Was it worth the sacrifice.

[Norman Potting]

I have just finished reading (at recommendation of various NSC'sers) "D - Day - Piercing the Atlantic Wall". Superb book, strongly focused on eye witness accounts from all sides involved and from those being being shot at/bombed/shelled.

A quote from a British tank commander on the final page struck me as being apposite to this thread.

"Any notion that we were fighting for our country, or to free Europe from Hitler, or make a better world, is largely romantic. We were fighting in order to stay alive, and our loyalties were not to our country, not to our regiment even, but intensely to one another".

Perhaps a better, if not quite so eye catching, thread title would be "what would the voters in the July 1945 General Election think of how things have panned out since".

 

[Silk]

Perhaps a better, if not quite so eye catching, thread title would be "what would the voters in the July 1945 General Election think of how things have panned out since".

Precisely the point I was making earlier in the thread. The people who fought the war voted overwhelmingly FOR all the things the OP thinks they would be lamenting.

Silly thread really.

 

[cunning fergus]

Precisely the point I was making earlier in the thread. The people who fought the war voted overwhelmingly FOR all the things the OP thinks they would be lamenting.

Silly thread really.

So you actually think that in 1945 those who had fought the war subsequently voted for the establishment of a supra-European political institution that would mean "unelected" continental European politicians would be able to create and impose laws on the democratically elected UK Government, which is largely the position today.

For the record no one has voted for this, hence the mess we have with the EU today.

 

[cunning fergus]

Poorly educated Prior to the early 80's when calculators were allowed to be used in a maths or science exam the only form of calculator in use was called a brain with the help of logarithmic tables. (If you know what they are) They also knew their times tables 2 to 12 before they were 9yrs old while their written and spoken English would put a modern day "educated graduate" to shame. So please tell your parents that they are "poorly educated"!!!!

I agree, I expect the Guardian journo can't conceive that anyone without a mediocre degree from some rebranded polytechnic has any "education".

Not my parents.......the old man (now 83) was tallying for a local bookie when he was still at school, and is still a sharp mental arithmetician; getting overpaid in change in local shops is a source of perpetual amusement for him, he usually targets the young uns.

 

[Silk]

So you actually think that in 1945 those who had fought the war subsequently voted for the establishment of a supra-European political institution that would mean "unelected" continental European politicians would be able to create and impose laws on the democratically elected UK Government, which is largely the position today.

For the record no one has voted for this, hence the mess we have with the EU today.

The OP didn't mention Europe, so not sure what you're banging on about.

 

[MarioOrlandi]

I agree, I expect the Guardian journo can't conceive that anyone without a mediocre degree from some rebranded polytechnic has any "education".

Not my parents.......the old man (now 83) was tallying for a local bookie when he was still at school, and is still a sharp mental arithmetician; getting overpaid in change in local shops is a source of perpetual amusement for him, he usually targets the young uns.

Pmsl like it [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

[User removed 4]

Precisely the point I was making earlier in the thread. The people who fought the war voted overwhelmingly FOR all the things the OP thinks they would be lamenting.

Silly thread really.

You're correct , but they didn't and wouldnt have voted for it to be given away to every tom dick and harry that pitches up here without putting a penny in the pot , and they wouldn't have een able to conceive how the welfare system would be abused

 

[MattBackHome]

[yt]NrLkTZrPZA4[/yt]

 

[Bold Seagull]

Amazing how people can refer to a great body of people as 'they', like 'they' would have some kind of unified collective opinion determining their overall opinion of the state of the country 70 years after their sacrifice.

I have little doubt that 'they' would have had a great range of opinions and views as diverse as we have today.

One thing you could probably say 'they' may have been unified about, and that is the lack of respect in having themselves used as some kind of political stick 70 years on when all they were trying to do was survive.

 

[Silk]

You're correct , but they didn't and wouldnt have voted for it to be given away to every tom dick and harry that pitches up here without putting a penny in the pot , and they wouldn't have een able to conceive how the welfare system would be abused

No, I agree with the first bit. But they would have been aware that it could be abused just as we are. They weren't daft you know. There were plenty of crooks and conmen about, it wasn't some golden age without criminals and skivers.

 

[daveinprague]

No, I agree with the first bit. But they would have been aware that it could be abused just as we are. They weren't daft you know. There were plenty of crooks and conmen about, it wasn't some golden age without criminals and skivers.

You mean, there was crime before muslims and brown people..??
Bushy-bottler will have a seizure...

 

[Creaky]

You're correct , but they didn't and wouldnt have voted for it to be given away to every tom dick and harry that pitches up here without putting a penny in the pot , and they wouldn't have een able to conceive how the welfare system would be abused

They couldn't have conceived of a welfare system as generous as the current one, full stop.

 

[User removed 4]

You mean, there was crime before muslims and brown people..??
Bushy-bottler will have a seizure...

Bushy bottler , jesus wept how old are you ? 12? Pm me with a QUIET out of the way place to meet up next time you're over , dont give it the large one offering to meet me in wetherspoons west st like you did last time , somewhere quiet where I can ram your insults back down your throat witbout getting nicked , thats presuming your not a grass, this is the last time ill bother answering you

 

[daveinprague]

Yes, 'Bushy bottler' is quite apt for a gum flapping pussy. Shut up you puss. Ive sussed you out.. You give a lot of mouth, and then you dont show up. You know it. I know it
Am I 12? No, but then again, im not inviting you to fight like a ****ing schoolboy, and then looking for excuses not to show up, you wanker.
As for 'dont give it large?'...haha....Youre the one offering ...I gave you the opportunity, to 'ram my words down my throat'....You made your excuses you bottling ****...Youre the one giving it large...not me....

and, the last time you will be answering me?...oh no....that would be tragic. Do one, bottle job.



pssst...shouldnt you be busy, indexing, and archiving your links to past NSC conversations? hahaha...you tragic ****.

 

[LargeHadronZugzwang]

Precisely the point I was making earlier in the thread. The people who fought the war voted overwhelmingly FOR all the things the OP thinks they would be lamenting.

Silly thread really.

That there is a link between fighting Fascism and being favour of UKIP policies: am sure plenty of those who fought in WWII would find such an idea laughable. If some xenophobes want to trust somebody with monies in Cayman Islands, and who thinks climate change is a liberal hoax is going to improve our lot, then they are seriously misguided.

Thread did get interesting when the subject of Joseph K tattoos was discussed.

Kippers great with sweetcorn and new potatoes, but bores when in soap box mode.

 

[Silk]

They couldn't have conceived of a welfare system as generous as the current one, full stop.

It isn't generous.

 

[Garage_Doors]

It isn't generous.

It is.
It's now a lifestyle choice. The benefit system is now able to support a lifestyle rather than being a support for those falling on hard times.
It used to become a means of being able to support a family when dealing with sickness or unemployment.
Now its a viable and socially accepted alternative to working for a living.
This was the main thurst of the thread before it got dicected and taken away from this point.

 

[Silk]

It is.
It's now a lifestyle choice. The benefit system is now able to support a lifestyle rather than being a support for those falling on hard times.
It used to become a means of being able to support a family when dealing with sickness or unemployment.
Now it a viable and socially accepted alternative to working for a living.
This was the main thurst of the thread before it got dicected and taken away from this point.

What does that actually mean, "support a lifestyle"? There'd be no damn point giving people money if it didn't support a lifestyle of some sort. It supports a very basic lifestyle. Poor housing, poor diet, etc. It also DOES provide a safety net to support families dealing with sickness and unemployment. It doesn't stop doing that just because some people take the mickey.

I'd like to know what you think the alternative is, with half a million jobs and two million unemployed. Slave labour? Extermination, maybe?

 

[Garage_Doors]

What does that actually mean, "support a lifestyle"? There'd be no damn point giving people money if it didn't support a lifestyle of some sort. It supports a very basic lifestyle. Poor housing, poor diet, etc. It also DOES provide a safety net to support families dealing with sickness and unemployment. It doesn't stop doing that just because some people take the mickey.

I'd like to know what you think the alternative is, with half a million jobs and two million unemployed. Slave labour? Extermination, maybe?

What it means is it supports not just a basic lifestyle but sufficient to run a car, holiday(s) premium tv services etc.
What I suggest is for charitable work, helping the less abled, older people etc, to use their day more productively and put something back into the community from where their income is coming from rather than just taking and give them a sense of purpose and a reason to get up in the morning.

Are your comments re Slave labour? Extermination, serious ones That sounds like Nazi Germany, the very thing our ancestors gave their lives to protect us from.

 

[Ernest]

What it means is it supports not just a basic lifestyle but sufficient to run a car, holiday(s) premium tv services etc.
What I suggest is for charitable work, helping the less abled, older people etc, to use their day more productively and put something back into the community from where their income is coming from rather than just taking and give them a sense of purpose and a reason to get up in the morning.

Are your comments re Slave labour? Extermination, serious ones That sounds like Nazi Germany, the very thing our ancestors gave their lives to protect us from.

Does selling programmes come under that heading ?