Unemployment benefit/government handouts.

[User removed 4]

Maybe it is but what's the solution? You say they should be forced into work, OK, but that means you have to force someone to employ them. Who?

Also, you're completely missing the ppoint that there are more unemployed people than there are jobs available, a LOT more. Personally I believe that finding jobs for people that want them is more important than forcing scroungers into work. If there was enough work, I;d be happy to force them to do it, but not when doing so effectively takes a job away from someone who actually wants it.

Then why, pray tell, have we , and still are letting in over 3 million immigrants from outside the EU since 1997 , as well as the EU ones , which we had the choice not to ?? In anybodys book, the economics dont add up.

 

[User removed 4]

Maybe it is but what's the solution? You say they should be forced into work, OK, but that means you have to force someone to employ them. Who? Also, you're completely missing the ppoint that there are more unemployed people than there are jobs available, a LOT more. Personally I believe that finding jobs for people that want them is more important than forcing scroungers into work. If there was enough work, I;d be happy to force them to do it, but not when doing so effectively takes a job away from someone who actually wants it.

believe me, their outlook and attitude would change faced with a choice of work or starvation.

 

[Nibble]

Then why, pray tell, have we , and still are letting in over 3 million immigrants from outside the EU since 1997 , as well as the EU ones , which we had the choice not to ?? In anybodys book, the economics dont add up.

Because many of them would have been raped, tortured and murdered if we didn't offer them a safe haven and because most right thinking people don't like to see other humans treated in such a fashion we helped them. Next question?

 

[User removed 4]

It takes a special kind of person to leave their home country and move thousands of miles to live in a foreign country, especially if you don't know the language. Eastern European countries have just as many workshy scroungers as we do, we just don't tend to meet them becuase they, like ours, can;t be bothered to get off their arses and go and look for work elsewhere.

The ones who come to Britain tend to either have work experience and come to England for the better pay (this includes tradesmen, builders etc.) or be very well educated and looking to make money and improve their language skills.

It's the same in Cyprus, there are LOADS of Eastern Europeans and Russians here. Most of the men who come over are skilled manual workers who tend to work at three times the speed and double the skill of the Cypriot workers. Most of the (non-Russian) girls who come over work as waitresses and bar workers. Being a fairly socialble chap who drinks a lot, I know a lot of these very well. Nearly all of them have University degrees. They tend to come to Cyprus with weak English and no Greek, and then within a few months are fluent in both languages, and often Russian as well. One example is Judith who's Hungarian, she came to Cyprus speaking little English but with a degree in Leisure and Tourism. She already spoke Hungarian and Romanian and a little English. She's now fluent in English, Greek and Russian and taken exams to prove it. She's now left the island to take up a highly paid job as a hostess on a cruise ship, her dream job.

It was the same in Brighton, I ran a mobile disco business and did a lot of work in the seafront hotels. A lot of the Polish girls working in them were doing so to improve their English. Once their English was good enough they went back to Poland where they were now highly desirable for the 5 star hotels there.

No they dont, the welfare systems are nowhere near as generous as ours.

 

[User removed 4]

Because many of them would have been raped, tortured and murdered if we didn't offer them a safe haven and because most right thinking people don't like to see other humans treated in such a fashion we helped them. Next question?

Any other fairy tales you still believe in ?

 

[fork me]

Same old bushy, try and hijack every debate into yet another one on immigration, using over-simplistic, dated, and just plain wrong arguments.

 

[Simster]

No they dont, the welfare systems are nowhere near as generous as ours.

His point here still stands - the Eastern Europeans coming over here are the dynamic ones. They are also helping save our pension industry as they come here, pay national insurance on earning and then go home again 5 years later when they've made their money while not claiming back that national insurance!

 

[User removed 4]

Same old bushy, try and hijack every debate into yet another one on immigration, using over-simplistic, dated, and just plain wrong arguments.

Not at all, simple question which you've avoided, because to answer truthfully would expose the folly of recent immigration policy the topics are interlinked , I dont agree with the original poster but you cant expect to argue that there are more unemployed people than jobs, and expect people not to raise the question of why we are we have let in over 3 million people that we didnt have to.

 

[User removed 4]

His point here still stands - the Eastern Europeans coming over here are the dynamic ones. They are also helping save our pension industry as they come here, pay national insurance on earning and then go home again 5 years later when they've made their money while not claiming back that national insurance!

Some are, but I wouldnt call working in starbucks, picking vegetables in east anglia, washing cars in sainsburys or handing out copies of city am particularly dynamic, admirable maybe , but not exactly setting the world alight, while also pricing out british workers by being able to live 10 to a house while sending a large proportion of their wages home, out of our economy, to say nothing of the ones who have babies here , go home after a couple of years but are still able to claim child benefit until the child is 16. like I said previously, i think the original poster was making a ridiculous statement, but there are plenty of unemployed british , who could, and should be doing these jobs, one thing that should be looked at is the minimum wage , if a firm cant make a profit by paying someone £ 8 an hour, then perhaps they shouldnt be in business.

 

[Nibble]

Any other fairy tales you still believe in ?

Sorry? Oh I forgot you are the resident forward thinker. If you are presented with a FACT you don't agree with you just call it a lie. What a fantastic way to debate.

 

[User removed 4]

Sorry? Oh I forgot you are the resident forward thinker. If you are presented with a FACT you don't agree with you just call it a lie. What a fantastic way to debate.

No, you've presented a lie as fact, you clown.

 

[Kumquat]

Some are, but I wouldnt call working in starbucks, picking vegetables in east anglia, washing cars in sainsburys or handing out copies of city am particularly dynamic, admirable maybe , but not exactly setting the world alight, while also pricing out british workers by being able to live 10 to a house while sending a large proportion of their wages home, out of our economy, to say nothing of the ones who have babies here , go home after a couple of years but are still able to claim child benefit until the child is 16. like I said previously, i think the original poster was making a ridiculous statement, but there are plenty of unemployed british , who could, and should be doing these jobs, one thing that should be looked at is the minimum wage , if a firm cant make a profit by paying someone £ 8 an hour, then perhaps they shouldnt be in business.

Was going to say I think you should focus on the minimum wage issue not the immigration one. That's the real problem here. Living costs have gone up but wages haven't at the same rate. I've always said if you can't pay someone £8 an hour or more then you shouldn't have a business. Unfortunately a Tory govt is never going to raise the minimum wage significantly. But the reason that east europeans are prepared to do these jobs is because they are used to working hard for very little money.

 

[Nibble]

No, you've presented a lie as fact, you clown.

So now I have to ask you to prove it's a lie and to prove your facts to which the reply will be something along the lines of "It just is you guardian reading lefty clown" and I present you with a list of countries with appalling human rights records and the legitimate reasons why people seek asylum in Britain and then you deny these facts? Picture a dog chasing it's own tail.

 

[Aadam]

Then why, pray tell, have we , and still are letting in over 3 million immigrants from outside the EU since 1997 , as well as the EU ones , which we had the choice not to ?? In anybodys book, the economics dont add up.

So that's 200,000 non-EU a year then? In the grand scheme of things, that's not a great deal for a 60m population, what it is, around .3% or something. Net migration on the whole is at about 250,000 a year, so it's not really the epidemic you're trying to make out that it is. People are still being turned away at the ports and denied entry into the UK.

Was going to say I think you should focus on the minimum wage issue not the immigration one. That's the real problem here. Living costs have gone up but wages haven't at the same rate. I've always said if you can't pay someone £8 an hour or more then you shouldn't have a business. Unfortunately a Tory govt is never going to raise the minimum wage significantly. But the reason that east europeans are prepared to do these jobs is because they are used to working hard for very little money.

This. Immigration is not as big a problem as people make out.

 

[Aadam]

So now I have to ask you to prove it's a lie and to prove your facts to which the reply will be something along the lines of "It just is you guardian reading lefty clown" and I present you with a list of countries with appalling human rights records and the legitimate reasons why people seek asylum in Britain and then you deny these facts? Picture a dog chasing it's own tail.

He is not far wrong. There were under 5,000 asylum applications last year. In the grand scheme of things when talking about immigration, it's not big. Nearly 600,000 immigrants so that's less that 1% that are here seeking asylum.

 

[User removed 4]

So that's 200,000 non-EU a year then? In the grand scheme of things, that's not a great deal for a 60m population, what it is, around .3% or something. Net migration on the whole is at about 250,000 a year, so it's not really the epidemic you're trying to make out that it is. People are still being turned away at the ports and denied entry into the UK.




This. Immigration is not as big a problem as people make out.

For starters, we didnt have a 60 million population when labour took office, and these are the numbers we KNOW about, and of course immigration isnt as big a problem as people make out..............................as long as you dont live in an inner city with a high immigrant population , or are unemployed with an immigrant doing the job at a rate you simply couldnt afford to support a family on.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Some are, but I wouldnt call working in starbucks, picking vegetables in east anglia, washing cars in sainsburys or handing out copies of city am particularly dynamic, admirable maybe , but not exactly setting the world alight, while also pricing out british workers by being able to live 10 to a house while sending a large proportion of their wages home, out of our economy, to say nothing of the ones who have babies here , go home after a couple of years but are still able to claim child benefit until the child is 16. like I said previously, i think the original poster was making a ridiculous statement, but there are plenty of unemployed british , who could, and should be doing these jobs, one thing that should be looked at is the minimum wage , if a firm cant make a profit by paying someone £ 8 an hour, then perhaps they shouldnt be in business.

Oi, this is my line.

 

[Nibble]

He is not far wrong. There were under 5,000 asylum applications last year. In the grand scheme of things when talking about immigration, it's not big. Nearly 600,000 immigrants so that's less that 1% that are here seeking asylum.

Well, you can support anything with facts can't you

 

[User removed 4]

Oi, this is my line.

i saw you had quoted me and was expecting a bucketload, but its true isnt it, and lets be honest i plucked £8 out of thin air, that really should be the absolute minimum.

 

[Nibble]

It's a natural thing to blame outsiders when you have problems yourself. It's childlike, it's bullying, it's false but for some people it is a natural default behaviour.