Was it worth the sacrifice.

[daveinprague]

No, I'm not saying that at all and you're mixing up two different arguments. You said that right-wingers who moan about the Left dragging this country down, denigrate the country. I found the idea of hating a political creed equating to hating your country quite amusing/baffling. It's directly from the gospel according to Mao.

I also disagree completely with that assertion. They're denigrating the Left for causing the country to slump (if that's the right word). That's completely different from denigrating the country. If anything it shows they still care deeply about their country.

I said...rightwingers denigrate the country, and that their usual excuse was the left... whether left or right...a denigrated country, is a denigrated country.
Im pretty sure ive never seen a 'lefty', on NSC say that Britian is shit...just rightwingers.
It shows they 'care' about a country that doesnt exist....
Anyways, im escaping work early...have a good weekend etc.

 

[Buzzer]

Im pretty sure ive never seen a 'lefty', on NSC say that Britian is shit...just rightwingers..

Haven't we been hear before in this thread?

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Boring? No way. The man was complex, miserable, misogynist and a hypochondriac but there's a lot of black humour in his writing and his writing style was ground-breaking. Even now it can seem avant-garde. His influence isn't just in literature or the hackneyed phrase 'Kafkaesque' either. He used to write chapters non-chronologically and then put them together in order at the end. David Bowie copied that technique. (Not a lot of people know that).

In the same way that Brightonians owe it to themselves to read Brighton Rock, you really shoud read The Trial at least. It's mind-blowing.

....I've killed this thread now, haven't I?

I want to echo this point. The Trial is a brilliant, brilliant book. Very possibly my all time favourite. Everybody should read it.

I've spent a number of years flirting with the idea of getting the opening line tattooed somewhere about my body. A fear of looking a massively pretentious nobhead has prevented me from doing it.

 

[Silk]

Haven't we been hear before in this thread?

Usually a lefty things some things are shit, and a right winger thinks other things are shit. And the things the lefty thinks are shit, the right winger thinks are great, and vice versa.

 

[MarioOrlandi]

This is a really good article that goes some way to explaining why (it's trending at the moment, so will take a few seconds to load)

If you can't be arsed to read it, it's essentially saying it's not a good time to be a worker.

http://www.pieria.co.uk/articles/the_central_paradox_of_the_21st_century

What the article highlights is that technology has created unemployment, before I am shot down the essence being that items which were handmade "crafted" are now produced by robots. A factory which employed a thousand people now only needs a hundred to tend the machines. Every item in the market place today either is/can be mass produced. When you take your car to the garage the "mechanic" plugs it into a computer there is no need for experience anymore only speed in repair/replacement. A great many university degrees used to be on the job training.

 

[Silk]

All depends on your perspective of an easy life doesn't it.
By easy life I mean by not wanting to achieve anything and staying at home doing nothing they will always have a roof over there heads they will always have food in the cupboard.

Would these people stand up and defend us if it was required like our grandparents did, I don't think so.
I don't get the mentality of the mindset of this approach to life , it would not have happened 70 years which is the centre of my original post

But remove the safety net that lets some people live an "easy" life, as you put it, and far more people will live a shitty life, since there aren't enough jobs. But you think leaving millions starving would make Britain a better place. Maybe you need to think a bit harder.

 

[Bakero]

I want to echo this point. The Trial is a brilliant, brilliant book. Very possibly my all time favourite. Everybody should read it.

I've spent a number of years flirting with the idea of getting the opening line tattooed somewhere about my body. A fear of looking a massively pretentious nobhead has prevented me from doing it.

Thirded.

 

[Questions]

I want to echo this point. The Trial is a brilliant, brilliant book. Very possibly my all time favourite. Everybody should read it.

I've spent a number of years flirting with the idea of getting the opening line tattooed somewhere about my body. A fear of looking a massively pretentious nobhead has prevented me from doing it.

Go for it, I reckon it would look great.

 

[Garage_Doors]

But remove the safety net that lets some people live an "easy" life, as you put it, and far more people will live a shitty life, since there aren't enough jobs. But you think leaving millions starving would make Britain a better place. Maybe you need to think a bit harder.

Fair point when you look at the view point, just seems there are more than the fair share of takers reducing the pot for the more deserving.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Fair point when you look at the view point, just seems there are more than the fair shaw of takers.

You've been out on the beers all day haven't you!?

 

[Garage_Doors]

you'd probably be too thick to understand it.

Still going to the lowest form. Well done.

 

[Garage_Doors]

You've been out on the beers all day haven't you!?

I'm a non drinker.

 

[Silk]

I'm a non drinker.

Perhaps you should have a drink, then.

 

[Garage_Doors]

Perhaps you should have a drink, then.

Isn't that like telling a non smoker to have a fag

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

I think you are young and naive, I would argue in society “people” are far more politically extreme (and intolerant of others) in their youth than they are in their older mellowing years. The vast majority of political and religious violence today (and historically) is largely driven by young, naive idealists. Show me the rioting geriatrics being assuaged by their peace loving younger peers and I may concede defeat on this point.

History shows us what one generation is intolerant of the next will tolerate and the following will embrace. Civil rights is a prime example of this. Statistically young people are far more likely to be against forms of prejudice such as racism, sexism and homophobia. Of course young people are prone to be more passionate and pursue more active forms of political and religious activism resulting in both positive and negative effects, such as your rioting scenario.

As for the demographic of UKIP voters I know I am right, all of the current analysis proves that UKIP receive a significant amount of its support from over 60s, and the indications (from eminent political commentators) is that this support is even greater amongst over 80s. There is nothing absurd about that considered assessment, and if you want to believe it is conjecture, more fool you.

Of course it's absurd, your point regarding veterans probably being UKIP supporters is based on nothing but conjecture. The recent EU turnout was 34% of the electorate with UKIP netting 4,376,635 ( 27.5%) of the vote. If we say that UKIP's 60+ demographic counts for a generous 60% of that number then the over 60 vote would account for 700,261 votes. Now according to the office of national statistics the current estimate is that 13,262,256 people are over 60 in the UK. So putting that together that would suggest 5.3% of people over 60, in the entire UK, voted UKIP. Hardly a statistic that backs up your hypothesis suggesting a majority of support amongst veterans would go in UKIP’s favour. And of course we also mustn’t forget that statistics do not reflect the individual.

Indeed, only an imbecile would could conflate two diametrically opposing position by one the one hand venerating the older generations for their supreme sacrifice in WWII and then attacking all UKIP voters as intolerant fascists.

I never said all UKIP voters were intolerant fascists. I did however point out that the tactics employed by UKIP AND the BNP to gain votes is remarkably similar to the way MANY right wing governments/ politicians dehumanise minorities and sew discontent amongst the public. I see those similarities in tactics and the intolerance within these parties and I question what those who fought and died might have to say considering they gave their lives fighting against those with similar views.

Now, let’s take a look at your second paragraph. You may want to believe the facile schmaltz you are curling out about the motives of why British people fought in WWII, however the facts are that many many more would have fought out of duty, patriotism and the belief that Britain should remain the master of its own destiny.

I’m sure that many people did fight out of a sense of duty and patriotism but having lost 8 million men only two decades previously the British people would need far more than a sense of duty to be convinced to take up arms again so shortly after losing an entire generation. Regardless of what individual motives were that still doesn't change the fact that that they fought against all of the things I mentioned in my previous post.

 

[Tarpon]

are they the allies who were allies with Hitler until he turned on them ?

Yep. And we would have been screwed without them so I'm not too precious about it.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Fair point when you look at the view point, just seems there are more than the fair share of takers reducing the pot for the more deserving.

What about those who work no harder than you or me, but pay minimal tax, if any? Why are the work shy always the focus of these sorts of social campaigns?

You can hark back all you like. Seventy years ago there were people that took the proverbial and didn't work. Thankfully, society has moved on and the offspring are not guaranteed to be sent out to beg or live in filth.

 

[BadFish]

Fair point when you look at the view point, just seems there are more than the fair share of takers reducing the pot for the more deserving.

There are many takers from the pot I agree with you here. But choosing to blame those takers who still have little over those who have much is ridiculous.

The source of our problems lies in the unfair distribution of wealth. If you are looking for people whos effort is far less than their reward then try looking up the pyramid.

 

[beorhthelm]

What about those who work no harder than you or me, but pay minimal tax, if any?

what about them? what is the link between those that earn their way and those that dont and get a hand out? i dont know anyone that pays the most tax they possibly could and bet you dont either. lets put this in perspective, there have always been poor and the underclass. in the modern world we are just more aware of them, they are more visable because of media and because we dont tend to send them to a workhouse or something out of the way. in the past they had to fend for themselfs or relie on charity. now that the charity is the state, we feel a bit aggrieved when we see them, because we (everyone not on benefits) paid for them. getting more tax from some that work isnt going to chance any of this, you'll just spend more.

 

[Silk]

what about them? what is the link between those that earn their way and those that dont and get a hand out? i dont know anyone that pays the most tax they possibly could and bet you dont either. lets put this in perspective, there have always been poor and the underclass. in the modern world we are just more aware of them, they are more visable because of media and because we dont tend to send them to a workhouse or something out of the way. in the past they had to fend for themselfs or relie on charity. now that the charity is the state, we feel a bit aggrieved when we see them, because we (everyone not on benefits) paid for them. getting more tax from some that work isnt going to chance any of this, you'll just spend more.

But collecting the correct taxes from those better able to pay them would mean fewer cuts impacting the poor and vulnerable.