Unemployment benefit/government handouts.

[Aadam]

For starters, we didnt have a 60 million population when labour took office, and these are the numbers we KNOW about, and of course immigration isnt as big a problem as people make out..............................as long as you dont live in an inner city with a high immigrant population , or are unemployed with an immigrant doing the job at a rate you simply couldnt afford to support a family on.

Ah, you must have been getting your information from our friends at the Daily Mail. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278221/61million-live-Britain-Migrant-boom-fuels-3m-rise-1997.html

Whilst I agree that some jobs are taken by immigrants, the fact is that English people are LAZY. My dad owns an agency for HGV drivers, and the amount of drivers that turn down work is unbelievable. He is trying to give money away and the English drivers are always so unreliable. Whereas the foreign workers (of which are paid the same rates) are more reliable and always willing and asking for work.

Granted this is just within one industry, and was from a few years ago when work was plentiful, but I think it's still a valid real life story if you're looking at the comparison between English and foreign workers.

Anyway, I seem to be arguing for both sides here. I guess after being employed for 12 years from college with no gap in employment it's not always easy to see the situation that others do.

 

[User removed 4]

It's a natural thing to blame outsiders when you have problems yourself. It's childlike, it's bullying, it's false but for some people it is a natural default behaviour.

Oh for gods sake open your eyes,its not "blaming" anyone , its simple fact, if you live in a 2 bed flat you wouldnt ask 5 of your mates to move in , if we have 2.4 million unemployed chasing 400,000 jobs why are we still letting them in ?

 

[Aadam]

Well, you can support anything with facts can't you

Sorry, comes with the job.

 

[Nibble]

Oh for gods sake open your eyes,its not "blaming" anyone , its simple fact, if you live in a 2 bed flat you wouldnt ask 5 of your mates to move in , if we have 2.4 million unemployed chasing 400,000 jobs why are we still letting them in ?

It is laying the blame squarely on immigrants and immigration policy. You do it every time a discussion appears about politics/welfare state/horseracing/Mr Bean

 

[Silk]

I'll apply lessons learned at work. Shit happens because the people in charge make stupid, ill-informed, bad decisions, and are not in control of events. The more things go wrong, the more the people in charge make stupid, ill-informed, bad decisions. Then the people in charge get a golden handshake and peacefully retire to Eastbourne, blaming the mess on everyone else.

 

[Kumquat]

i saw you had quoted me and was expecting a bucketload, but its true isnt it, and lets be honest i plucked £8 out of thin air, that really should be the absolute minimum.

It's true. I just nicked your figure as well! Should be more than £8 definitely.

There are actually three different things at play here.

1) House prices. The lack of housing stock has led to an increase in rental prices which has been the biggest increase in the cost of living.

2) Migration. Now that cost of living affects everyone but many migrants have often been prepared to live more to a house to reduce costs and also to work in the pub trade where they can get subsidised accommodation. The picking industries often supply accommodation too. They are also prepared to work for less. The east europeans are not the only hard workers. The portuguese for example's biggest settlement in England is in Norfolk for the picking industry.

3) Minimum wage. This has not kept pace with the cost of living that people in this country are used to. So if you rent with a friend or partner your costs are going up and your wages in real terms are going down.

What's the answer?

1) Either pull out of Europe - jobs would then be available.
2) Increase the minimum wage considerably. May improve things but politically is likely to see businesses cut jobs rather than create them.
3) Start a massive housebuilding campaign. Train the jobless up to build houses. Get the f*** on with it. More houses means less demand, less potential for landlords to charge extortionate rent.
4) Get used to living on f*** all again. The good times are gone.

 

[User removed 4]

Ah, you must have been getting your information from our friends at the Daily Mail. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278221/61million-live-Britain-Migrant-boom-fuels-3m-rise-1997.html

Whilst I agree that some jobs are taken by immigrants, the fact is that English people are LAZY. My dad owns an agency for HGV drivers, and the amount of drivers that turn down work is unbelievable. He is trying to give money away and the English drivers are always so unreliable. Whereas the foreign workers (of which are paid the same rates) are more reliable and always willing and asking for work.

Granted this is just within one industry, and was from a few years ago when work was plentiful, but I think it's still a valid real life story if you're looking at the comparison between English and foreign workers.

Anyway, I seem to be arguing for both sides here. I guess after being employed for 12 years from college with no gap in employment it's not always easy to see the situation that others do.

no i'm getting my information from knowing what our population has been since i was a kid, and great generalisation on the fact that english people are LAZY , change that to blacks and lets hear the squeals of outrage on here , you quote the fact that during a time of PLENTIFUL employment he couldnt get english drivers who were as reliable as foreign drivers , despite the fact they were being paid the same rate , has it ever crossed your mind that the rate might have been shit , and the foreign drivers , with their advantage of living more cheaply , were more able or willing to accept it.

 

[cunning fergus]

It's a natural thing to blame outsiders when you have problems yourself. It's childlike, it's bullying, it's false but for some people it is a natural default behaviour.

You need to have a word with Inspector Nick Bowman of Sussex Police.

Foreign criminals told to head for Sussex From The Argus)

Go and tell Nick and the victims of nearly 20% of crimes in that area that they are being childish.

Three sought after Bognor rape From The Argus)

It would appear that not all are arriving to work.................

Surge in Eastern European Criminals in Britains Prisons

 

[Nibble]

You need to have a word with Inspector Nick Bowman of Sussex Police.

Foreign criminals told to head for Sussex From The Argus)

Go and tell Nick and the victims of nearly 20% of crimes in that area that they are being childish.


Three sought after Bognor rape From The Argus)

It would appear that not all are arriving to work.................

Surge in Eastern European Criminals in Britains Prisons

I would happily quote some figures of how many British people commit crime in Britain. It would be as pointless as your paper thin argument.

So you have quoted some crime stats? Well lets purge the country of foreigners and rejoice the end of crime forever in this green and pleasent land.

 

[Aadam]

no i'm getting my information from knowing what our population has been since i was a kid, and great generalisation on the fact that english people are LAZY , change that to blacks and lets hear the squeals of outrage on here , you quote the fact that during a time of PLENTIFUL employment he couldnt get english drivers who were as reliable as foreign drivers , despite the fact they were being paid the same rate , has it ever crossed your mind that the rate might have been shit , and the foreign drivers , with their advantage of living more cheaply , were more able or willing to accept it.

Okay maybe it was a generalisation, I accept that and retract that. However, the going rate was over double the minimum wage, so I don't think there was anything wrong with the pay. They were, by trade, HGV drivers -- their job was to do this. The going rate was well above minimum wage (and we're talking a few years ago now) as was the same at most agencies. It was either be paid that or don't work at all. I wouldn't train as a secretary, where the going rate was £8ph (for example), and then refuse to work because the going rate was too low and I wanted £12ph.

 

[User removed 4]

I would happily quote some figures of how many British people commit crime in Britain. It would be as pointless as your paper thin argument.

So you have quoted some crime stats? Well lets purge the country of foreigners and rejoice the end of crime forever in this green and pleasent land.

So,let's get this straight, what you're saying is, , there are plenty of british criminals, so it doesnt matter if we let a few foreign ones in as well ?

 

[beorhthelm]

...its simple fact, if you live in a 2 bed flat you wouldnt ask 5 of your mates to move in

and why not? why is it apparently beneth some to flat/house share where work is? others will do this, and they'll get the jobs ahead of the immigrants.

 

[Nibble]

So,let's get this straight, what you're saying is, , there are plenty of british criminals, so it doesnt matter if we let a few foreign ones in as well ?

No, what I'm saying is scaremongering and scapegoating are the tools of weak minded folk. Fundamentally we will always disagree because I believe that immigrants are now part of our popultion and don't seperate crimes into where the person originated from and you see it as a defining factor. Prison has criminals in it. The country of origin is irrelevant.

 

[cunning fergus]

No, what I'm saying is scaremongering and scapegoating are the tools of weak minded folk. Fundamentally we will always disagree because I believe that immigrants are now part of our popultion and don't seperate crimes into where the person originated from and you see it as a defining factor. Prison has criminals in it. The country of origin is irrelevant.

You are f***ing priceless.........."the country of origin is irrelevant" for criminals.

Even Amnesty Internation support deportations for criminals/undesirables from this country............you must be the only person in the UK that think's Shami Chakribati is a swivel eyed right winger.

You are onto a loser on this one sonny..............best you nip upstairs to the box room for a bit of self abuse with xhamster................let the adults finish this discussion.

 

[User removed 4]

and why not? why is it apparently beneth some to flat/house share where work is? others will do this, and they'll get the jobs ahead of the immigrants.

Er, I think you've read it too literally, it was an analogy about overcrowding, why invite 5 extra people into a two bed flat , thus cutting down on available space, to illustrate the folly of inviting in immigrants when we have an overcrowded job market, i.e 3.2 million (official) immigrants , in a job nmarket where 2.4 million are chasing 400,00 jobs , ok ?

 

[Nibble]

You are f***ing priceless.........."the country of origin is irrelevant" for criminals.

Even Amnesty Internation support deportations for criminals/undesirables from this country............you must be the only person in the UK that think's Shami Chakribati is a swivel eyed right winger.

You are onto a loser on this one sonny..............best you nip upstairs to the box room for a bit of self abuse with xhamster................let the adults finish this discussion.

How do I explain the concept simply for you? You can't even grasp the basis of my argument and your reaction? Some twaddle about a box room and hamsters. I'm not saying foreign criminals shouldn't be deported and hopefuly weeded out before they enter.I'm saying just because some immigrants commit crimes I don't see that as a reason to ban all immigrants from entering the country. Can you get your swede around that concept? Yes, it differs from your argument (in that it is correct) but a simple idea nonetheless. It's about seeing the world as containing humans not nationalities and races.

 

[Nibble]

You need to have a word with Inspector Nick Bowman of Sussex Police.

Foreign criminals told to head for Sussex From The Argus)

Go and tell Nick and the victims of nearly 20% of crimes in that area that they are being childish.



Three sought after Bognor rape From The Argus)

It would appear that not all are arriving to work.................

Surge in Eastern European Criminals in Britains Prisons

I just saw some of your views on the Royals and the EU, coupled with your "Foreigners Out" policy I get a pretty clear idea of where you're coming from. You're not a cabbie are you?

 

[sydney]

It's a natural thing to blame outsiders when you have problems yourself. It's childlike, it's bullying, it's false but for some people it is a natural default behaviour.

haha .......moron...

 

[Nibble]

haha .......moron...

Sorry old bean, you're gonna have to expand if you wish to take part in the discussion.

 

[sydney]

How do I explain the concept simply for you? You can't even grasp the basis of my argument and your reaction? Some twaddle about a box room and hamsters. I'm not saying foreign criminals shouldn't be deported and hopefuly weeded out before they enter.I'm saying just because some immigrants commit crimes I don't see that as a reason to ban all immigrants from entering the country. Can you get your swede around that concept? Yes, it differs from your argument (in that it is correct) but a simple idea nonetheless. It's about seeing the world as containing humans not nationalities and races.

so here you are championing migration and free employment for all newcomers and also championing that jobseekers should not be asked to do community work for their dole allowance because there SIMPLY are no f***ing jobs .....well i'd really like to understand your attitude but i'm afraid YOU may possibly be a moron..........where oh where and how are we supposed to get our genuine jobseekers back to work when a very large proportion of their jobs have been taken by immigrants. be more careful who you call a moron an' all............idiot...!!! not gonna waste any more time on this subject.........the country is a f***ing basket case at the moment and with some of the attitudes displayed on this thread it is hardly surprising.