Vote Tory for a..umm...err..we sort of might have a sort of referendum on Europe.

[Nibble]

Why do we have ambassadors to NATO ? Iceland is a member purely for its geographical importance, do you SERIOUSLY think that the germany of today , where we co-operate so closely within NATO is one we could go to war with ? Anyway , back to your point about the English channel, I ask again , if the 25 miles of open water DIDNT stop Hitler, can you let me know exactly when he did invade, and how and why its been kept so quiet ?

Didn't he get onto Guernsey?

 

[dingodan]

[MENTION=5707]Nibble[/MENTION]

Some of The steering committee: Marcus Agius, the chairman of Barclays; Mario Monte, the Italian Prime Minister; Craig Mundie, the Chief Research Officer for Microsoft; Peter Thiel, one of the venture capitalists behind Facebook; Kenneth Clarke, the British Secretary of Justice; and Jorma Ollila, the chairman of Royal Dutch Shell.

Attendees in recent years: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, World Bank president Robert Zoellick, European Commission head José Manuel Barroso, Queen Sofia of Spain and Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands.

They are just meeting behind closed doors for a knees up right?

Behave.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I don't get this open debate thing ?

There has been open debate about this for the last 50 years in and around Westminster, since we fist applied to join the EEC in the early sixties. If you haven't been involved in the last 50 years of open debate then that is down to you.
There is still huge disagreement over all kinds of aspects of our relationship with Europe but the vast majority of people who have been involved in these debates know that leaving Europe would be economic suicide.

That is why all the major political parties are in agreement and none would willingly endorse an In/Out referendum. (And why the current Government are trying to avoid one).

But don't let that get in the way of a good NSC binfest.

 

[User removed 4]

Didn't he get onto Guernsey?

he got onto all the channel islands, seriously, you're clutching at straws if you are trying to compare that in any way to an invasion of mainland britain.

 

[Nibble]

[MENTION=5707]Nibble[/MENTION]

Some of The steering committee: Marcus Agius, the chairman of Barclays; Mario Monte, the Italian Prime Minister; Craig Mundie, the Chief Research Officer for Microsoft; Peter Thiel, one of the venture capitalists behind Facebook; Kenneth Clarke, the British Secretary of Justice; and Jorma Ollila, the chairman of Royal Dutch Shell.

Attendees in recent years: Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, World Bank president Robert Zoellick, European Commission head José Manuel Barroso, Queen Sofia of Spain and Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands.

They are just meeting behind closed doors for a knees up right?

Behave.

You really aren't telling me anything I don't know and have known for decades, ever since Ike and his followers decided to latch on to it. Have you ever wondered if it's that much of a closely guarded secret, how do dweebs from the internet much like yourself produce a list if attendees? No thought not.

And of course influential figures are invited, they are hardly gonna invite the local Subways Franchisee are they? Hells Bells man, this is unhealthy.

 

[HovaGirl]

Cameron is shitting himself about UKIP. He is no statesman that is for sure.

Neither is Nigel Farage.

 

[Albumen]

Dear Europe, please accept our apologies for the chump in charge at the moment, hopefully he won't be there for long.

 

[HovaGirl]

As it used to in the past. The UK was a member EFTA before joining the Common Market. Yes the Common Market that's what people voted to join back in 1970's not a political free loading EU.

Absolutely. And a Common Market would still work. We do not need Europe telling us how to run our own country, or anybody else's. That's what we vote in our Governments for.

 

[beorhthelm]

I would take the anti EU brigade more seriously if they weren't already known for their "Immigrants are the sole cause of London's problems and we are being dictated to by Europe every day, PC gone mad I tells thee" stance on global politics. Honestly, some of your posts read like an Al Murray script.

As for me I can see plusses and minuses for both arguments but don't feel ultimately it is in our best interest to leave. Mt argument against UKIP isn't that they have a different view on Europe it's that they are a spectacular nonsense of "party".

yes, the racists and general nutters dont help the eurosceptic cause. but they dont represent all those opposed to the lack of real democracy, unaccountable buracracy, wastfullness and general fuckwittery of the EU and its institutions. the pro-EU brigade would do themselves a favor to address the concerns and not appear to want to rush head long into ever further and deeper political and economic integregration, without first acknowledging and resolving alot of the problems at its foundation. the risk is, and we are seeing a glimpse of it with the economics in some countries right now, that the EU will spectacularly implode in the future due to widespread dissaffection caused by injustices built in to the EU.

 

[User removed 4]

You really aren't telling me anything I don't know and have known for decades, ever since Ike and his followers decided to latch on to it. Have you ever wondered if it's that much of a closely guarded secret an dweebs from the internet much like yourself are able to produce a list if attendees? No thought not.

are you the bully from an american high school movie ?

 

[HovaGirl]

All it takes is proper renegotiation. For me that means being in control of our borders, because I am sick of what has happened in this country as regards mass immigration. We have been taken for a ride on this issue. These stupid open door policies of free movement have failed miserably. It was meant to encourage two way traffic, but all the traffic has been one way to richer countries in the EU.

Exactly.

 

[CheeseRolls]

So come on, where's the statement from the US or the Commonwealth that they would stop trading with us ? The US have said they would prefer they we stayed in but that's a world apart from saying they won't trade with us.

Normal pro-EU scaremongering.

That is a seriously dumb point to make in an argument. Do you have even the faintest grasp of economics ?

 

[Nibble]

he got onto all the channel islands, seriously, you're clutching at straws if you are trying to compare that in any way to an invasion of mainland britain.

don't worry I'm not in the slightest!

 

[Nibble]

are you the bully from an american high school movie ?

Yes

 

[User removed 4]

That is a seriously dumb point to make in an argument. Do you have even the faintest grasp of economics ?

I'm not sure of his grasp of economics but his point is valid, the USA wants us as part of Europe for geo-political reasons, the same way that they are encouraging Turkish membership, no more no less.What economic point are you trying to make ?

 

[HovaGirl]

There are just TWO European countries happily existing outside the EU and both of them have fairly unique circumstances which allow them to prosper. Norway and Switzerland are among the wealthiest nations on earth, for different reasons, and with fairly small populations they can look after their own using their vast resources.

Every other European nation that's not a member state of the EU wants in.

There is this idea that Britain is too big and important to have to listen to other people but frankly this just isn't true. Despite our incredible history and cultural significance we just aren't THAT powerful and important a nation anymore. We don't have the sound economic footing to fall back on and leaving the EU would be a disaster. There's also the very real possibility that such a referendum spurs on little Englanders who believe leaving the EU means kicking out all the Poles and Bulgarians etc. which then becomes an ugly racial mess.

I don't believe such a referendum will actually go ahead for the reason that most sensible people know it would be an absolute disaster for the UK if we were to leave the EU and unfortunately the general public are largely morons so a vote could see us opt out and sink like a big brown stone.

Of course it isn't perfect BUT what do people actually think we're going to gain from turning our back on the Union?

We don't have to turn our back on the Union, we just don't have to get any more integrated into it, financially or politically. What we need, is for us, and other states if they want it, to back-pedal on just how much power the unelected minions in Brussels have over our sovereignty.

 

[User removed 4]

Yes

its a word ive only ever seen used when the high school football start humiliates someone in front of his girlfriend at a diner

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Exactly.

Really, what about all those ex-pats who live on the Spanish Costas, or the South of France, or Greece............

Plenty of UK Citizens now live and work on Mainland Europe, but from the perspective we get from our blinkered press, we never get to hear about them.

We had mass immigration from the Commonwealth and former Colonies long before we were members of the EU. Is it because a Black West Indian or a Pakistani Asian is more acceptable than a Romanian or a Pole? We had a longstanding obligation from their association with the Armed Forces to allow Gurkhas from Nepal to be awarded Pensions and settle here, but it took a Campaign from a celebrity, and a ruling by the EU Courts to make it happen, and it was the Westminster Government who were trying to oppose it.

I'm sceptical about any Government, be it Westminster or Brussels, and trust Politicians no further than I can spit - but there needs to be a channel of communication with our nearest geographical neighbours and the EU is the one we currently have.

 

[Nibble]

its a word ive only ever seen used when the high school football start humiliates someone in front of his girlfriend at a diner

Haha! It's a word I associate withe these conspiracy bongos. The sort of people that go out looking for Big Cats on Box Hill with a packed lunch of fish paste sandwiches and a flask of weak lemon squash packed by Mum or their fat goth girlfriends.

 

[soistes]

I don't get this open debate thing ?

There has been open debate about this for the last 50 years in and around Westminster, since we fist applied to join the EEC in the early sixties. If you haven't been involved in the last 50 years of open debate then that is down to you.
There is still huge disagreement over all kinds of aspects of our relationship with Europe but the vast majority of people who have been involved in these debates know that leaving Europe would be economic suicide.

That is why all the major political parties are in agreement and none would willingly endorse an In/Out referendum. (And why the current Government are trying to avoid one).

But don't let that get in the way of a good NSC binfest.

Spot on, but far too straightforward and balanced a view for this thread, I'm afraid