Too Socialist or too Centre Left?

[Hampster Gull]

Policy? I don't think it matters anymore. Most complaints I have heard are these: Ed looks like Wallace. Not statesmanlike . Bacon Sandwich. Beware the Scots.

Labour could have Stalinist policies. if they could just get George Clooney to head up the party they'd get a landslide victory.

I disagree. If labour putting forward stalinist policies they would never win an election againnomatter who was presenting.

 

[Hampster Gull]

You're kidding, right? Mansion tax, scrap non-doms, reduce Uni fees, raise high rate of tax, scrap zero hours contracts were all straight out of Michael Foot's handbook.

For me this was it. I dont think you canwin in the UK, well at least England,with those policies. They need to lean in tothe centre and perch themsleves just to the left. They will do much more for the country in thst position

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I disagree. If labour putting forward stalinist policies they would never win an election againnomatter who was presenting.

Sorry it was a bitter and twisted post, to overly push the point. The ignorant nature of the voting intentions of the majority of the electorate. These are the genuine reasons I have heard leading up to the election.
Not a single person has said to me I won't vote for Labour because I know their policies and disagree with them.

Personality is becoming more and more crucial in general elections. If Labour want to win the next one, They will need to focus on presentation of the leader. We have become America.

 

[Don Quixote]

Too left wing. Tony Blair already called it ages ago.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Sorry it was a bitter and twisted post, to overly push the point. The ignorant nature of the voting intentions of the majority of the electorate. These are the genuine reasons I have heard leading up to the election.
Not a single person has said to me I won't vote for Labour because I know their policies and disagree with them.

Personality is becoming more and more crucial in general elections. If Labour want to win the next one, They will need to focus on presentation of the leader. We have become America.

I will add that the single biggest lie over the past 5 years is that labour where responsible for the recession.
We all know what happened. We all remember the sub-prime chaos. We all remember Northern rock, RBS, Lloyds bailouts!!! FFS!!!!

And yet for 5 years we have swallowed the lie that it was somehow Gordon Brown's fault! He bailed out Northern Rock so that Uk savers did not lose their Money! Not because he likes pissing away all the money because he's an idiot!

We know that don't we? We aren't all ignorant CJTCs are we?

I understand that if you are a Tory you will happily perpetuate the lie, but surely most people don't believe this sht. Do they?

It worries me how much obvious BS we are prepared to accept as truth these days. We seem to be too lazy to question the infobollox that gets streamed to us 24/7.

 

[Hampster Gull]

I will add that the single biggest lie over the past 5 years is that labour where responsible for the recession.
We all know what happened. We all remember the sub-prime chaos. We all remember Northern rock, RBS, Lloyds bailouts!!! FFS!!!!

And yet for 5 years we have swallowed the lie that it was somehow Gordon Brown's fault! He bailed out Northern Rock so that Uk savers did not lose their Money! Not because he likes pissing away all the money because he's an idiot!

We know that don't we? We aren't all ignorant CJTCs are we?

I understand that if you are a Tory you will happily perpetuate the lie, but surely most people don't believe this sht. Do they?

It worries me how much obvious BS we are prepared to accept as truth these days. We seem to be too lazy to question the infobollox that gets streamed to us 24/7.

I disagreee, they were culpable along with some others. With power comes great responsibility.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Reflecting on the result, do you think that Labour were too centre left and should have been more to the left in their policies, or too much to the left and should have been more centre left?

Honestly believe people just saw Weird Ed on the box, trying and failing to come across as a passionate defender of 'hard working families' while talking out of the side of his mouth in a smart suit with zero apparent conviction. Hell yes! Cameron was smarter, upped his game, rolled up his sleeves (his John Major soap box moment) and came across as far more passionate than his opposite number. Only time Milliband appeared to display any genuine sense of passion was in his resignation speech. He won't be missed. Maybe he was even set up to fail this time around.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I disagreee, they were culpable along with some others. With power comes great responsibility.

I'm sorry but I don't remember what they were culpable in?

I remember thinking that they should have nationalised RBS and Northern Rock. Any future profits should have come directly to the treasury. This is what any private company would have done.
But fully understand why Gordon Brown opted not to do this.
The press would have killed him for nationalising something he effectively bought out.

It's possible that I have missed something, but what did Labour do that was irresponsible?

I mean in comparison to john major propping up the pound and spunking billions on a battle against the ERM.
Causing the previous recession. Leading to thousands of Uk citizens losing their homes as interest rates trebled over night.

 

[Bozza]

Reflecting on the result, do you think that Labour were too centre left and should have been more to the left in their policies, or too much to the left and should have been more centre left?

Too far left for England, too far right for Scotland. They've got a problem sorting that out.

I think the changes in boundaries delivers something like 20 extra Tory seats too which isn't going to help them much either.

 

[Hampster Gull]

I'm sorry but I don't remember what they were culpable in?

I remember thinking that they should have nationalised RBS and Northern Rock. Any future profits should have come directly to the treasury. This is what any private company would have done.
But fully understand why Gordon Brown opted not to do this.
The press would have killed him for nationalising something he effectively bought out.

It's possible that I have missed something, but what did Labour do that was irresponsible?

I mean in comparison to john major propping up the pound and spunking billions on a battle against the ERM.
Causing the previous recession. Leading to thousands of Uk citizens losing their homes as interest rates trebled over night.

Ok, very briefly and simpy as ive done this to dealth on here over the last few months. They were in charge of regulating the city. They chose to compete with NY for the most business through the least regulation. We all lost out after the party. They also were imprudent with the deficit when they should have been gave been setting it aside for the rainy day, much as germany and other well manage countries do. But hey, i suspect you dont agree with me and i understand that, i am just pleased the country got it. Its a ling road back from here

 

[looney]

I think Miliband .... Guff n stuff.

I actually agree with what you say, well apart from peoples malability by the media that is.

There are a few things you need to acknowledge though.

The UK is stuffed full of tory types, they like having 2 toryish parties in the same way you would like 2 leftish parties to choose from. Giving contniual rising wealth this will continue, if the revolution is gonna happen it will be here last or we will dodge it.

Flooding the country with immigrants and pandering to the race card isnt going to change that, for one you are always tempting the spectre of the far right, secondly given the population density its not feasible or sustainable.

You really need a Plan B. Something that will appeal to the growing number of affluent that will not involve screwing them.

 

[beorhthelm]

Miliband got it just right, left enough to hold the party together sick of Blair's wet Toryism, but right enough for a reasonable middle ground of non-ideological voter. He was just unlucky the Scotland issue flared up and the Tories used it to whip up English nationalism and a scare campaign against the terrible thing of allowing Scots some influence in government.

what a chuckle i had reading this tale. poor unlucky Miliband, its all the fault of those nasty Tories and Scotish Nationalist (oh, and the media of course). trouble with this, the proverbial elephant in the room, is why Miliband lost Scotland in the first place. and to a party to the left, losing seats that had voted against indepedence. so, either they were too left for England while not left enough for Scotland, or maybe the problem was Miliband. you cant cut it both ways, either he or his policies weren't right for the country.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Ok, very briefly and simpy as ive done this to dealth on here over the last few months. They were in charge of regulating the city. They chose to compete with NY for the most business through the least regulation. We all lost out after the party. They also were imprudent with the deficit when they should have been gave been setting it aside for the rainy day, much as germany and other well manage countries do. But hey, i suspect you dont agree with me and i understand that, i am just pleased the country got it. Its a ling road back from here

Yes it's a long way back. The Tories would not have done anything differently to Gordon Brown. In good times Tories give tax cuts labour spend on services.

You either believe in one ideology or the other.. You and I will never agree on which is better. That is the nature of politics, it's like football supporters in many ways.
I object to the lie that Labour can't be trusted with the economy.

IMHO, The Major government f@@ked up the economy with far greater implications to the population, than Gordon Brown. The effect was catastrophic to many people. My mum lost her house and her ability to function in society. She bought into the idea that home ownership was freedom. She ended up desolate and homeless after the ERM fiasco. I was 19 and could not help. She floundered around for 17 years.

I'm biased because my family has suffered directly from piss poor political decisions having a clear and direct effect on us.
However the argument that the GB government is directly responsible for the recession is seriously flawed.
It implies culpability to a far greater extent than is truly applicable, IMHO.

 

[portslade seagull]

What's the players name and I'll let you know, Are we trying to sign him ?

 

[warmleyseagull]

Miliband was wrong brother; that is the nub of it. I am a floating voter but could never have voted for him; never mind gaffes, he simply didn't get that he was way behind in economic competence. Evidence is that many agreed.

That plus a squeeze on Labour from all directions: Conservative in south; UKIP in North; SNP in Scotland, almost as if Labour were the incumbent party. TBH, not sure where Labour goes from here. They didn't even do all that well in Wales.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Yes it's a long way back. The Tories would not have done anything differently to Gordon Brown. In good times Tories give tax cuts labour spend on services.

You either believe in one ideology or the other.. You and I will never agree on which is better. That is the nature of politics, it's like football supporters in many ways.
I object to the lie that Labour can't be trusted with the economy.

IMHO, The Major government f@@ked up the economy with far greater implications to the population, than Gordon Brown. The effect was catastrophic to many people. My mum lost her house and her ability to function in society. She bought into the idea that home ownership was freedom. She ended up desolate and homeless after the ERM fiasco. I was 19 and could not help. She floundered around for 17 years.

I'm biased because my family has suffered directly from piss poor political decisions having a clear and direct effect on us.
However the argument that the GB government is directly responsible for the recession is seriously flawed.
It implies culpability to a far greater extent than is truly applicable, IMHO.

Ok, understand. Individual families can suffer under any party, its life. I am genuinely sorry to hear your particular story of course

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Ok, understand. Individual families can suffer under any party, its life. I am genuinely sorry to hear your particular story of course

Thanks. My mum was not alone. There were thousands of people who lost their homes during this time. For some reason most people have forgotten about it.
The government controlled interest rates at that time. The conservatives decided to raise interest rates after their failure to prop up the pound against the ERM.They were culpable in the choice to treble the cost of mortgages.
This was during the peak of the endowment mortgage. Many many people were he bankrupt over night.

When the labour government were elected, Gordon Brown passed control of interest rates to the Bank of England.
This decision has kept interest rates low for a very long time. Which has kept the housing market stable and reliable.
One of the fundamental elements of the British economy.
This was a good thing. A sensible thing. Which has benefited the majority of Southern English voters over the last 15 years.
However no credit is ever given to Gordon Brown for this.

 

[RexCathedra]

Many many people went bankrupt over night.

Yeah, but people who matter made a killing.
And isn't that what's really important?

 

[Hampster Gull]

Thanks. My mum was not alone. There were thousands of people who lost their homes during this time. For some reason most people have forgotten about it.
The government controlled interest rates at that time. The conservatives decided to raise interest rates after their failure to prop up the pound against the ERM.They were culpable in the choice to treble the cost of mortgages.
This was during the peak of the endowment mortgage. Many many people were he bankrupt over night.

When the labour government were elected, Gordon Brown passed control of interest rates to the Bank of England.
This decision has kept interest rates low for a very long time. Which has kept the housing market stable and reliable.
One of the fundamental elements of the British economy.
This was a good thing. A sensible thing. Which has benefited the majority of Southern English voters over the last 15 years.
However no credit is ever given to Gordon Brown for this.

Yes, the era of no more boom and bust and that for the points made before ultimately caused the country far more pain than the it experienced in your example. Or the time before, when labour eent to the IMF for funding and lead the country into the winter of discontent.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Yes, the era of no more boom and bust and that for the points made before ultimately caused the country far more pain than the it experienced in your example. Or the time before, when labour eent to the IMF for funding and lead the country into the winter of discontent.

what pain? I'm sorry but I have given you a genuine example of the effect of policy on individuals. Thousands of individuals lost there homes because they could not afford to pay 16% interest on their mortgages.

The global recession has left Britain with a deficit. Which is either being paid off by austerity measures, or not depending on which political persuasion you lean too.
Those people who could have lost everything during the crisis, but were given some protection by the Labour government. Not left to go homeless, like the previous government did.

My point is that both Parties have had to deal with issues that have led to recessions in the economy.
Bad stuff happens.
Governments make a call. With power comes responsibility. GB made a call to minimise catastrophic impact to blameless individuals.

Ed Milliband has not said I'm gonna spend my way out of this mess.
So why does the myth that it is only labour who cannot be trusted with the economy perpetuate?
It isn't based on current policy, or historical evidence.
It is only Propaganda. IMHO.