting that their current status is at the very least ‘disputed’, rightly or wrongly…. as was Hong Kong, also given away in a treaty (admittedly one connected with the Opium Wars!)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Well I know that, I’m just highlighting that their current status is at the very least ‘disputed’, rightly or wrongly…. as was Hong Kong, also given away in a treaty (admittedly one connected with the Opium Wars!)

Hong Kong was on a 99 year lease and now given back.

If you knew that, why did you lump it in with Gibraltar?

 

[Bob!]

I went see the Parthenon today. This was part of the text on a plaque describing it.

 

[PeterT]

Hong Kong was on a 99 year lease and now given back.

If you knew that, why did you lump it in with Gibraltar?

Only the New Territories were on that 99 year lease. Hong Kong island and Kowloon peninsula were ceded in perpetuity and we didn’t have to hand those parts back at all, but likely did it to avoid an escalating conflict with China arising.

I’m not sure what your other point is? I am only saying that the other 2 are disputed regardless of how we came to acquire them, nothing more.

 

[PeterT]

I went see the Parthenon today. This was part of the text on a plaque describing it.

View attachment 170377

Transported to England? To Scotland, I would say ….!

ps - I like the fact that the plaque is on a set of stumps!

 

[Bob!]

Transported to England? To Scotland, I would say ….!

Yeah, I guess Britain and England often get confusedly mixed up abroad.
As do Scotch and Scottish.

 

[Giraffe]

Yeah, I guess Britain and England often get confusedly mixed up abroad.
As do Scotch and Scottish.

Scottish egg?

 

[Pavilionaire]

Snack missing a trick here. Opportunity for tabloid headlines like, 'Rishi sends them back where they came from'.

Au contraire, I suspect he is keen to avoid the inevitable "Rishi Is Losing His Marbles" headline.

 

[Norman Potting]

Thank goodness that there are no matters of major concern currently going on in the world

 

[peterward]

I wonder if the reason why the British Museum isn't keen on the idea is to do with the slew of claims, from similarly pillaged nations which is follow if a precedent is set.

As for Sunak. Well, that is the low standard I have come to expect from him. I long for the days when we have a grown up in charge of the nation and we can have a reasoned debate about these things without pandering to the tabloid obsessed right

Thats surely the main reason? precedent.

 

[wolfie]

As with the chant at Leicester a few season's ago "Richard the Third ? , Your having a larf", I suggest that those who are there (in Athens) consider "Marbles back ?, your 'aving a larf"

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I did 'think about my own words', hence the part of my post you somehow managed to edit out before quoting it

To be fair to myself, I did deliberately add the series of full stops which was the old Usenet acknowledgment of quoting a post in edited form. But ok, we are probably different generations and that’s likely to have gone unnoticed. I apologise if that was (understandably) missed.

The reason for deliberately omitting the line was that I sort of felt you wanted it both ways. You gave a confident and pretty convincing case for Elgin's position, but then protected your viewpoint by attributing it to your son, who sounds like a Hellenic scholar of some repute. You even managed to name-drop a bunch of sculpted deities I know nothing about — and (forgive me if I’m wrong) whom I presume you knew nothing about either before you’d consulted Wikipedia. Which is all fine — that’s modern discourse for you, and I’m no less guilty. But then you added this pretty limp disclaimer saying that, hey, you didn’t really know the truth. And maybe I shouldn’t believe stuff I hear without going through the sort of rigour that you do.

It annoyed me temporarily but it doesn’t now. In fact, I think it all quite funny. Essentially, we’re both bullshitting a bit, and should have a cyberspace handshake and move on.

 

[PeterT]

As with the chant at Leicester a few season's ago "Richard the Third ? , Your having a larf", I suggest that those who are there (in Athens) consider "Marbles back ?, your 'aving a larf"

Or ‘there’s only one Lord Elgin’, which is probably not true but anyway ….

 

[halbpro]

Thats surely the main reason? precedent.

On the one hand, I understand the concern about precedent. On the other, giving things back to their countries of origin is probably the right thing to do.