[Politics] Tory voters- where do you go from here?

[Bodian]

Me or right brain ronnie??!

 

[Zeberdi]

Wasn’t sure what thread to post this on but this seemed as good as any - when stuff like this gets splashed on BBC headlines, it honestly makes me feel embarrassed to be British …guess there’s always a small proportion of the electorate who never seem to understand grown up politics at both ends of the spectrum. The sooner the Tories regroup and form a proper opposition party the sooner extremist reactionaries will be marginalised.

Two men arrested for alleged attack on anti-racism activist at Tommy Robinson rally

A counter-demonstration was organised by former Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn's Peace & Justice project and the group Stand Up To Racism to oppose the Tommy Robinson-led "patriotic rally".

news.sky.com

 

[BBassic]

Wasn’t sure what thread to post this on but this seemed as good as any - when stuff like this gets splashed on BBC headlines, it honestly makes me feel embarrassed to be British …guess there’s always a small proportion of the electorate who never seem to understand grown up politics at both ends of the spectrum. The sooner the Tories regroup and form a proper opposition party the sooner extremist reactionaries will be marginalised.

Two men arrested for alleged attack on anti-racism activist at Tommy Robinson rally

A counter-demonstration was organised by former Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn's Peace & Justice project and the group Stand Up To Racism to oppose the Tommy Robinson-led "patriotic rally".

news.sky.com

Someone should tell Mr. Robinson that he's spelt 'nationalism' wrong

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

'Too left'? Really?

Yes, the party has changed so much Johnson was too left for me, probably how he got the red wall on board.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Do you mean not licensed for animals?

No. Certain products such as antihistamines are suitable for both human and animals. It used to be possible for a vet to prescribe the human version which is chemically identical but vastly cheaper. Now it isn't. The law has changed in the EU and in the UK to mean that not only can a vet not prescribe the human version where a licensed aminal version exists, but it is also illegal for the vet to inform the customer that a cheaper version could be bought over the counter.

It’s not illegal for a vet to prescribe human medicines for animals. My two cats got an eye infection in 2013, which needed human eye drops. The vet wrote out a prescription which meant that I had to sign a form to agree. It was as simple as that, and within a week both cats were healed.
Actually giving the cats the eye drops was far more difficult, involving pillowcases and lots of plasters on my hands.

And I am confident that the vet will not be prosecuted for following the law in 2013. Unfortunately the law has changed.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

No. Certain products such as antihistamines are suitable for both human and animals. It used to be possible for a vet to prescribe the human version which is chemically identical but vastly cheaper. Now it isn't. The law has changed in the EU and in the UK to mean that not only can a vet not prescribe the human version where a licensed aminal version exists, but it is also illegal for the vet to inform the customer that a cheaper version could be bought over the counter.

And I am confident that the vet will not be prosecuted for following the law in 2013. Unfortunately the law has changed.

I had to sign a form to ensure he followed the law because he explained it to me.

 

[Javeaseagull]

No. Certain products such as antihistamines are suitable for both human and animals. It used to be possible for a vet to prescribe the human version which is chemically identical but vastly cheaper. Now it isn't. The law has changed in the EU and in the UK to mean that not only can a vet not prescribe the human version where a licensed aminal version exists, but it is also illegal for the vet to inform the customer that a cheaper version could be bought over the counter.

And I am confident that the vet will not be prosecuted for following the law in 2013. Unfortunately the law has changed.

Big Pharma strikes again.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I had to sign a form to ensure he followed the law because he explained it to me.

I'm pretty sure he would have explained what the law was in 2013, not what the law was in 2024.

This is the latest version of the law, which has been mentioned several times by vets in letters to the Daily Telegraph.

The cascade: prescribing unauthorised medicines

Guidance for prescribing vets on the use of the cascade.

www.gov.uk

It's clear that you must ont use a human medicine if an animal equivalent has been licensed (even if the two are clinically identical) and that you cannot promote any alternative to this cascade.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Was that funny look tinged with the rudeness that she's so widely associated with?

No, probably more ‘bemusement’ I think.

It was about 6.45am. I’d just started out on an early morning 5km and she was on her driveway. I would like say she was engaged in something deliciously mundane, like putting the wheelie bin out, but that’s Tuesdays round here and it was a Wednesday.

Maybe she’s stalking me?

 

[Zeberdi]

Well, for a while now @Is it PotG? has been focusing on the planning changes, and Labour do have sizeable plans on this front, and it's going to wind up the NIMBYs no end, so I can see this being what they'll focus on. With a bit of luck though, those predominantly affected will be in complacent constituencies insisting that their rural idyll is being destroyed but few if any of these will be Labour constituencies. We need what Starmer is calling 'the vital green infrastructure', renewables and turbo-boost to housing that has been neglected for 14 years (and, in the latter case, much, much longer) if we're going to transition to net zero which is a legal requirement.
My wager is that it's this that they'll focus on over the course of the parliament while also mobilising those that are poor but don't like the thought of the rich having their pips squeaked. The larger uncertainty is how long the electorate recognises that such a policy agenda is what's required and is the route to a sustainable future.

I agree mostly with what you are saying but it’s not just NIMBYism that motivates protests against certain wind farm developments - All major conservation organisations recognise the need to move away from fossil fuels to sustainable energy supplies.

However, it has always be the bone of contention for conservation organisations not that wind farms need to be installed but they should be installed in areas where they have the least environmental impact. Research is still being carried out on offshore wind farms but many onshore wind farm applications were turned down because of their potentially unacceptable impact on the wildlife in environmentally sensitive areas not that they were a visual blot on the landscape for the rural ‘rich folk’. The latter is NIMBYism, the former a necessary precaution.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

'Pompously' is needlessly rude.

Do you genuinely think that Reform will lose all the votes it has pinched off the Tories, and that Farage and chums will lose their seats?

I'll bet you £50 now (Money to REMF) that if Farage decides to contest the next GE (he may not, in which case it is irrelevant) his party will take enough votes off the Tories to scupper their GE chances.

To put that into something measurable and incontestable, I mean Reform will win at least 1 seat in the next GE. This is down from what they have now, but not the total disappearance leading to a Tory government as you appear to think. If Reform win no seats then you win (even if they do succeed in preventing the Tories winning a majority).

You on?

...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Big Pharma strikes again.

Of course Pharma will try to make a few quid. But in this case it is more likely careless government.

Humans are prescribed (by law) the cheapest generics. My statin prescription is filled with a different generic every time. This is like Tesco own bran ibuprofen (one tenth the cost of chemically identical neurophen) rather than own brand tomato catsup (which is not the same ah Heinz and tastes different).

Why vetmed can't use generic drugs is beyond me.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Of course Pharma will try to make a few quid. But in this case it is more likely careless government.

Humans are prescribed (by law) the cheapest generics. My statin prescription is filled with a different generic every time. This is like Tesco own bran ibuprofen (one tenth the cost of chemically identical neurophen) rather than own brand tomato catsup (which is not the same ah Heinz and tastes different).

Why vetmed can't use generic drugs is beyond me.

Ask yourself why Drugs cost more in the USA than either Canada or Mexico and why can't they legally be imported into the USA.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Big Pharma strikes again.

It’s the MHRA which licenses drugs in the U.K.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Ask yourself why Drugs cost more in the USA than either Canada or Mexico and why can't they legally be imported into the USA.

I believe part of the reason the US has such a high price for patented drugs is they don’t have a single-buyer process like Canada. A single Canadian body negotiates the price and has buying power, whereas in the US it’s loads of individual insurance companies.

As for exporting into the US….why do this as it will undercut their higher price? Note I’m talking about patented drugs.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Ask yourself why Drugs cost more in the USA than either Canada or Mexico and why can't they legally be imported into the USA.

Corrupt politicians in thrall to Pharma? Or just part of the lazy protectionist capitalism that Americans think is patriotic?

Consider the 'opiate crisis' in the US. Oxycontin (Oxycodone). How any properly trained medic could possibly think that prescribing an opiate in the whilly-nilly manner it was prescribed is beyond me. Except it isn't. Pharmacology training for US medics is assessed by MCQ (I sat the US pharmacology exam in 1983) and you cannot assess nuance and judgment by MCQ.

That said pharmacology training for medics isn't all that in the UK either. I was asked to do some first year pharmacology teaching some years ago, but found that so much was crammed into so little time it was so dumbed down as to be misleading, so I refuse to do it now.

 

[Machiavelli]

Kemi Badenoch (42) or Robert Jenrick (41) is apparently the answer, rather than James Cleverly (37).

Wow. They've bounced all over the place here. Didn't Cleverly get 39 in the previous round. Maybe his team has played games and it's backfired.

 

[Simster]

Wow. They've bounced all over the place here. Didn't Cleverly get 39 in the previous round. Maybe his team has played games and it's backfired.

Cleverly was a tedious, mediocre overly earnest grifter but the two remaining candidates are both right-wing loonies. One of them wants to leave the ECHR ffs. I'm not sure whether this is good or bad news for us sane people because I don't trust the electorate to look at these cretins and see them for what they are just because Labour haven't given us 5 years of perfection.

 

[Professor Plum]

The election of the new leader looks to me like the start of that string of leaders they had post-Major -- William Hague, IDS, Michael Howerd. None of them seemed PM material, Then Cameron came along and their fortunes improved. The current candidates have that same not-PM-types feel about them. If so, it's good news for Labour, in spite of their current travails.

The biggest current challenge for the Tories is what to do about Reform. Incidentally, this is also a challenge for Labour. Remember in 2015, UKIP had a major impact across many Labour constituencies, especially in the north. Reform is similar to UKIP in their disruptiveness. But in the short term at least, the Tories are more susceptible as we saw in this year's election. How they deal with that, who knows? I can't see an amalgamation and I can't see any electoral deal as happened in 2019.

It's possible I suppose that Reform will get even more powerful and become the default party of the right. In other words, this may actually be the beginning of the end of the Tories. I hope this doesn't happen, but if the Tories remain unpopular and if Labour continue their mis-steps, I guess that leaves a channel down the middle for the emergence of not just Reform but also the LibDems.

Politics is fascinating. If we have this discussion in 12 months time (as we surely will) I suspect the landscape will have changed again. "Events. dear boy, events" makes any prediction almost impossible.

 

[Professor Plum]

Wow. They've bounced all over the place here. Didn't Cleverly get 39 in the previous round. Maybe his team has played games and it's backfired.

Wow indeed. I didn't see that coming. Yesterday the talk was all about Cleverly being the darling of the MPs. Clearly not the case.

So Badenoch and Jenrick will be put to party members to vote on. Not being a Tory member or knowing any (that I'm aware of), I have no inkling how this will go but I've seen articles in the Telegraph claiming that Badenoch is popular among the rank and file.