Too Socialist or too Centre Left?

[London Irish]

'Milliband got it right'.
Blimey,what would have happened if he'd cocked up then

A retreat into the 20s percentages. Miliband built the Labour vote from 2010 remember, it's just the Lib Dem voters cut out the middle man and went straight to the Tories

 

[BLOCK F]

I think the point of democracy is to give people a choice - Thatcher did say her greatest achievement was Blair. I hope Cameron's won't be Chuka bloody Umanna

I would think he will be one of the runners as will Andy Burnham.
Think it would be a mistake to appoint Burnham, although he has his fans.

 

[Triggaaar]

He was just unlucky the Scotland issue flared up and the Tories used it to whip up English nationalism and a scare campaign against the terrible thing of allowing Scots some influence in government.

I expect that played a part, but if the voters had believed in Labour then we'd have put Labour in, and they wouldn't have needed the SNP. We've had a coalition that hasn't exactly shone, and there was every opportunity for Labour to win, but people don't trust them with the economy.

 

[Buzzer]

England belongs to the 'burbs. I think the Labour Party is seen as the party of Metropolitan and urban areas so in that respect, too left wing for Middle England whilst simultaneously appearing too distant, too right-wing for its core working class vote.

Bry Nylon hit it on the head the other day when he said that Miliband doesn't understand suburban aspiration.

And in Scotland they were onto a hiding regardless of left or right. The poor Tory and Labour performances during and immediately after the referendum vote encouraged the SNP to exploit that.

If they want to be Blairite then don't put a geeky apparatchik as leader. He lacks charisma. But if they want to re-align to the left after this then for God's sake don't vote in another career politician that working class people can't identify with.

In short, I don't think it was too left or right that lost them this election, it was the hangover from the referendum, a lack of focus on what they truly stand for and they had the wrong man leading them. And that's about as honest a summary as this lifelong anti-Labour voter can get.

 

[BLOCK F]

What pushed the Conservatives rightward was UKIP. But still -- the Tories have let English nationalism out of the genie bottle - so let's see if it screws them up in the Euro referendum.

It's Europe what brought down Thatcher after all

Personally,I hope we vote to stay in EU and I think we will.

 

[London Irish]

I would think he will be one of the runners as will Andy Burnham.
Think it would be a mistake to appoint Burnham, although he has his fans.

He'd be better than some. Said a lot of good things about New Labour's mistakes on marketising the NHS

 

[London Irish]

In short, I don't think it was too left or right that lost them this election, it was the hangover from the referendum, a lack of focus on what they truly stand for and they had the wrong man leading them. And that's about as honest a summary as this lifelong anti-Labour voter can get.

Meet you halfway and agree in saying Indyref was crucial, arguably Miliband was dead in the water from then on - Crosby and the Tories devised their anti-Scots scare strategy straight afterwards and English working class voters will always rally to the officer class if there is a foreigner bogeyman, so we got a mini Falklands.

Imagine if the Scots had got their 50.1 % , would have reduced the Tories to chaos, Cameron certainly forced to resign and Ed would probably have sailed in to lead a "New England"

 

[Surf's Up]

There's a danger that Labour will implode as they try to decide whether to go back to being a centre left party or move more to the left. Their problem is that, in reality, there's only one way for them to go if they want to stand any chance of getting back into power in 2015. And Yvette Cooper should be a shoe-in for their next leader . IMHO.

 

[Surf's Up]

and they need to keep a weather eye on Wales.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Too left wing. Without doubt. My Mum and Step dad are both Tory voters, and were excited by Blair's agenda. This time they were horrified I voted red.... They saw Ed as a route back for the unions. That, in a nutshell, was their problem

 

[Blue3]

where are the conviction politicians on the left of English politics look at Scotland the SNP have shown passion the English left of centre has failed to do

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I think the policies in general were ok, i think it was the Miliband's personality and his relatively passive campaign.

If he had shown more aggression and a killer instinct he would have come off better. This lack of aggression i think mislead some into thinking he is a weak character and perhaps is a flaw in a typical politician.

 

[Bry Nylon]

The country hasn't elected a truly Labour prime minister since Harold Wilson in 1974. As a movement it is dead in all but name as frankly nobody is sure what - or more importantly who - the Labour party is for anymore.

 

[London Irish]

There's a danger that Labour will implode as they try to decide whether to go back to being a centre left party or move more to the left. Their problem is that, in reality, there's only one way for them to go if they want to stand any chance of getting back into power in 2015. And Yvette Cooper should be a shoe-in for their next leader . IMHO.

Mrs Ed Balls? And what do you think the Tory press will make of that? Do you think you would ever see a picture of her without her hubbie who was ruthlessly "defined" by the tabloids to oblivion?

Agree it's a tough choice but it needs someone who agreed with Miliband's critique of the vacuous pointlessness of New Labour. And a practised sandwich eater obviously.

 

[crookie]

Stuck between a rock and a hard place, accused of being Austerity Lite by the SNP, and too worried about their economic credibility to do anything radical. The Tories set the economic agenda, and Ed couldn't shake it off, not helped by Ball's failed predictions about rising unemployment etc. Would like a genuinely alternative opposition but the trouble with that is that the electorate these days is pretty much in the centre ground so a lurch to the left won't make tem any more popular. Tough times ahead I think for Labour

 

[ROKERITE]

What pushed the Conservatives rightward was UKIP. But still -- the Tories have let English nationalism out of the genie bottle - so let's see if it screws them up in the Euro referendum.

It's Europe what brought down Thatcher after all

It's not The Tories who've let English nationalism out of the genie bottle, but it could well be The Tories who benefit from it. Labour and The SNP are directly responsible for the growing annoyance of the English with the continually moaning, whinging Scots.
I have always been proud to be British, I have never thought of myself as English. Now I'm having, at an advanced age, to accept The Union could be coming to an end and it saddens me. Blair pushed the idea of Scottish Devolution in the disastrously mistaken belief it would stop any calls for independence. Instead it looks like it has made independence inevitable. Just listen to and read what so many Scots are saying and the bitter, hate-filled way they are saying it. It is hardly surprising that they are getting English backs up and that the completely new phenomenon of English nationalism is on the rise, but let's put the blame for that where it belongs.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Policy? I don't think it matters anymore. Most complaints I have heard are these: Ed looks like Wallace. Not statesmanlike . Bacon Sandwich. Beware the Scots.

Labour could have Stalinist policies. if they could just get George Clooney to head up the party they'd get a landslide victory.

 

[The Camel]

Policy? I don't think it matters anymore. Most complaints I have heard are these: Ed looks like Wallace. Not statesmanlike . Bacon Sandwich. Beware the Scots.

Labour could have Stalinist policies. if they could just get George Clooney to head up the party they'd get a landslide victory.

George is pretty left wing.

Maybe he'll be up for it.

 

[soistes]

Exactly right.

That and the fact they lost the personality contest.

Agree with both points, but also worth adding that Labour was persistently dogged by being unable to shake off the tag that they 'bankrupted the economy' or 'caused the deficit' or similar. Despite the fact that the evidence and consensus opinion among most economists doesn't really support that view (although they did under-regulate the banks under Brown and Blair, and acknowledged that), the public perception that Labour was not economically competent, reinforced by biased media campaigns by the right wing press, was the final nail in the coffin I think.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Agree it's a tough choice but it needs someone who agreed with Miliband's critique of the vacuous pointlessness of New Labour.

But New Labour won three consecutive majorities, so obviously not vacuous and pointless so far as the UK electorate was concerned? This is exactly why 'old' Labour serves no purpose anymore - it offers nothing that voters want. How many more defeats does old Labour need to suffer until they get it?