To all of brave soldiers who are being made redundant.

[Charlies Shinpad]

I think it's because being paid and trained to invade foreign lands, ransack homes and kill people, and then doing it, fucks you up pretty bad.

Sorry.

You f***ing prick

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I think it's because being paid and trained to invade foreign lands, ransack homes and kill people, and then doing it, fucks you up pretty bad.

Sorry.

A friend of mine died in Birmingham from injuries suffered in Afghanistan. Despite his life threatening wound, he managed to lead his troops to safety.

He was never trained to ransack homes, as you so bluntly put it.

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

Dingodan would you care to meet me and my two sons outside the Amex and have a chat about this ??

 

[dingodan]

A friend of mine died in Birmingham from injuries suffered in Afghanistan. Despite his life threatening wound, he managed to lead his troops to safety.

He was never trained to ransack homes, as you so bluntly put it.

When I say that, I don't say it as a criticism of the soldiers, its a criticism of what they are asked to do. I actually say it out of sympathy, because I am talking about the very things which lead to the difficulty vets endure when they return, which was what was being discussed.

I don't question the heroism of your friend for a second.

 

[dingodan]

Dingodan would you care to meet me and my two sons outside the Amex and have a chat about this ??

Grow up.

 

[ifuhatepalacestandup]

Why the attitude? The question was why do so many vets seem to end up on the streets turning to drugs and alcohol?

The answer is, because war fucks people up.

You might not like it, but it's true.

i was in the forces for 9 years and funnily enough in all that time i never received any training in how to ransack a house, and never fought in a foreign land. I served in Northern Ireland, Germany, and the Falklands , so sorry I do not rely identify with your warped vision of what a soldiers job is and if you where not trying to be as insulting as you could with your description, then i apologize for thinking that.
however if you where trying to insult me i to would be willing to meet and discuss this matter with you

 

[dingodan]

i was in the forces for 9 years and funnily enough in all that time i never received any training in how to ransack a house, and never fought in a foreign land. I served in Northern Ireland, Germany, and the Falklands , so sorry I do not rely identify with your warped vision of what a soldiers job is and if you where not trying to be as insulting as you could with your description, then i apologize for thinking that.
however if you where trying to insult me i to would be willing to meet and discuss this matter with you

You don't need to apologize, because I can see how my post seemed to be insulting, but no it was not meant to be.

"I tried hard to be proud of my service. but all I could feel was shame. Racism could no longer mask the reality of the occupation. These were people. These were human beings. I've since been plagued by guilt anytime I see an elderly man like the one who couldn't walk, who we rolled onto a stretcher and told the Iraqi police to take him away. I feel guilt anytime I see a mother with her children like the one who cried hysterically and screamed that we were worst than Saddam as we forced her from her home. I feel guilt anytime I see a young girl like the one I grabbed by the arm and dragged into the street. We are told we are fighting terrorists. The real terrorist was me, and the real terrorism is this occupation."

The above statement from a Veteran of the Iraq war is the kind of realisation I was saying is leading to the problems faced by returning troops. Guilt and shame at things they had done, or seen done. That is the reality. The psychological conseqences of the above are what befall alot of vets and lead them to homelessness and substance abuse. If you care about them, and want to help them, the first thing you have to do is acknowledge this reality.

 

[del_boy]

A large proportion of ex servicemen go and work for private security firms abroad anyway - and get paid a bloody fortune for doing so. I know an ex CSM who became a "private security guard" in Iraq for 6 months and earned more in those 6 months than he would have earnt in 3 years.

This is true, my mate is ex-armed forces he now works for a private security firm in Iraq, He's away for a couple of months each time when he comes back he's minted.

 

[del_boy]

A lot of ex-police start up private detective companies after serving the police force, they earn more than they did when they were police.

 

[Worthingite]

I think it's because being paid and trained to invade foreign lands, ransack homes and kill people, and then doing it, fucks you up pretty bad.

Sorry.

Unbelievable. You've never been anywhere near the armed forces have you? My Dad, Uncles, and both Grandfathers were in the forces, with my Dad and two of my uncles seeing action in the Falklands, and one of those Uncles served 5 tours in NI, and served in Bosnia. Due to my health I wasn't able to serve, but would have done without a seconds hesitation.

I cannot even begin to describe how offensive the comment you made would be to those that have served in one conflict or another. Their primary objective was to serve Queen and Country, in whatever capacity expected of them. I don't expect everyone to be patriotic, or support the armed forces, but I would expect most people to show the people that serve our country a bit of respect and gratitude for doing a job that most people could not even begin to understand.

 

[dingodan]

Unbelievable. You've never been anywhere near the armed forces have you? My Dad, Uncles, and both Grandfathers were in the forces, with my Dad and two of my uncles seeing action in the Falklands, and one of those Uncles served 5 tours in NI, and served in Bosnia. Due to my health I wasn't able to serve, but would have done without a seconds hesitation.

I cannot even begin to describe how offensive the comment you made would be to those that have served in one conflict or another. Their primary objective was to serve Queen and Country, in whatever capacity expected of them. I don't expect everyone to be patriotic, or support the armed forces, but I would expect most people to show the people that serve our country a bit of respect and gratitude for doing a job that most people could not even begin to understand.

My dad was in the Armed forces, and served in Northern Ireland. My post has created a lot of emotional responses, and that is good, I am glad the description I posted does not sit well with people. It shouldn't. But you guys are suggesting I am painting some kind of unrealistic view of what British troops, and others, are doing. You don't like me saying "ransacking homes", but what do you call it?

When soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan "clear" villages and populated areas, they do so by forcing entry into peoples homes and pointing automatic weapons at them. They force people out of their homes and onto the street. They then separate women and young children from the men. If the identity of the males cannot be readily ascertained, they are hooded and taken away to be questioned. Their families are not told where they are being taken, or why. Sometimes they come home, sometimes they don't.

I don't know what you people imagine goes on in war, but war is ugly. Even a righteous war, even a war you believe is just, is ugly. Because war is by it's very nature, ugly.

The ugliness of war, and what people have to do in war, sometimes justified, sometimes not, leaves people f***ed up afterward. I really don't see why this is so hard to understand.

 

[GNF on Tour]

What soldiers do for this country is unrivaled by anything else. They are shown a lot of respect by a lot of people and organisations but also shown a lot of ignorant disrespect by people who don't understand what it is they have done.

Bollocks.

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

Dingo dan what planet are you on and what shit have you been reading ?
I'm ex Forces and my two sons are serving,
My youngest who is not yet 22 has done yours of Iraq and Afghan and they are fifth generation forces in my family.
No sign of your misguided judgement in him I'm afraid to say as he is also Para trained as well which I suppose in your eyes would make him a baby killer as well ??
All I offered you was a chance to have a civil discussion outside The Amex with them and me and then you would see what a cock you are making of yourself on here !!
PS Just glad your not my son !

 

[BadFish]

Dingo dan what planet are you on and what shit have you been reading ?
I'm ex Forces and my two sons are serving,
My youngest who is not yet 22 has done yours of Iraq and Afghan and they are fifth generation forces in my family.
No sign of your misguided judgement in him I'm afraid to say as he is also Para trained as well which I suppose in your eyes would make him a baby killer as well ??
All I offered you was a chance to have a civil discussion outside The Amex with them and me and then you would see what a cock you are making of yourself on here !!
PS Just glad your not my son !

I have read similar reports written about what happens in iraq and afghanistan to the ones mentioned by Dingo. Are they completely inaccurate?

It is really hard to know what goes on during wartime as most people I have met who have served don't want to talk about it and i always assumed that this was because it was f***ing horrible and they didn't want to relive it.

As someone that has sons who have served can you shed any light on what really happened in iraq and afghanistan. I would love to meet you at the Amex to hear all about it but it is rather a long way.

 

[ifuhatepalacestandup]

quote "I don't know what you people imagine goes on in war, but war is ugly. Even a righteous war, even a war you believe is just, is ugly. Because war is by it's very nature, ugly"


Well son i do know what happens in war having had first hand experience of it so please don't presume to lecture me about what you THINK happens because unless you have walked a mile in my shoes you have no right to criticize

 

[public school boy]

Don't worry about it. The intention is exactly that, for large private security firms to absorb the former service personnel and police being laid off.

Then large areas of policing will be outsourced to these unaccountable private entities, which will become a private domestic army for our corporate/political rulers.

No longer accountable to the people, no longer motivated by appeals to the public good.

I think the idea of having a rapid response group to go into Unruly estates at 3 in the morning to drag known trouble makers, drug dealers/pushers and other undesirables out of their stinking pits, is exactly what this country needs. I am also in favor of having everyone micro chipped. This would free up our over stretched Police force. Those who have done nothing wrong have nothing to fear. I did once suggest to the ex Chief of the Defense staff that he should organise a military coup, but he did not think it would be a good idea. I got the impression that he thought I was an idiot

 

[BadFish]

quote "I don't know what you people imagine goes on in war, but war is ugly. Even a righteous war, even a war you believe is just, is ugly. Because war is by it's very nature, ugly"


Well son i do know what happens in war having had first hand experience of it so please don't presume to lecture me about what you THINK happens because unless you have walked a mile in my shoes you have no right to criticize

To be fair Dingo is just reacting to what he has read happens. Are you saying the accounts that dingo has posted from soldiers are inaccurate?

I am ignoring his clumsy and insensitive opening post on the subject. I have read many accounts similar to those posted and am genuinely intersted in your take on them as someone who has served.

 

[goldstone]

You f***ing prick

That comment is way out of line.

He does have a point. Doing some of the stuff the military are trained to do hardly assists you to lead a normal life afterwards. It must be tough to adjust. are you denying this?

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

The reports you have read were probably done by Piers Morgan in his time as Daily Mirror Editor when he fabricated stories about British Soldiers in Iraq to sell his papers .
I've seen a few videos my son brought back from Afghan and it is a messy war out there.
If anyone fancies shitting in a plastic bag for 6 months and washing your clothes in a cement mixer every other day and freezing your nuts off in winter because the government give you sub standard equipment , living out of ration packs except one day a week .
I could go on and on but I will stop there.
I'm proud to have served my country and I know my sons are as well and doing what they do allows people like Dingo dan to have freedom of expression and to live a normal repression free life style because if he had posted those comments in another country he wouldn't be a free man now !
If anyone wants to talk to a young lad who is proud to serve then PM me and we can all meet up before October at The Amex over a beer before he starts his Pre op training for deployment to Afghan again
You listening Dingo Dan ?

 

[NickBHAFC18]

Methodologies the Americans follow compared to the British troops is very different. The British conduct themselves A LOT better than SOME of the American troops out there. I have nothing but respect for the forces, and will be looking to join within the near future, it's always been something I have wanted to do.