I read the most ridiculous thing in there today in the article about water boarding, a guy said that the british intelligence dont approve of water boarding, yet still acted on the information given to them (regarding heathrow and canary wharf) after the terrorist was given this treatment, which is quite hypocritical. what a stupid way to look at it, it doesnt matter how the information was taken, if the americans tell british intelligence, that heathrow and canary wharf are going to be targets, OF COURSE they have to act on it, did the guy expect them to say no, were not going to look into that possible terrorist attack because we dont like the way you extracted the information. What a tit.
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The Sun is disgusting
- Thread starter Biscuit
- Start date
....and if that also involves torturing innocent people, is that justified too? Why not extend it to bombing whole villages if you know that there MAY be Al-Qa'Eda operatives amongst them, is that justified too?
Brightonfan1983
Well-known member
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
That's fair enough and I don't disagree with the principal, but how do you apply it to a conflict in an area of the world where people are routinely tortured by the group that you're fighting against, and by that I mean stoned to death, mutilated and disfigured for crimes like listening to music or being a rape victim.
Torture is a very loose description. Waterboarding isn't even in the same league as something like giving lashes, stoning or disfigurement - things that legally happen in many arab countries and are things the taliban used to do all the time.
It's a bit like you and I having a boxing match, but I'm not allowed to punch because it's illegal in Haywards Heath, but punching, kicking and headbutting is the norm in Firle so that's what you're doing - who do you think is going to win?
*edit* I'm not trying to pretend I have the answers, just that's it's a complicated world and this isn't as black and white as some people are making out.
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Brightonfan1983
Well-known member
Could be. It's all ifs and buts. And pretty poor show if we're reduced to torturing somebody we think may or may not know anything about anything.
brighton bluenose
Well-known member
Errrrrr..........but thats EXACTLY what we do do! No wonder many in the Muslim world hate us ffs!!
daveinprague
New member
However, I can imagine the the uproar that would occur if there was film footage of British soldiers recieving the same treatment.
Why people are discussing stonings etc is beyond me as its pretty irrelavent.
We are not the Taliban. We are supposed to be better than that, which I thought was the whole point in being there at the moment.
Why people are discussing stonings etc is beyond me as its pretty irrelavent.
We are not the Taliban. We are supposed to be better than that, which I thought was the whole point in being there at the moment.
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[yt]4LPubUCJv58[/yt]
But waterboarding does drown you, you just aren't submerged in water. Uninterrupted waterboarding leads to death, amongst other things (ie brain damage).
Can't believe some of the responses on here, some of you wouldn't have been out of place in the Gestapo. Inflicting pain in any custodial situation is wrong, whether it's playing white noise to terrorist suspects (note 'suspects') or police beating up black men in the cells. It can never be justified, and once you start where do you stop? Some might say 'well if it stops a terrorist atrocity fair enough' whereas others might say 'well if it gets one drug dealer off the streets then fair enough'.
Leaving aside the fact you may be 'interrogating' an innocent man how can you trust the information you receive? Your suspect might have been deliberately primed with false information which he was told was true and was told not to reveal under any circumstances. His eventual 'cracking' would be real as he would think he was betraying his cause whereas in fact he was helping it.
The ends can NEVER justify the means. Ever. Ultimately it's what separates 'us' the decent human beings from 'them' the stop-at-nothing brigade. Lock them up if you must but don't stoop to their level.
Leaving aside the fact you may be 'interrogating' an innocent man how can you trust the information you receive? Your suspect might have been deliberately primed with false information which he was told was true and was told not to reveal under any circumstances. His eventual 'cracking' would be real as he would think he was betraying his cause whereas in fact he was helping it.
The ends can NEVER justify the means. Ever. Ultimately it's what separates 'us' the decent human beings from 'them' the stop-at-nothing brigade. Lock them up if you must but don't stoop to their level.
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Banned
And what do you reckon Al-Qeada would do to captured British military personnel?
I don't know either, but I'd guess it involves a lot more then pouring water over their head.
I don't know either, but I'd guess it involves a lot more then pouring water over their head.
daveinprague
New member
If we behave the same as Al Qaeda, whats the point of the 'war' exactly?
Exactly. We might as well start blowing Arab passenger planes out of the air .... that'll teach them !
Curious Orange
Punxsatawney Phil
My attitude is that we should take the moral high ground. Just because those who would seek to destroy us don't hesitate to do inhuman things, it does not mean that we should stoop to their level.
Exactly. We might as well start blowing Arab passenger planes out of the air .... that'll teach them !
Erm, the US tried that years ago.
- Thread starter
- #57
What's a libel mong?
If you don't like the debate, get out of the thread. I think it's quite interesting.Give me a few reasons why you think it's justified, go on. I dare you...
Tesco in Disguise
Where do we go from here?
"anyone who sacrifices liberty for extra security deserves to lose both" - benjamin franklin
Tesco in Disguise
Where do we go from here?
well put. i'd also like more scrutiny on WHY someone needs to be tortured for infomration in the first place, what is driving people to behave in a way that threatens the security of the state.
daveinprague
New member
We kill people 'suspected terrorists'...ie..who knows if they are or not, but hey we cant take a chance...daily in Afghanistan and Pakistan in drone attacks, but lose our minds when British or American soldiers are hurt or killed in retaliation to the occupation of their country, and because of this, people are prepared to condone torture.
Pretty weird really. I imagine the people who condone it actually believe..they dont feel pain like we do.
Pretty weird really. I imagine the people who condone it actually believe..they dont feel pain like we do.