Unemployment benefit/government handouts.

[Herr Tubthumper]

Cant disagree there,... my Uncle( age 53) is a security gate guard at a paper mills, nothing grand at all, works about 42 hour week, gets 12 weeks holiday, ( 25 years service), and earns the equivilent of £37k.... I was amazed. He also got all his work clothing free, and dry cleaned free once a month.

Interestingly I found cars to be much more expensive over there, but everything else moderately priced,... houses were half the price of here at least.

I will add this anecdote to my pro-Germany armory. Thanks.

 

[Nibble]

So f***ing what?

Can you point out where I have advocated a "foreigners out" policy or is this another autistic fantasy of yours, and what the f*** has my views on the Royals and the Queen got to do with this thread?

I can't tell whether you are confused or retarded............on one hand you dont think the country of origin of criminals is relevant, but on the other hand you do think we should be able to deport criminals? How can we do the latter without the former?

You may want to buy the world a coke, but the world dont work like that, you only want to see the good aspects of immigration (of which there are plenty) and want to hide the bad (of which there are plenty).

I am not trying make any other point other than to counter your myopic enthusiasm for immigration. Life is just not that simple..........but evidently you are.

Perhaps it's my fault for not making things simple enough for you but if I were to do so I would just be repeating my previous posts so may I suggest if you need further explanation you re-read them if you have the inclination? I disagree with your stance on immigration, there doesn't seem to be much more I can do to explain that to you.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Life is just not that simple.

For you, maybe not. But I get the impression you struggle with the most simple of daily tasks.

 

[cunning fergus]

For you, maybe not. But I get the impression you struggle with the most simple of daily tasks.

Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall.

hast du benutzt Google?

 

[sydney]

Ah, you must have been getting your information from our friends at the Daily Mail. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278221/61million-live-Britain-Migrant-boom-fuels-3m-rise-1997.html

Whilst I agree that some jobs are taken by immigrants, the fact is that English people are LAZY. My dad owns an agency for HGV drivers, and the amount of drivers that turn down work is unbelievable. He is trying to give money away and the English drivers are always so unreliable. Whereas the foreign workers (of which are paid the same rates) are more reliable and always willing and asking for work.

Granted this is just within one industry, and was from a few years ago when work was plentiful, but I think it's still a valid real life story if you're looking at the comparison between English and foreign workers.

Anyway, I seem to be arguing for both sides here. I guess after being employed for 12 years from college with no gap in employment it's not always easy to see the situation that others do.

on another facet of the multi-sided object........my brother has been in the building industry for most of his life , up until three years ago he was a specialised dry liner , being paid metre rates for his output.....he has steadily seen his rates of pay erroded to a point where he would now be earning about a third of what he was earning 3 years ago for the same output........i saw "would" as ,unfortunately, what little work is available these days would seem to be kept within the rather sizeable polish contingent with project/site agents being also poles .......good luck to the poles i say........as he doesn't speak their language , he sometimes struggles making himself understood when calling to enquire about work as even the office workers are poles with the office actually being in poland , it is the same for ceramic tilers , roofing contractors , steel erectors and a whole raft of other " semi skilled " trades............this to me is just plain wrong and i can easily see why there are entire generations of English prepared to just sit on their arses and live on the dole........very ,very sad.

 

[cunning fergus]

Perhaps it's my fault for not making things simple enough for you but if I were to do so I would just be repeating my previous posts so may I suggest if you need further explanation you re-read them if you have the inclination? I disagree with your stance on immigration, there doesn't seem to be much more I can do to explain that to you.

I have read your posts...........they are nonsense. You quote me as advocating a "foreigners out" policy............I ask you to point out where that quote from me comes from and you ignore it. Show me where I said that? You say the origin of criminals is not relevant........despite Sussex Police /Govt stats indicating different; I am not making reactionary statments based on emotional feelings or anecdotes. You can ignore the facts fine.......they wont be diminshed.

I know you disagree with me but apart from your extremist mates you will disagree with everyone. Only last week Miliband held a press conference to apologise for Labour's policy on immigration. This was telling, they know they are losing the argument on the doorstep. That is a FACT, there is no other explanation given the years they spent defending their policy.

This is not new of course, Balls apologised in Parliament in September last year for Labour's failure to regulate the UK financial services.........no mention of global recession.

I dare say you think you are liberal and open minded, but you are not you are an intransigent bigot unwilling to even flex your views to the facts, like a more gentle negative image of Anders Brevik.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

on another facet of the multi-sided object........my brother has been in the building industry for most of his life , up until three years ago he was a specialised dry liner , being paid metre rates for his output.....he has steadily seen his rates of pay erroded to a point where he would now be earning about a third of what he was earning 3 years ago for the same output........i saw "would" as ,unfortunately, what little work is available these days would seem to be kept within the rather sizeable polish contingent with project/site agents being also poles .......good luck to the poles i say........as he doesn't speak their language , he sometimes struggles making himself understood when calling to enquire about work as even the office workers are poles with the office actually being in poland , it is the same for ceramic tilers , roofing contractors , steel erectors and a whole raft of other " semi skilled " trades............this to me is just plain wrong and i can easily see why there are entire generations of English prepared to just sit on their arses and live on the dole........very ,very sad.

The building industry needs a good look at itself as well. And we do for buying the new-build shit they offer us. We need to shift to a system where we sell by the square metre, raise the lowest acceptable footprint size and have minimum standards of construction.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Cant disagree there,... my Uncle( age 53) is a security gate guard at a paper mills, nothing grand at all, works about 42 hour week, gets 12 weeks holiday, ( 25 years service), and earns the equivilent of £37k.... I was amazed. He also got all his work clothing free, and dry cleaned free once a month.

Interestingly I found cars to be much more expensive over there, but everything else moderately priced,... houses were half the price of here at least.

Another thing is that this approach has an element of self-fulfilment ; a happy and confident workforce not only works hard and is loyal but a confident employee also spends more and let's face it your uncle not only has a decent income to spend but the local work clothing shop makes a sale and the dry-cleaner gets work. I hazard a guess and say your uncle is a happy man and after 25 years probably feels part of something?

The sad thing about the UK is that I bet if your uncle had similar pay for similar work over here then he would be the target of envy in our grand race to the bottom where we target train drivers which are perceived to earn a king’s ransom when in reality they get a fair wage for a responsible and skilled position and often work shift and crap hours.

And as for cars, I am not a car person and have only ever owned one vehicle but German cars have something quite graceful about them. Even their taxis are walnut dashboarded leather seated Mercs. And why do they drive Mercs? Buying any other vehicle is a false economy apparently.

 

[Nibble]

I have read your posts...........they are nonsense. You quote me as advocating a "foreigners out" policy............I ask you to point out where that quote from me comes from and you ignore it. Show me where I said that? You say the origin of criminals is not relevant........despite Sussex Police /Govt stats indicating different; I am not making reactionary statments based on emotional feelings or anecdotes. You can ignore the facts fine.......they wont be diminshed.

I know you disagree with me but apart from your extremist mates you will disagree with everyone. Only last week Miliband held a press conference to apologise for Labour's policy on immigration. This was telling, they know they are losing the argument on the doorstep. That is a FACT, there is no other explanation given the years they spent defending their policy.

This is not new of course, Balls apologised in Parliament in September last year for Labour's failure to regulate the UK financial services.........no mention of global recession.

I dare say you think you are liberal and open minded, but you are not you are an intransigent bigot unwilling to even flex your views to the facts, like a more gentle negative image of Anders Brevik.

Well it's likely I won't be changing your view of me anytime soon.

 

[somerset]

Another thing is that this approach has an element of self-fulfilment ; a happy and confident workforce not only works hard and is loyal but a confident employee also spends more and let's face it your uncle not only has a decent income to spend but the local work clothing shop makes a sale and the dry-cleaner gets work. I hazard a guess and say your uncle is a happy man and after 25 years probably feels part of something?

The sad thing about the UK is that I bet if your uncle had similar pay for similar work over here then he would be the target of envy in our grand race to the bottom where we target train drivers which are perceived to earn a king’s ransom when in reality they get a fair wage for a responsible and skilled position and often work shift and crap hours.

And as for cars, I am not a car person and have only ever owned one vehicle but German cars have something quite graceful about them. Even their taxis are walnut dashboarded leather seated Mercs. And why do they drive Mercs? Buying any other vehicle is a false economy apparently.

Pricing generally I noticed was about what the value of the item was with the relevant markup, as opposed to here where I am finding that we get charged as much as they think they can get away with...... greed.

 

[sydney]

The building industry needs a good look at itself as well. And we do for buying the new-build shit they offer us. We need to shift to a system where we sell by the square metre, raise the lowest acceptable footprint size and have minimum standards of construction.

yeh , and the majority of new build is carried out by who.......?we used to have the best builders in the world....in fact we still do , it's just most of them have jumped ship and migrated abroad.........oh the irony.

developers don't give a shit about the quality of the work ....they only care about the bottom line........if they have to have a couple of semi-retired old boys going around fixing all the f*** ups on 300 quid a week,it's no big deal.

minimum standard would require the use of competent tradesmen on a decent wage.......that's the major stumbling block for the developers.

 

[sydney]

I have read your posts...........they are nonsense. You quote me as advocating a "foreigners out" policy............I ask you to point out where that quote from me comes from and you ignore it. Show me where I said that? You say the origin of criminals is not relevant........despite Sussex Police /Govt stats indicating different; I am not making reactionary statments based on emotional feelings or anecdotes. You can ignore the facts fine.......they wont be diminshed.

I know you disagree with me but apart from your extremist mates you will disagree with everyone. Only last week Miliband held a press conference to apologise for Labour's policy on immigration. This was telling, they know they are losing the argument on the doorstep. That is a FACT, there is no other explanation given the years they spent defending their policy.

This is not new of course, Balls apologised in Parliament in September last year for Labour's failure to regulate the UK financial services.........no mention of global recession.

I dare say you think you are liberal and open minded, but you are not you are an intransigent bigot unwilling to even flex your views to the facts, like a more gentle negative image of Anders Brevik.

intransigent is an excellent word in this instance.

 

[Aadam]

on another facet of the multi-sided object........my brother has been in the building industry for most of his life , up until three years ago he was a specialised dry liner , being paid metre rates for his output.....he has steadily seen his rates of pay erroded to a point where he would now be earning about a third of what he was earning 3 years ago for the same output........i saw "would" as ,unfortunately, what little work is available these days would seem to be kept within the rather sizeable polish contingent with project/site agents being also poles .......good luck to the poles i say........as he doesn't speak their language , he sometimes struggles making himself understood when calling to enquire about work as even the office workers are poles with the office actually being in poland , it is the same for ceramic tilers , roofing contractors , steel erectors and a whole raft of other " semi skilled " trades............this to me is just plain wrong and i can easily see why there are entire generations of English prepared to just sit on their arses and live on the dole........very ,very sad.

This I agree, is very sad.

 

[Nibble]

intransigent is an excellent word in this instance.

It is an excellent word. Completely at odds with my stance and my posts but on it's own merits a super word.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

yeh , and the majority of new build is carried out by who.......?we used to have the best builders in the world....in fact we still do , it's just most of them have jumped ship and migrated abroad.........oh the irony.

developers don't give a shit about the quality of the work ....they only care about the bottom line........if they have to have a couple of semi-retired old boys going around fixing all the f*** ups on 300 quid a week,it's no big deal.

minimum standard would require the use of competent tradesmen on a decent wage.......that's the major stumbling block for the developers.

I guess you mean most new builds are bullt by Poles? Personally I do not have an issue with this per se. But I agree, mimimun standard should be competent tradesmen and a decent wage...then it's a simple case of best person gets the job. But, a guy I was talking to was telling me about how the big construction workers cut every corner possible; he was a joiner and told me they had to use nails to secure the roof joists as a) the nails were cheaper and b) they were quicker to bang in as opposed to screwing a screw. It went against most things he had been taught. I have also spoken about pride in work places and the effect it has on communities, this guy was embarrassed by his work; I doubt he will ever drive past the estate he built and produly tell his children that the houses with the roofs missing were made with his fair hands.

 

[sydney]

I guess you mean most new builds are bullt by Poles? Personally I do not have an issue with this per se. But I agree, mimimun standard should be competent tradesmen and a decent wage...then it's a simple case of best person gets the job. But, a guy I was talking to was telling me about how the big construction workers cut every corner possible; he was a joiner and told me they had to use nails to secure the roof joists as a) the nails were cheaper and b) they were quicker to bang in as opposed to screwing a screw. It went against most things he had been taught. I have also spoken about pride in work places and the effect it has on communities, this guy was embarrassed by his work; I doubt he will ever drive past the estate he built and produly tell his children that the houses with the roofs missing were made with his fair hands.

ha ha nail on head .......bottom line over quality everytime......money talks mate , the "big " construction workers would be building to a certain specification printed up by the architect/engineer........to do otherwise would be a breach of contract. i have worked in the building industry in three different countries for over 30 years and i have NEVER seen a roof screwed together........triple grips and cyclone straps hit off with pneumatic fixings yes , but that is more expensive than screws/it is however the correct way which underlines how generally shit the building standards in the U.K must currently be.

 

[sydney]

It is an excellent word. Completely at odds with my stance and my posts but on it's own merits a super word.

think it refers to your ATTITUTUDE old boy.. along with DENIAL.....but hey that's alright , i guess we're all over the name calling now........git.*snigger*

 

[Seat Stealer]

Why do people confuse tax EVASION with AVOIDANCE. Jimmy Carr does not EVADE tax he AVOIDS tax. Many accountants have got wealthy helping the wealthy stay wealthy. However they do not break the law, only find loopholes in the governments own tax legislation. If the government want to stop tax avoidance close the loopholes. Simples! They can then afford to pay more for welfare. (Awaits)

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why do people confuse tax EVASION with AVOIDANCE. Jimmy Carr does not EVADE tax he AVOIDS tax. Many accountants have got wealthy helping the wealthy stay wealthy. However they do not break the law, only find loopholes in the governments own tax legislation. If the government want to stop tax avoidance close the loopholes. Simples! They can then afford to pay more for welfare. (Awaits)

At this moment in time we do not know if Carr is avoiding or evading do we? I thought the HMRC were going to investigate K2 and see if it was legal or not.