The Second Investec Ashes Test, England v Australia, Lords

[big nuts]

the most demoralising thing for them is to be 0-2 down and have had to follow on.

this sounds like in football : dont score when you have an open goal, keep the ball and demoralise them, then make sure our guy on 2 goals has a chance for a hat trick.

but the pitch seems to be the reason so i get it.

after all this debate, we will probably skittle them in 1 hour for 30 runs.

This is a slower and far more painful death in my opinion. Plus this innings has given birth to a new star of English cricket in Joe Root. If we had of enforced the follow on he would never of got the chance.

 

[Brovion]

I ask this as a bit of a cricket novice - why the HELL are we still batting?

They aren't going to chase this down in 2 days, and we're surely only lessening the time we have to bowl them out? Am I missing something?

Because the more we bat the worse the pitch gets. And whilst there is an outside chance of Australia batting for two days to save the game it's better that we draw as opposed to lose. Declaring this afternoon would have given them some good use of what is still a decent wicket.

Plus it's partly psychological. Grind them down a bit, especially now with the two youngest and most inexperienced players scoring for fun. That was worth the last hour alone. And as someone who has spent FAR too many years watching Australia lord it over us I was delighted to see the boot on the other foot. I will NEVER get bored with watching Australia struggle at cricket.

However it's not an exact science and from a result perspective I'm not going to totally decry those who've said "should have declared and had a few overs tonight", or "should have enforced the follow-on"

 

[dougdeep]

But if we'd put them back in we'd have won by now.

 

[Sam-]

It's not about humiliating them. It's about winning. Could of asked them to follow on, they may have got their act together and then our bowlers would have got tired. Then England are chasing on a deteriorating wicket.
In this instance Australia have to toil in the field while the pitch gets worse and England get further ahead.

 

[big nuts]

But if we'd put them back in we'd have won by now.

Or they could be seventy ahead with six wickets remaining. With the weather set fair for five days it was always the best option to completely demoralise by batting them out of the game. Your right we may have won already, but I'm having much more fun subjecting them to this torturous death.

 

[hybrid_x]

test match.......such a genius, deep, complex, tactical, and compelling game love it.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

very strange we did not put them in bat for a few overs tonight......anyone got a good reason for this?

There's 2 whole days left.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Having carefully studied all the statistics concerning the fors and againsts over KP I have come down to the fact that he is a annoying, selfish, wanky knob of a South African and so I wouldn't lose a minutes sleep if he ****ed off back to Natal.

You can keep him, thanks.

 

[vegster]

Maybe not childish but your argument to drop one of England's finest batsman of the past fifty years, for a player with limited experience and a patchy record is quite frankly ludicrous.

For every negative you list in your post about Pietersen's dismissals I can give you at least 10 positives. Ask any person with a good understanding of cricket should England drop Pietersen and they would laugh in your face. It's not even as though we a load of quality batsman knocking on the door, our reserves of bowlers is fantastic but not our batsman. Morgan, Bopara, Carberry, Compton, Shah & Taylor have all had a taste of test cricket and haven't convinced for one reason or another.

I think that it is childish and ludicrous to hero worship a player who is often unable to tailor an innings to the needs of the team. No one in the team should think they are an automatic selection except the captain.
Why should KP be allowed more failures than other players and what ratio of failure/centuries can he be allowed compared to others ? Perpetual blind worship of anyone in a team game is ludicrous and childish.

 

[Billy the Fish]

There are two whole days left to bowl them out, that is more than enough.

Today was all about turning a psychological screw, to make them lose any belief they can bowl us out for the rest of the series.

Too many people on this thread trying to apply football logic. This isn't football.

 

[spring hall convert]

I think that it is childish and ludicrous to hero worship a player who is often unable to tailor an innings to the needs of the team. No one in the team should think they are an automatic selection except the captain.
Why should KP be allowed more failures than other players and what ratio of failure/centuries can he be allowed compared to others ? Perpetual blind worship of anyone in a team game is ludicrous and childish.

I don't think anyone is hero worshipping him and even his biggest advocates acknowledge he has faults but it is plainly ludicrous to suggest that Nick Compton should replace him in the team.

You're talking complete rubbish. I can understand that he's not your cup of team personally but he's proved his worth to this England side time and time again. I'd imagine his man of the match ratio is better than most of his colleagues.

 

[vegster]

It is when they are clearly a better player than the person you advocate bringing in both statistically and anecdotally. Compton's a flat track bully at Somerset, he was pretty lucky to get another go after a decidedly average tour of India. The New Zealand "attack" he scored two centuries against is one of the more friendly in world cricket.

Pietersen has made runs consistently against the best sides in the world. Yes, he can frustrate at times but he's scored over 7,000 runs at a smidgen under 50.

He also, as my post attempted to illustrate, is capable of playing innings that no other England batman I've seen could ever play. That one against South Africa last year was ludicrously good.

It was a long time ago in this thread that I said I thought Compton should still be opening. I did not suggest dropping KP for Compton as that, to coin the favourite buzzwords of the day, would be childish and ludicrous. My suggestion, and I'm really hoping this is clear enough, was
to reinstate Compton to opener, drop Root back to 5 where he is more comfortable. Bairstow drops out but offers middle order cover for injuries. Compton can bat long innings to hold up and end, blunt a bowling attack and give the later order batsmen ( KP included) the chance to take apart the bowling attack.

Root had looked shaky up til today and has now probably got the opening berth for the rest of the season however, I won't be expecting another innings like this in the series.

 

[spring hall convert]

It was a long time ago in this thread that I said I thought Compton should still be opening. I did not suggest dropping KP for Compton as that, to coin the favourite buzzwords of the day, would be childish and ludicrous. My suggestion, and I'm really hoping this is clear enough, was
to reinstate Compton to opener, drop Root back to 5 where he is more comfortable. Bairstow drops out but offers middle order cover for injuries. Compton can bat long innings to hold up and end, blunt a bowling attack and give the later order batsmen ( KP included) the chance to take apart the bowling attack.

Root had looked shaky up til today and has now probably got the opening berth for the rest of the season however, I won't be expecting another innings like this in the series.

I do think Compton at present is a better player than Bairstow. I actually think Bairstow has a serious technical deficiency that Gooch & Thorpe are going to have to sort out. However, he's younger & suits the balance of the team better, as things stand I think England have enough grinders. It's very rare that one of Root, Cook, Trott or Bell doesn't cash in.

Respectfully I think you are wrong about Root, from what I can see he looks like one of the most exciting prospects in world cricket.

 

[dougdeep]

No close of play score? These threads are getting worse. Hrumph!

 

[banjo]

No close of play score? These threads are getting worse. Hrumph!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/87720

 

[Leekbrookgull]

But if we'd put them back in we'd have won by now.

Cook,WAS NEVER ALLOWED TO ENFORCE the follow-on. Get real,to much money at stake. This game COULD have been over by now,but then two full days refunds of a sold-out test match is a costly,no no

 

[Leekbrookgull]

There are two whole days left to bowl them out, that is more than enough.

Today was all about turning a psychological screw, to make them lose any belief they can bowl us out for the rest of the series.

Too many people on this thread trying to apply football logic. This isn't football.

Today was all about about the ECB not having to give refunds !!!!

 

[big nuts]

It was a long time ago in this thread that I said I thought Compton should still be opening. I did not suggest dropping KP for Compton as that, to coin the favourite buzzwords of the day, would be childish and ludicrous. My suggestion, and I'm really hoping this is clear enough, was
to reinstate Compton to opener, drop Root back to 5 where he is more comfortable. Bairstow drops out but offers middle order cover for injuries. Compton can bat long innings to hold up and end, blunt a bowling attack and give the later order batsmen ( KP included) the chance to take apart the bowling attack.

Root had looked shaky up til today and has now probably got the opening berth for the rest of the season however, I won't be expecting another innings like this in the series.

Go back to your original post. You wanted to drop KP not Bairstow.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Just amazing.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Put them back in. Be proactive. They'll leave a tiny target if any at all.

Cook can't do that Lords is full for Sunday/Monday. Do you really think the ECB are into refunds ??