The ultimate REFERENDUM thread

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why should highly qualified people from outside the EU be treated different?

Where did I say anything about highly qualified people being treated differently? Sorry but I'm not following.

 

[melias shoes]

Boris on now. Edit to Andrew marr you are supposed to interview not give your own opinion. Interupt every point made and not let the question be answered. BBC bias? Of course it is.

 

[melias shoes]

Well we know what side Marr is on don't we. Said this is my show I'll ask the questions but you've got no chance of answering them.

 

[Soulman]

Boris on now. Edit to Andrew marr you are supposed to interview not give your own opinion. Interupt every point made and not let the question be answered. BBC bias? Of course it is.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why should highly qualified people from outside the EU be treated different? It's why the UK needs one border policy for all. Open borders just leads to abuse of the system and absolutely zero control over the quality of people that come in. It's common sense. Everyone knows it and everyone can see it.

I prefer less barriers, more openness, more cooperation and more freedom. You seem to prefer the opposite. We'll never agree.

 

[melias shoes]

I prefer less barriers, more openness, more cooperation and more freedom. You seem to prefer the opposite. We'll never agree.

Yes but that system failed miserably last year. Merkels' everyone welcome failed hands down. Now apparently 130k gone missing in Germany. Whether they've gone underground or moved on to another country they don't know. Great system.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

As there are approximately 3 Million EU citizens living in the UK and approximately 1.3 million Brits living in numerous European countries I think it highly unlikely that any drastic changes will happen effecting these people post Brexit. As usual it will be in all nations self interest to limit disruption and come to a mutually beneficial arrangement. As with the trade argument there are two options; mutually beneficial agreements or vindictive pernicious actions .... if anyone really believes the latter option is likely best we leave anyway.

 

[Soulman]

What a slippery toad.

" Jeremy Corbyn has been accused of "rewriting history" after deleting hundreds of outspoken articles and speeches from his website including a number of pieces critical of the EU.

One of the articles sets out the Labour leader's true feelings on the European Union in a damning attack about the influence the bloc has over the British Government.

Mr Corbyn has wiped his entire archive of writing from his personal blog meaning that none of the articles can be accessed."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...n-articles-and-speeches-from-his-website.html

 

[JC Footy Genius]

What a slippery toad.

" Jeremy Corbyn has been accused of "rewriting history" after deleting hundreds of outspoken articles and speeches from his website including a number of pieces critical of the EU.

One of the articles sets out the Labour leader's true feelings on the European Union in a damning attack about the influence the bloc has over the British Government.

Mr Corbyn has wiped his entire archive of writing from his personal blog meaning that none of the articles can be accessed."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...n-articles-and-speeches-from-his-website.html

Man of principle that Mr Corbyn .. voted against remaining in the EEC, voted against the Maastricht treaty, voted against Lisbon Treaty, voted with the Eurosceptics numerous times on a range of issues and now suddenly pro EU

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As there are approximately 3 Million EU citizens living in the UK and approximately 1.3 million Brits living in numerous European countries I think it highly unlikely that any drastic changes will happen effecting these people post Brexit. As usual it will be in all nations self interest to limit disruption and come to a mutually beneficial arrangement. As with the trade argument there are two options; mutually beneficial agreements or vindictive pernicious actions .... if anyone really believes the latter option is likely best we leave anyway.

1.3 million Brits in EU countries. It's much much higher than that I think. Spain, alone has 1 million British passport holders. France is high as well.

And I'm pretty certain Spain will be acting strongly if Britain does withdraw as they're a real burden on the system. I doubt they'll be slung out but you will probably see health care withdrawn.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Boris Johnson: suspending BCC chief for EU referendum remarks is 'scandalous'
London mayor says John Longworth was ‘immediately crushed by the agents of project fear’ for suggesting the UK might be better off outside the EU

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/06/boris-johnson-scandalous-suspending-bcc-chief-eu-referendum-remarks

“It cannot be right that when someone has the guts to dissent from the establishment line, he or she is immediately crushed by the agents of project fear.” My God, with horror comic rhetoric like this Boris shows that he is an absolute master of the scary and completely misleading story. No organisation can have a boss who drives a tractor through the policy of the organisation he's boss of. If Boris can't see that he hasn't got the intellect he claims.

 

[BadFish]

So have any reputable economists undertaken any projections of what will happen should the UK leave compared to staying? Surely their is something among the scaremongering rhetoric that offers a sensible evaluation of the options.

Serious decisions like this one would be better made without the bullshit spin of politics.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

“It cannot be right that when someone has the guts to dissent from the establishment line, he or she is immediately crushed by the agents of project fear.” My God, with horror comic rhetoric like this Boris shows that he is an absolute master of the scary and completely misleading story. No organisation can have a boss who drives a tractor through the policy of the organisation he's boss of. If Boris can't see that he hasn't got the intellect he claims.

I think it's common knowledge Boris isn't a heavy weight intellect. He's a cheer-leader and this piece just shows this.

 

[Soulman]

So have any reputable economists undertaken any projections of what will happen should the UK leave compared to staying? Surely their is something among the scaremongering rhetoric that offers a sensible evaluation of the options.

Serious decisions like this one would be better made without the bullshit spin of politics.

You could always try researching " reputable economists", just click on google, plenty of different opinions, here is one to get you started. You will find many with an opposite view as well.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ritain-to-fear-leaving-EU-say-economists.html

 

[pastafarian]

If you work for a big company then you most likely won't. But If you work in any job which isn't prepared to, or cannot afford to, assist you with visa paperwork you'll be at an immediate and huge disadvantage e.g. small businesses such as the start-up sector, students working in cafes, interns, touring parties, the arts etc etc? It's the EU freedoms which enable mainly young UK people to do these jobs with utter ease and without restriction. I don't want to deny them this opportunity.

How hard is this disadvantage really?
The notion of work or study visas is not new and millions manage to be able to cope with this system without the sky falling in on our heads.If someones heart from here is set on studying and working in a cafe in Vienna then get the relevant paperwork,no opportunity has been denied to anyone and its a small price to pay for keeping our country and our citizens safer with controlled borders.

At least you dont subscribe to Badfish project fear notion that the only options available to individuals is obtain citizenship or leave and at least you know the system would involve visas should there be a brexit.....small mercies !

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How hard is this disadvantage really?

In Berlin I am surrounded by people all carving a way through study, part time jobs, start-ups, small business, music, the arts etc etc. They can do this because of the freedoms the EU affords them. And I know from personal experience how easy it was for me to move my freelance work from the UK to Germany and to live here. It really was no more different or difficult than when I moved to Brighton from London (I'm Brighton born before anyone starts on a DFL trip).

I also know an American girl and how it is for her to study here, continually renew her visa, the restrictions placed upon her for EU travel and work and also those of her American husband. I also know how ridiculously difficult it was for her to transfer some funds to the country; it was utterly bizarre the hoops she had to jump through to move a sizeable amount of cash out of the US. Again, I can contrast this with myself.....for me it's no different to transferring cash to a friend. I'd like to point out this American was sought out by the university; they wanted her, she had the university on her side, the uni is well versed in visas and stuff, but it is still a ball-ache for her and them. I struggle to see how or why a small business or start up will even bother to undertake the red-tape and visa paper work for their positions when they can simply say "when can you start?" to a EU passport holder. And you don't come across lots of Americans in the burgeoning start up scene for the reasons I give.

And I appreciate your comments about project fear; I hope you don't see this particular post as fear either. I know the EU can improve in many ways. But I have certain things which I feel strongly about, opportunity is one of them, and I really do believe that UK people will be disadvantaged from their EU brothers and sisters the minute things change. I don't want to deny them the opportunities we all take for granted. And while the kids are getting on with interesting shit around the continent the UK can sit at the big table and improve the EU.

 

[Soulman]

I know, you repeatedly tell me this

The Scottish referendum.

Why is there concern for overseas citizens voting in an EU referendum when, at home, 800,000 people born and bred in Scotland did not have a vote, though resident in the United Kingdom, in something that affected Scotland and the
United Kingdom?

To avoid a controversial and likely drawn-out process of determining qualifying degrees of “Scottishness”, it was expedient for the SNP and the Government to limit the franchise to the Local Electoral Register, which meant that all resident EU national citizens could vote in it but not Scots non-resident in Scotland.

 

[Soulman]

Presumably though if you leave the EU then HT and his ilk (unpatriotic, Johnny Leave earlys) will either have to return to their country of origin or take up citizenship in their adopted countries? If this is the case then they should certainly have a vote as the action will arguably affect them more than some angry bloke who is worried about foreigners running amok in Sompting. (last bit is a joke SM don't go menstrual and ignored the main thrust of the post).

Furthermore BF, this seems to be the case where you live in Oz.

", the case of Australia which has compulsory voting, except for Australians who live abroad, is instructive. If the latter desire to continue to vote they must apply for overseas elector status within three years of their departure, otherwise they LOSE their right to vote. Therefore, an option for the British government to consider for the “Votes for Life” Bill might be to put the onus on the British citizen overseas to choose to register to vote or not, by applying for “overseas voting status” within a defined period of years.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The Scottish referendum.

Why is there concern for overseas citizens voting in an EU referendum when, at home, 800,000 people born and bred in Scotland did not have a vote, though resident in the United Kingdom, in something that affected Scotland and the
United Kingdom?

To avoid a controversial and likely drawn-out process of determining qualifying degrees of “Scottishness”, it was expedient for the SNP and the Government to limit the franchise to the Local Electoral Register, which meant that all resident EU national citizens could vote in it but not Scots non-resident in Scotland.

You've answered your own question rather neatly.

 

[Soulman]

You've answered your own question rather neatly.

"not Scots non-resident in Scotland." Which should apply to "Not English/Scots (British) non resident in UK" imo.