UKIP Foster Parents

[Dandyman]

Now you know, having read the policy, that this isn't true ! UKIP are proposing a ban on all immigration for 5 years for ANYONE and after that to only allow 50,000 in per year. Rather selective on your behalf and some downright leftie bollocks.

Read the rest of the site - he is is proposing a points system which will make it impossible for key workers to enter unless they are very wealthy (hence my comment) or well very well qualified. Quite why any highly qualified migrant would would to come to an UKIP run county bristling with hostility to those frightful foreigners is of course never explained.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So in fact you can't fault any of my substantive points.

General substance possibly not but the statement that the policies are racist a big NO, and the implication that the UKIP policies are somehow unique and only associated to the racist far right is absolute bollocks. They are neither far right nor racist and most of their policies aren't too dissimilar from Labour or the Tories, the only difference being that we would not be hampered by the corrupt EU.

 

[Dandyman]

General substance possibly not but the statement that the policies are racist a big NO, and the implication that the UKIP policies are somehow unique and only associated to the racist far right is absolute bollocks. They are neither far right nor racist and most of their policies aren't too dissimilar from Labour or the Tories, the only difference being that we would not be hampered by the corrupt EU.

Thank you for the admission.

UKIP are a gang of Monday Club extremists. Fortunately for our country they present a greater threat to the Tory Party and it's internal divisions than they do to anyone else.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Read the rest of the site - he is is proposing a points system which will make it impossible for key workers to enter unless they are very wealthy (hence my comment) or well very well qualified. Quite why any highly qualified migrant would would to come to an UKIP run county bristling with hostility to those frightful foreigners is of course never explained.

Wow - a points system so similar to the US, Australia and Canada that it could have been written by them. Strangely their immigration systems work very well. Once again an imagined hostility to foreigners - it's really rather simple, if you have a skill we want and aren't going to sponge then your welcome, otherwise tough luck ( asylum seekers excepted ). It's only the wooley left that get all heated about not allowing any Jean, Xi, or Patel in.

 

[pastafarian]

how on earth did a council come to the conclusion it is ok to snoop into someones voting preferences

 

[cunning fergus]

Firstly socialism is built on the unity of the working class not on setting on false divisions. Secondly the discrimination is between those migrants who have made a massive contribution to the NHS, public transport and when they existed the manufacturing and textile industries whom UKIP want to ban and the motley collection of high net worth Russian gangsters and Arab arms dealers whom, they are happy to let in rather than the British working class.

UKIPs attitude to British workers is here: Small Business: UKIP Policy - UK Independence Party and in their own words "UKIP would put an end to most legislation regarding matters such as weekly working hours, holidays and holiday, overtime, redundancy or sick pay etc" - Welcome to Mitt Romney with a British accent.

So in your own assessment of socialism I cannot have bilateral unity with the UK working class unless it extends the worldwide proletariat?

That sounds much more like Marxism.........albeit even the uk communist party recognise that the EU is a platform for capitalist monopoly capital and will oppress the working classes. Ergo they don't support the EU either........just like UKIP.......withdrawal is not just the preserve of the right.

In any event I doubt the British working class who have either seen their wage levels drop or lose out on work as a consequence of over supply in the labour markets because of the creation of pan European labour markets would agree with you.

Fact is that Labour and the unions were long time opponents to the EU/EEC for exactly this reason, but then we know they are not socialists these days..........they are the bougoise in a red cloak.

 

[Seasidesage]

BUT you named UKIP and BNP in the same sentence thus implying they were the same.

Bit paranoid mate I think, go and have a lie down

 

[Dandyman]

So in your own assessment of socialism I cannot have bilateral unity with the UK working class unless it extends the worldwide proletariat?

That sounds much more like Marxism.........albeit even the uk communist party recognise that the EU is a platform for capitalist monopoly capital and will oppress the working classes. Ergo they don't support the EU either........just like UKIP.......withdrawal is not just the preserve of the right.

In any event I doubt the British working class who have either seen their wage levels drop or lose out on work as a consequence of over supply in the labour markets because of the creation of pan European labour markets would agree with you.

Fact is that Labour and the unions were long time opponents to the EU/EEC for exactly this reason, but then we know they are not socialists these days..........they are the bougoise in a red cloak.

Criticism of the EU is fine by me. Believing a slogan like "British jobs for British workers" benefits anyone other than the owners of capital and extremist parties is at best naive.

 

[El Presidente]

Now you know, having read the policy, that this isn't true ! UKIP are proposing a ban on all immigration for 5 years for ANYONE and after that to only allow 50,000 in per year.

How will that benefit the economy?

Why five years and not seven? Why 50,000 and not 10,000? It's an over simplistic, populist nonsense to a complex problem. UKIP voice some relevant questions to the issue of immigration and employment, but their answers are half baked, and have no economic or financial substance behind them. The main parties are responsible for creating the popularity of UKIP through their self interest and smug self satisfaction, but they are the lesser of two evils. When it comes to our elected officials being smug but intelligent, or self righteous and a bit thick, then I would take the former.

 

[melias shoes]

how on earth did a council come to the conclusion it is ok to snoop into someones voting preferences

Absolutely this . All very sinister. The main concern for me is people who suggest that if you vote ukip then you are bigoted. However no one has suggested that the very people who took these children away because of differing of views are the actual bigots.All very nasty,leaves a bad taste in the mouth. These are the people who call the tories nasty.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Wow - a points system so similar to the US, Australia and Canada that it could have been written by them. Strangely their immigration systems work very well.

I thought the US has a huge employment black market? Which would indicate their system does not work very well.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I thought the US has a huge employment black market? Which would indicate their system does not work very well.

Just looked this up: US has 11 million illegals compared to just 500k in the UK. Given the US and UK populations the US has a far greater issue it seems.

 

[stripeyshark]

UKIP are quite extreme in some of heir thinking and some of their rhetoric on immigration has indeed been bordering on racist. If this fostering issue was about BNP supporters I expect most people would side with the council.

But it's not about BNP supporters, is it? It's about UKIP supporters. I wouldn't side with the council if they were BNP either.

 

[cunning fergus]

Criticism of the EU is fine by me. Believing a slogan like "British jobs for British workers" benefits anyone other than the owners of capital and extremist parties is at best naive.

OK so "critisism" is fine by you, however any party that advocates a policy of withdrawal is nevertheless extremist?

I never did believe Brown and his slogan because like most of the sane working class we understood what an utter lie it was, Brown said it anyway to position himself as a supporter of the British working class. He said it at the 2007 labour conference, a point in time when the BNP were making some headway in the local elections.........it was empty political tub thumping that's all.

We got to find out what he actually felt about the British working class when he met long time labour supporter Gillian Duffy, and then, behind her back, called her a bigot for having the temerity to highlight, amongst other things, the influx of immigrants into her local community. No doubt you supported Brown's assessment of Mrs Duffy at that time.

I am less sure what you want for British workers if you dont think they should work for the owners of capital. I presume you would be a supporter of full nationalisation of British Industry? A policy advocated by the BNP no less.........f***ing right wing nut jobs that they are.......no I mean left........no right.

 

[cunning fergus]

How will that benefit the economy?

Why five years and not seven? Why 50,000 and not 10,000? It's an over simplistic, populist nonsense to a complex problem. UKIP voice some relevant questions to the issue of immigration and employment, but their answers are half baked, and have no economic or financial substance behind them. The main parties are responsible for creating the popularity of UKIP through their self interest and smug self satisfaction, but they are the lesser of two evils. When it comes to our elected officials being smug but intelligent, or self righteous and a bit thick, then I would take the former.

Who are the intelligent ones we should trust?

 

[Brovion]

Dandyman is completely correct with his analysis of UKIP, and I see this thread has now managed to take in the BNP and the nature of Socialism. Which has all got bugger all to do with fostering children.

However having simplistic, reactionary and pig-ignorant political views should not automatically bar you from being a foster parent - otherwise that would also disqualify members of the Green Party . If Rotherham Council had concrete evidence that the children were being maltreated, or even just that they were being read sections of Mein Kampf each night and weren't given curry because it's Paki food then I would be applauding the decision wholeheartedly. At the moment though it looks like a petty and stupid decision taken by petty and stupid people for petty and stupid reasons.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Just looked this up: US has 11 million illegals compared to just 500k in the UK. Given the US and UK populations the US has a far greater issue it seems.

Yes but you could fit the UK in to America god knows how many times that's the difference.
The problem with this UK is that we are a small island and a population increase of 3 to 4 million would be far more noticeable on our services, than say in the US.

My theory is that who are destined for London are being pushed away to other areas of the country now, simply because there are not enough houses, and rents are far too high in and around London area.

 

[cunning fergus]

Dandyman is completely correct with his analysis of UKIP, and I see this thread has now managed to take in the BNP and the nature of Socialism. Which has all got bugger all to do with fostering children.

However having simplistic, reactionary and pig-ignorant political views should not automatically bar you from being a foster parent - otherwise that would also disqualify members of the Green Party . If Rotherham Council had concrete evidence that the children were being maltreated, or even just that they were being read sections of Mein Kampf each night and weren't given curry because it's Paki food then I would be applauding the decision wholeheartedly. At the moment though it looks like a petty and stupid decision taken by petty and stupid people for petty and stupid reasons.

What bits of his analysis are correct? The reason the nature of socialism has come up on this thread is that Dandyman stated that UKIP would discriminate against working class immigrants.

I am working class, where is the downside for me and the other British working class with regard to such a policy?

Placing restrictions on the over supply in the labour markets should lead to more work and stability in wages........this was a long standing reason why old socialist labour and the unions were anti EU/EEC? They were right..........if they weren't Miliband would not have recently spoken about placing restrictions on labour markets to foreigners.

So.......Dandyman is wrong and so are you if you think this is an extremist policy.

Born again communist..........I don't think so........f***ing Thatcherite capitalist more like.

 

[Brovion]

What bits of his analysis are correct? The reason the nature of socialism has come up on this thread is that Dandyman stated that UKIP would discriminate against working class immigrants.

I am working class, where is the downside for me and the other British working class with regard to such a policy?

Placing restrictions on the over supply in the labour markets should lead to more work and stability in wages........this was a long standing reason why old socialist labour and the unions were anti EU/EEC? They were right..........if they weren't Miliband would not have recently spoken about placing restrictions on labour markets to foreigners.

So.......Dandyman is wrong and so are you if you think this is an extremist policy.

Born again communist..........I don't think so........f***ing Thatcherite capitalist more like.

Posts #51 and #74 where he analyses UKIP's immigration and small business policies. And if you think me agreeing with him on those issues makes me a 'f***ing Thatcherite capitalist', well, I'll be polite and say your knowledge of politics is a trifle limited.

 

[abc]

But it's not about BNP supporters, is it? It's about UKIP supporters. I wouldn't side with the council if they were BNP either.

My point exactly. Are UKIP and the BNP really very different? Take the UKIP slogan 'British Jobs for British Workers', if you didn't know it's origin would you be at all surprised to find it was a BNP slogan? No,it fits either parties' beliefs. Both parties profess similar (in public) policies on immigration. We rightly condemn the BNP because of the conduct of a small number of easily identifiable thugs that follow them. They also garner most of their support from low income white communities. But it would be insulting to suggest that there any more racists amongst the 'working class' than those in higher income groups. The point already made that UKIP are the BNP for the middles classes is not a fatuous one. Racism is no less insidious because the views are held by respectable middle class citizens. The National Socialists in Germany achieved power by harnessing the support of the middle and paper classes by creating an illusion of respectability and acceptability. We know what happened then.