The ultimate REFERENDUM thread

[5ways]

The in campaign should be working on Project Reality.Showing us the amazing things that are happening because we are in the EU.Instead they are working on Project Fear because they have nothing to boast about.On the other hand the leave campaign is working on Project Positive because we see the benefits in leaving and we know we are more than capable of moving forward and growing as a nation.

What has the EU ever done for us?


57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking,
arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

Keep the peace for 60 years.
Help usher post-soviet states into democracy and freedom - and serve as a model for others.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/11/whats-eu-ever-done-us

What have the Outters ever done for us?
Whine;
Moan;
Throw tantrums;
Take EU taxpayer money and not show up for work

 

[Hampster Gull]

What has the EU ever done for us?


57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking,
arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

Keep the peace for 60 years.
Help usher post-soviet states into democracy and freedom - and serve as a model for others.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/11/whats-eu-ever-done-us

What have the Outters ever done for us?
Whine;
Moan;
Throw tantrums;
Take EU taxpayer money and not show up for work

Indeed. Critically peace in Europe

 

[Maldini]

What has the EU ever done for us?


57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking,
arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

Keep the peace for 60 years.
Help usher post-soviet states into democracy and freedom - and serve as a model for others.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/11/whats-eu-ever-done-us

What have the Outters ever done for us?
Whine;
Moan;
Throw tantrums;
Take EU taxpayer money and not show up for work

and we will have most of these when we leave.Thankyou.

 

[Maldini]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...benefits-of-staying-in-the-EU-or-leaving.html

'Far from offering every consumer and business the benefits of a wider domestic market, after 40 years of membership, less than 5 per cent of UK companies directly export to the EU yet all are forced to bear the burden of its regulations. The EU is not a free trade area but a customs union, and one which has spectacularly failed to deliver trade deals with rising economic giants like China. This is a damning failure: over the last few years, countries far smaller than the UK but, crucially, outside the EU (including Iceland and Switzerland) have been able to secure free trade agreements with Beijing.

Finally, there would also be a chance to increase prosperity for everyone. From an economic perspective, Britain has nothing to fear from leaving the EU, and the oft-cited claim that it would lose access to a large and important market fails to stand up to scrutiny. The considerable work that has been done over the last 40 years to bring down international tariffs has, in many ways, made the EU redundant'

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What has the EU ever done for us?


57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking,
arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

Keep the peace for 60 years.
Help usher post-soviet states into democracy and freedom - and serve as a model for others.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/11/whats-eu-ever-done-us

But after BREXIT the UK will be free to do all this itself as well as set up hundreds of free trade agreements........apparently.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

What has the EU ever done for us?


57% of our trade; - no trade without the EU then
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline; - thanks for giving back some of our money
clean beaches and rivers; - we didn't realise this would be a good thing without the EU
cleaner air; - good point we would have all suffocated without the EU
lead free petrol; - the EU invented lead free petrol?
restrictions on landfill dumping; - saved the day and the planet.
a recycling culture; - recycling delusional EU propaganda yes
cheaper mobile charges; - prices never drop outside the Eu then.
cheaper air travel; - Budget airlines exist outside of Europe
improved consumer protection and food labelling; - Unachievable without ceding sovereignty obviously
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives; - would never have thought of doing that, saved by the EU
better product safety; - Better than British standards?
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance; - oh yes Europe's economy is booming!
break up of monopolies; - which monopolies?
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection; - Well worth the £8 - 11 Billion pound net cost.
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market; - No EU related bureaucracy adding cost to business .. really.
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone; - Don't mention the Eurozone stupid ..own goal.
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe; - Yes that's going swimmingly.
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad; - It's our f**king money.
access to European health services; - Yes we noticed them hence the waiting times.
labour protection and enhanced social welfare; - Enhanced to a minimum standard that we already exceed.
smoke-free workplaces; - Thanks EU we didn't realise smoking was dangerous.
equal pay legislation; - What you mean equal pay is a good thing?
holiday entitlement; - No holidays outside the EU.
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime; - Unless you're an EU immigrant in the UK
strongest wildlife protection in the world; - The One legged Newt salutes you.
improved animal welfare in food production; - Two pats on the back plus an EU badge before being slaughtered?
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration; - It's not EU money it's ours.
EU representation in international forums; - Uk United Nations Security Council seat so FU.
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO; - Yes our voice diminished to just one of 28.
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty; - LOL
European arrest warrant; - Hands up who wants to be extradited tomorrow with no say to Romania and rely on their legal system?
cross border policing to combat human trafficking,- In a borderless Schengen zone yeah right.
arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence; - Really? ... Paris, Brussels, shame on you.
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa; - Bog off NATO does it better.
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond; - Unless it conflicts with the EU project.
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital. - For the last time it's our FU**ING money!

Keep the peace for 60 years. - See NATO
Help usher post-soviet states into democracy and freedom - and serve as a model for others. - Great intervention in the Ukraine

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/11/whats-eu-ever-done-us

What have the Outters ever done for us? - Fought for their country?
Whine;
Moan;
Throw tantrums;
Take EU taxpayer money and not show up for work

Biggest advertisement for Brexit I have seen .. nice job.

 

[brighton bluenose]

What has the EU ever done for us?


57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking,
arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

Keep the peace for 60 years.
Help usher post-soviet states into democracy and freedom - and serve as a model for others.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/11/whats-eu-ever-done-us

What have the Outters ever done for us?
Whine;
Moan;
Throw tantrums;
Take EU taxpayer money and not show up for work

Of course there's not a SINGLE NEGATIVE whatsoever in remaining in the EU is there?!

 

[5ways]

Of course there's not a SINGLE NEGATIVE whatsoever in remaining in the EU is there?!

Definitely not saying that is the case! There is plenty wrong with the EU, but on balance....

 

[crookie]

For me if all you're interested in is financial stability and certainty then vote stay. If you think we could be better at running our own affairs better, vote out. God knows our politicians have been lacking in recent years, but you never know, they might step up to the plate. IMO we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. On the fence

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

 

[pastafarian]

But after BREXIT the UK will be free to do all this itself as well as set up hundreds of free trade agreements........apparently.

its true .....free from brussels we can trade with anyone,so yes hundreds of trade agreements are a reality

 

[Deleted member 22389]

What has the EU ever done for us?


57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking,
arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

Keep the peace for 60 years.
Help usher post-soviet states into democracy and freedom - and serve as a model for others.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/11/whats-eu-ever-done-us

What have the Outters ever done for us?
Whine;
Moan;
Throw tantrums;
Take EU taxpayer money and not show up for work

Peace in Europe doesn't need to cost us 53 million quid a day, remind yourself of that figure and the good this money could actually do for our own country and our own people. Probably build a new hospital every week with the money we send them. How the hell can anyone support this.

10,000 European Union Officials better paid than David Cameron
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10847979/10000-European-Union-officials-better-paid-than-David-Cameron.html

What your paying for is the **** hotels, posh buildings, it's a con. Europe existed long before this bullshit came along.
http://www.garry-bushell.co.uk/brussels.htm

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

its true .....free from brussels we can trade with anyone,so yes hundreds of trade agreements are a reality

If they want to trade with you. And you have to set these up, which will take time. These things don't just happen over night, shall I come back in 10-15 years?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Peace in Europe doesn't need to cost us 53 million quid a day, remind yourself of that figure and the good this money could actually do for our own country and our own people. Probably build a new hospital every week with the money we send them. How the hell can anyone support this.

10,000 European Union Officials better paid than David Cameron
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10847979/10000-European-Union-officials-better-paid-than-David-Cameron.html

What your paying for is the **** hotels, posh buildings, it's a con. Europe existed long before this bullshit came along.
http://www.garry-bushell.co.uk/brussels.htm

Whats the full financial value of the EU to the UK though? What's the net gain or loss on this 53m ? You're only telling half the story.

 

[melias shoes]

Definitely There is plenty wrong with the EU.

Agreed.

 

[melias shoes]

Biggest advertisement for Brexit I have seen .. nice job.

Good work.

 

[jgmcdee]

I agree. The underlying point to my question, sorry for not being clearer, was how political considerations (ever closer union) override economics no matter the damage inflicted on the economies and more importantly the peoples of member states. It also overrides the wishes of some of those people and circumvents democracy. The growing pains of a superstate if you will.

Yes there will be mis-steps, and indeed there have been, but no I don't think that pure political considerations override economics in general (and in particular in the near future given the concerns over the fallout from Greece). If politics is the art of the possible then economics is the science of the possible, and in most situations you can't have the former without some backing from the latter. I feel that this is about Greece (forgive me if I misinterpreted) and will comment on that specifically where you call it out below.

"overrides the wishes of some of those people and circumvents democracy" is a very frustrating thing to read. In what way does democracy protect the wishes of every person? Last time I checked I lived in a democracy but it has done a pretty good job of not acceeding to my wishes.

Somewhat slower is one way of putting it. Negotiating for the mutual benefit of 2 countries will be likely to be a tad faster than accommodating the often conflicting needs of 29. I haven't seen any evidence that collective bargaining leads to better deals for the UK but have seen evidence the opposite is true. If the Swiss can get free trade deals with China and Japan it would be a shame to have to wait until the EU finally gets round to allowing us to do the same, perhaps in our lifetime if we're lucky. Diversifying the risk of over reliance on one trade block will not only be essential to help protect us from the ongoing Eurozone problems but also mitigate any loss of access to the EU free market.

This is probably where I feel most strongly that the pro- Vs anti-EU show up. In the same way you could say that UK-wide trade agreements take a long time because they require the consideration of four countries or tens of counties (on the UK side alone) but don't, I think that of it as a single EU bloc rather than 28 countries. It might take more time to work out the requirements for trade agreements in general given the EU's overall size but that has by and large already been done, and I doubt that each member state starts from scratch for each individual trade agreement. Once the EU has their list of requirements for a trade deal together it speaks with a single voice in negotiating that agreement. Also, looking at the map of current and proposed agreements[1] it seems that most of the work has already been done or is happening now (with China being the single notable exception, but then with the exception of ASEAN I'd say that China has 0 significant trade agreements in place anyway). If we left the EU we'd have to start again, and even if it was quicker this time around and the agreements provided similar benefits it would take a long time to return to where we are today.

I mean the only way the Eurozone can move forward or survive is for large transfers of funds from richer nations to bail out the poorer failing members. We have some opt outs now but will this be the case in the future. Blair gave away a large chunk of our rebate for naff all it would be no surprise to see a future pro EU government follow a similar path. I also mentioned the political instability partly fuelled by the migrant crisis which has an ongoing economic impact. £500 million to pay because our European partners can't secure their borders and one of them said all migrants are welcome. Plus of course it won't solve the problem, so much for the value of collective action. The EU exacerbated the problem and has clearly shown it is not up to the task of resolving it. More trouble to follow ..

"will this be the case in the future"? Who knows? If some future elected government chooses to alter the terms of the current deal with the EU then yes it could change but we equally we might end up with better terms as some of the new entrants to the EU become richer and are able to pay more in to the coffers.

As to the migrant crisis: there are two parts to it. One is finding a way of stabilising the region so that people don't need to migrate, and the other is handling those who have already migrated. On the former the UK already played enough of a part[2][3][4] in the destabilisation so (in my opinion), should be doing a lot more to try to fix things. On the latter there is a balance between Germany's position at one end and ours at the other, but as I said in another post to someone else the UK needs more young people to pay for the needs of an aging population.

I thought we were all well aware this is only a theoretical option in reality no government would invoke the article, too many vested interests. (See current referendum debate) It's taken decades just to get this referendum and that was almost by accident. In reality this is our only/last chance to leave.

The Lisbon Treaty only came in to force at the end of 2009 so it hasn't taken that long for us to reach the point at which we're considering triggering it. It's clear that the outcome of the referendum is going to be close so I don't see either side admitting defeat and slinking off to the sidelines (is it just me that gets really annoyed when a 55/45 vote is called a "resounding endorsement of our position" etc?), and if we stay in then I can see UKIP changing their tune to "elect us and we'll leave the EU (no referendum required)". If they do gain a majority then out we go.

The people of Greece might disagree. A government was elected with a mandate of ending austerity and even held a referendum reinforcing this particular point but the EUCB/German finance Ministers insisted they go in the opposite direction or leave the club.

I'm surprised you're defending the "EU is undemocratic" side of the argument, and even more so with this example, but okay. In this specific case Greece elected a government that promised something that could not deliver. Alexis Tsipras inherited a country that was fundamentally broke and being propped up by borrowing from other countries. "Ending austerity" is not a phrase, it means having a government that has significantly higher net income. That money had to come from somewhere and it wasn't coming from Greece. Greece was (and still is) spending far more than it brought in, and with private confidence in Greece in the gutter it turned to the EU for (more) bailout funds.

The funds were given with conditions. You can argue that the conditions were too harsh but if the UK had any skin in the game I'm sure that the tune would be very different (Greece currently owes over €300bn, having already written off over €100bn of debt; if the UK had put money in proportionally to the other major financers it would be about €20bn down with another €30bn waiting to be repaid; would you be happy with that situation?). The conditions clashed with Tsipras' promise of an end to austerity, but that was an issue between what he promised the Greek people and what he could deliver.

And Greece wasn't in this situation because of the Euro. It was in this situation because of terrible financial mismanagement since the turn of the century. People often show the graph that highlights the jump in Greece's bond rates around the time of the financial crisis[5] but this ignores that fact that before it joined the Euro (more accurately before it headed towards joining the Euro) the rates were very high [6]. Joining the Euro gave Greece a chance to sort itself out with historically minimal bond rates and it didn't, and when the crisis came along it was massively unprepared.

Regardless of all this, what happened in your quoted example wasn't anything to do with democracy but the financial mess that Greece put itself in and the conditions under which a massive amount of money was loaned/given to it.

We can vote in a new government to change political direction in the UK, can we vote in a new Council of Ministers or a new European Commission if we don't like the decisions they are making?

Again it depends on what "we" you are talking about. If "we" is "the electorate" then in both cases yes, yes we can (within given term limits that apply to both the UK and EU systems). But no, the people of the UK cannot change the EU's government in the same way that the people of Sussex cannot change the UK's government.

Not caring doesn't make you idiotic or a traitor just perhaps a bit one dimensional in your thinking.

It's one-dimensional to not think that all law-making should happen in a single place, by the same people, regardless of the scope of the law?


[1]http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2012/june/tradoc_149622.jpg
[2]http://edition.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/08/18/us.syria/
[3]https://uk.news.yahoo.com/syria-rebels-aided-british-intelligence-041638306.html
[4]http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-britain-idUKKBN0TK4QO20151203
[5]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6b/Greece_gmnt_bonds.jpg
[6]https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/yields_on_10-year_government_bonds__germany_greece_chartbuilder.png

 

[5ways]

Whats the full financial value of the EU to the UK though? What's the net gain or loss on this 53m ? You're only telling half the story.

It's also nowhere near 53 million.

Mythbusting: Does the EU cost Britain £55m a day?
Many Eurosceptics rage against the UK’s annual £18bn transfer to the EU. Nigel Farage, leader of the pro-Brexit UK Independence party, has claimed that being in the bloc costs Britain £55m a day — which adds up to more than £20bn a year.
But the UK’s net transfer to the EU falls far short of such claims. A rebate secured by Margaret Thatcher in 1984 emphatically reduced the bill from the headline figure. London sent £13bn to Brussels last year. Against that, the UK received £4.5bn from the EU in regional aid and agricultural subsidies, and the private sector received a further £1.4bn direct from the EU budget.
That takes the net cost of membership to about £7bn, less than half a per cent of national income — about £260 a year for each British household.
Another often-quoted figure — the reported £33bn cost of regulation — comes from an impact assessment by Open Europe, a think-tank, of 100 EU rules. But it is based on only one side of the balance sheet. Even though he does not like many of these regulations, Raoul Ruparel, the think-tank’s co-director, says the benefits of the regulations are “much higher” than the costs and “clearly not all of [the costs] would disappear after Brexit”.

https://next.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I
London sent £13bn to Brussels last year. Against that, the UK received £4.5bn from the EU in regional aid and agricultural subsidies, and the private sector received a further £1.4bn direct from the EU budget.
That takes the net cost of membership to about £7bn, less than half a per cent of national income — about £260 a year for each British household.

Let's just for now assume your figures are correct. How nice of the EU to give us back nearly £6bn but tell us how it should be spent. Let's not give it to them in the first place and spend it how we wish to spend it.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Let's just for now assume your figures are correct. How nice of the EU to give us back nearly £6bn but tell us how it should be spent. Let's not give it to them in the first place and spend it how we wish to spend it.

Give me your wages each month, and every so often I might give you some back. I will be using your money each month to pay for my offices, salaries and also bail out the people who haven't paid me.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Give me your wages each month, and every so often I might give you some back. I will be using your money each month to pay for my offices, salaries and also bail out the people who haven't paid me.

You forgot to mention that the bit you do hand back you will tell me what to spend it on.