[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Thunder Bolt]

The actual quote is "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." I prefer the actual quote.

I was listening to a tory activist discussing the leadership election this morning. She was wistful about the candidates, and added 'I would have liked to have seen Boris as one of the candidates'.

The greatest trick Johnson ever pulled was convincing people he is a great leader.

The two thousand Tory voters has now turned into six thousand demanding that Johnson be put on the ballot.

Hopefully, his conduct will be examined by the Privileges Committee under oath (not that he cares) and excluded from the 1922 ballot.

 

[nicko31]

A genuine shit show.

Sussex boy Simon Calder tells it like it is...

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1550384810375495680?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

 

[Bodian]

Stability would be nice....

But, but - I thought we [the country] voted for 'Strong and Stable' a while back?

 

[nicko31]

Just keeps getting better and better...

Seems it not just non-doms could vote in the Tory leadership contest. You can if...

a) If you don't live here

and

b) You don't even need to be a UK citizen

Basically anyone in the world that tosses the Tories some dough!!!!

https://www.indy100.com/news/tory-leadership-contest-voting-loophole

 

[vegster]

Sussex boy Simon Calder tells it like it is...

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1550384810375495680?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

I can vouch for this. Some of my workmates had a short midweek trip to Milan recently, long story short, their flight back got cancelled, they moved them to another hotel and said they would be on a flight two days later. Two days later, that flight got cancelled... they were advised the best option was a train in to Switzerland and a flight home from Geneva. So off they went... they got to the airport and there was a huge scene as their passports had NOT been stamped after the train journey in to Switzerland... lots of panic and arguments and recriminations amongst the Swiss officials, after a delay they let them board. They reckon someone at the railway station got a right bollocking.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Sussex boy Simon Calder tells it like it is...

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1550384810375495680?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Not only stamped, but checked electronically before stamping as well.

When there used to be passport Control at Calais before, the would usually just glance at the picture and wave you through, so of course it is going to take longer.

In June we went over to France Brittany ferries Portsmouth to Caen. In both directions it was all a lot more time consuming than last time we did it before controls were brought back. We said at the time imagine what this will be like when it's busy - both our sailings were probably less than half full.

This doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Brits arranged and French agreed for 14 French border police from 4:30. 6 turned up. French say it is because of an unforeseeable incident at the Channel Tunnel, Eurotunnel say that the minor incident had no impact on the French border police.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It is absolutely classic 'Leopards eating people's face behaviour'

OBVIOUSLY when I voted to stop free movement, I didn't mean my free movement

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I know. That's why I said I was paraphrasing it.

And I posted the acual quote because, as I said, I prefer it.

I take it that we can agree on one thing - we don't like the current tories

(I still think my analogy is good, with each tennis player representing a party. The reason why tories and labour have the most seats is because they....win....the most seats. I am still not persuaded that people who want to change the system are not motivated by primarily by wanting to get the tories out . . . and perhaps without having to suffer labour getting in.....)

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

But, but - I thought we [the country] voted for 'Strong and Stable' a while back?

The majority in a majority of seats did. I didn't. Unlike some, I'm not feeling cheated and bitter that I lost because.....I lost. Labour lost the argument. And so it goes. Under PR I would still have lost, but we would have had the delightful mess of a hung parliament and a strong and stable tory/liberal coalition. That went well he time before. Oh, but that wasn't a PR coalition, it was a FPTP coalition....the wrong kind of coalition

 

[Guinness Boy]

The majority in a majority of seats did. I didn't. Unlike some, I'm not feeling cheated and bitter that I lost because.....I lost. Labour lost the argument. And so it goes. Under PR I would still have lost, but we would have had the delightful mess of a hung parliament and a strong and stable tory/liberal coalition. That went well he time before. Oh, but that wasn't a PR coalition, it was a FPTP coalition....the wrong kind of coalition

While I've posted and voted before in favour of FPTP, it's mostly because I want a local, accountable MP who will act for ME. A Caroline Lucas or Peter Kyle let's say.

If there are enough MPs out there who are flip flopping like a Kleenex in a gale (hello ex Lib Dem Remainer Liz) or ignoring their constituents in favour of their own careers then it probably is time to look at the vote as a whole across the UK and proportion it out. It would be less accountable - but more democratic. And this current bunch of back to fronts are simply not accountable at all anyway.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

While I've posted and voted before in favour of FPTP, it's mostly because I want a local, accountable MP who will act for ME. A Caroline Lucas or Peter Kyle let's say.

If there are enough MPs out there who are flip flopping like a Kleenex in a gale (hello ex Lib Dem Remainer Liz) or ignoring their constituents in favour of their own careers then it probably is time to look at the vote as a whole across the UK and proportion it out. It would be less accountable - but more democratic. And this current bunch of back to fronts are simply not accountable at all anyway.

Fair enough. Albeit I am always a bit concerned that when people don't get what they want they try to change the system. I had an Egyptian working in my lab when the elected government there (their first?) became unpopular so the people decided to overthrow it. I told he she should suck it up and just vote the buggers out at the next opportunity. Didn't listen. A military coup followed.

Personally I am prepared to suck it up and if the people decide they want some more fake promises and misrule, on their heads be it. Meanwhile the opposition must learn to communicate a coherent alternative.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Fair enough. Albeit I am always a bit concerned that when people don't get what they want they try to change the system. I had an Egyptian working in my lab when the elected government there (their first?) became unpopular so the people decided to overthrow it. I told he she should suck it up and just vote the buggers out at the next opportunity. Didn't listen. A military coup followed.

Personally I am prepared to suck it up and if the people decide they want some more fake promises and misrule, on their heads be it. Meanwhile the opposition must learn to communicate a coherent alternative.

But there it is Harry, there's only a Government and an opposition in your world. I tend to think that running a successful nation in the complex world of the 21st century may be a little more nuanced than that, but when have Mile Oak and Easthill ever agreed on anything ?

Other than the fact that very nearly 50% of the electorate are more stupid than the average person

 

[Guinness Boy]

Fair enough. Albeit I am always a bit concerned that when people don't get what they want they try to change the system. I had an Egyptian working in my lab when the elected government there (their first?) became unpopular so the people decided to overthrow it. I told he she should suck it up and just vote the buggers out at the next opportunity. Didn't listen. A military coup followed.

Personally I am prepared to suck it up and if the people decide they want some more fake promises and misrule, on their heads be it. Meanwhile the opposition must learn to communicate a coherent alternative.

Your last sentence - my bolding - spot on. Some of this shitshow is firmly down to the Labour Party eating itself in the name of "democracy" and ending up as less effective than Norwich City after a promotion party. All the time Momentum were arguing for something no one else wanted, all the time the wrong Milliband was in charge, all the time the leader was an ideology fuelled hobbit with the charisma of a goat and a brother who loves conspiracy and thinks covid doesn't exist, the country was Donald Ducked either way.

The first part is interesting. We seem to have ended up with Brexit thanks to changing our system to regarding referenda ahead of parliamentary democracy like some kind of mad Swiss people on speed, so there I'd agree. However, if you have a system that is going to return the same result time and time and time again then it is not a democratic system and you might as well have a dictator. And, all the time the sitting government is in charge of devolution, independence and boundary changes they are also in charge of FTPT.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

But there it is Harry, there's only a Government and an opposition in your world. I tend to think that running a successful nation in the complex world of the 21st century may be a little more nuanced than that, but when have Mile Oak and Easthill ever agreed on anything ?

Other than the fact that very nearly 50% of the electorate are more stupid than the average person

Well, it may be possible to run the nation via a committee of all the talents, but that would be sterile. Progress comes from disruptive conflict.

I'll see you outside the youth club, later

 

[WATFORD zero]

Your last sentence - my bolding - spot on. Some of this shitshow is firmly down to the Labour Party eating itself in the name of "democracy" and ending up as less effective than Norwich City after a promotion party. All the time Momentum were arguing for something no one else wanted, all the time the wrong Milliband was in charge, all the time the leader was an ideology fuelled hobbit with the charisma of a goat and a brother who loves conspiracy and thinks covid doesn't exist, the country was Donald Ducked either way.

The first part is interesting. We seem to have ended up with Brexit thanks to changing our system to regarding referenda ahead of parliamentary democracy like some kind of mad Swiss people on speed, so there I'd agree. However, if you have a system that is going to return the same result time and time and time again then it is not a democratic system and you might as well have a dictator. And, all the time the sitting government is in charge of devolution, independence and boundary changes they are also in charge of FTPT.

You've got there EVENTUALLY !

Benign Dictatorship, you know it makes sense

 

[A1X]

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Your last sentence - my bolding - spot on. Some of this shitshow is firmly down to the Labour Party eating itself in the name of "democracy" and ending up as less effective than Norwich City after a promotion party. All the time Momentum were arguing for something no one else wanted, all the time the wrong Milliband was in charge, all the time the leader was an ideology fuelled hobbit with the charisma of a goat and a brother who loves conspiracy and thinks covid doesn't exist, the country was Donald Ducked either way.

The first part is interesting. We seem to have ended up with Brexit thanks to changing our system to regarding referenda ahead of parliamentary democracy like some kind of mad Swiss people on speed, so there I'd agree. However, if you have a system that is going to return the same result time and time and time again then it is not a democratic system and you might as well have a dictator. And, all the time the sitting government is in charge of devolution, independence and boundary changes they are also in charge of FTPT.

Yes (second part) I agree that the system has been rigged by circumstances and design in favour of a tory hegemony but, at the end of the day, if they keep shitting everything up they will eventually find themselves up against a more appealing opposition, and find themselves voted out.

The only choice we have is to vote, to argue the case with people we know (and don't know) and keep on buggering on. I won't be reaching for a fire arm anytime soon

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes, but you're meant to ending their Free Movement, not ours.

They have replaced quid pro quo with . . . . quid.

Mind you, it wouldn't have surprised me if it had been quo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQr9Xuq1rLc

 

[TomandJerry]

Some juicy blue on blue

Sources supporting Sunak said that while party members would be able to vote from 1 August, they would be urged not to write him off until later in the contest.

“We all think she [Truss] is going to be so bad at the hustings that members will change their minds,” one said. Another predicted: “He will shine at the hustings, whereas Truss is mental and will be found out.”

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