The Second Investec Ashes Test, England v Australia, Lords

[fleet]

We need over 200 to be safe - another 170 should be doable now that they can settle over night. If nothing else we should get some time at the crease so that the pitch is worse for their second innings. Easily winnable for them if we get rolled over tomorrow - still a good batting pitch.

 

[Vegas Seagull]

3 days to go but it's already all over, these Aussies are melting faster than a Mr Whippy 99

 

[Bold Seagull]

England have NEVER enforced the follow on and lost in their entire test history. It happens 1% of the time - 3 times in history and each time Australia have lost.

Have England ever lost when having the choice to follow on, but choosing not to?

 

[Finchley Seagull]

We need over 200 to be safe - another 170 should be doable now that they can settle over night. If nothing else we should get some time at the crease so that the pitch is worse for their second innings. Easily winnable for them if we get rolled over tomorrow - still a good batting pitch.

I agree that 200 should be more than enough. In an absolute ideal world, we would bat until the last hour and get a 500 run lead and then have 2 whole days (and an hour tonight) to bowl them out.

 

[vegster]

England seriously need to rethink their obsession with KP. Getting an England tattoo is not enough to prove your loyalty to a team, you should get your head down and bat for the team. Compton has been sacrificed and Root pushed up to open too soon in his career to the detriment of the team.

Drop KP, reinstate Compton as opener and put Root at 4, problem solved.

 

[big nuts]

England seriously need to rethink their obsession with KP. Getting an England tattoo is not enough to prove your loyalty to a team, you should get your head down and bat for the team. Compton has been sacrificed and Root pushed up to open too soon in his career to the detriment of the team.

Drop KP, reinstate Compton as opener and put Root at 4, problem solved.

Tremendous idea drop KP averaging 48 with the bat and replace him with someone far less experienced who averages 30 in test cricket and is struggling to get the ball of the square with Somerset currently.

At this present time cook, trott, bell and pieterson are world class batsman with great records. We are lucky to have them and its their consistency that makes it easier for the likes of root and bairstow to flourish.

 

[Beach Hut]

KP has been disappointing with the bat so far but I am sure we will see a belter of an innings soon

 

[vegster]

Tremendous idea drop KP averaging 48 with the bat and replace him with someone far less experienced who averages 30 in test cricket and is struggling to get the ball of the square with Somerset currently.

At this present time cook, trott, bell and pieterson are world class batsman with great records. We are lucky to have them and its their consistency that makes it easier for the likes of root and bairstow to flourish.

Comptons current average for LV 1 42.55

Playing for Somerset against Australia he made 81 and 34. After being asked by the ECB to play Compton in the Worcester team to play Australia he made 79 and 26. This gives an average of 55 against the Aussies. He may not be a superstar but he has Test 100's under his belt and deserves the chance to bed in as an opener.
I just get fed up with all the KP hype ending with yet another single figure score. For once he batted well in the 2nd innings at Trent Bridge but once again chased a wide one and dragged on when a decent knock was there for the taking.
And, as for "The Present Time ", can't you see that Cook and Trott are short of runs this series and you could hardly describe Root and Bairstow as "flourishing " ?

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Comptons current average for LV 1 42.55

Playing for Somerset against Australia he made 81 and 34. After being asked by the ECB to play Compton in the Worcester team to play Australia he made 79 and 26. This gives an average of 55 against the Aussies. He may not be a superstar but he has Test 100's under his belt and deserves the chance to bed in as an opener.
I just get fed up with all the KP hype ending with yet another single figure score. For once he batted well in the 2nd innings at Trent Bridge but once again chased a wide one and dragged on when a decent knock was there for the taking.
And, as for "The Present Time ", can't you see that Cook and Trott are short of runs this series and you could hardly describe Root and Bairstow as "flourishing " ?

We're not doing too badly though, are we? One up in the series and in with a very good chance of going two up. Can't drop KP for Compton. The Aussies would be all over him, in my opinion. It would be great if Root can get a decent score today though.

 

[big nuts]

Comptons current average for LV 1 42.55

Playing for Somerset against Australia he made 81 and 34. After being asked by the ECB to play Compton in the Worcester team to play Australia he made 79 and 26. This gives an average of 55 against the Aussies. He may not be a superstar but he has Test 100's under his belt and deserves the chance to bed in as an opener.
I just get fed up with all the KP hype ending with yet another single figure score. For once he batted well in the 2nd innings at Trent Bridge but once again chased a wide one and dragged on when a decent knock was there for the taking.
And, as for "The Present Time ", can't you see that Cook and Trott are short of runs this series and you could hardly describe Root and Bairstow as "flourishing " ?

overall Kevin Pietersen 2005-2013 96 Tests 7584 Runs 227 Avr 48.30 22 hundreds

He also averages 49 against Australia and 45 against the best side in the World in South Africa, I struggle to see how any sensible person can seriously consider droping Pietersen for Compton. If that were to happen you would have 3 batsman in the top six with under ten test caps each, hardly the recipe for success. Based on track record KP is more likely to outscore Compton if he was brought into the team.

As I mentioned before KP, Cook, Trott & Bell are the batsman we build the team around, which means there are two positions open for youngsters to come through as we should also have one eye on the future. I would personally be looking at younger players than Compton e.g. James Taylor.

 

[big nuts]

Comptons current average for LV 1 42.55 - KP outscores him even when you compare first class to test.

Playing for Somerset against Australia he made 81 and 34. After being asked by the ECB to play Compton in the Worcester team to play Australia he made 79 and 26. This gives an average of 55 against the Aussies. He may not be a superstar but he has Test 100's under his belt and deserves the chance to bed in as an opener.
I just get fed up with all the KP hype ending with yet another single figure score. For once he batted well in the 2nd innings at Trent Bridge but once again chased a wide one and dragged on when a decent knock was there for the taking.
And, as for "The Present Time ", can't you see that Cook and Trott are short of runs this series (Trott isn't short of runs and Cook has been Mr consistency since 2011)and you could hardly describe Root and Bairstow as "flourishing " ? Maybe not but it's far easier for an English youngster to come into a settled winning side learning from four batsman who must have 350 test caps than the current Australia side who other than Clarke have mediocre test records

I've tried to argue the points above.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Historically, the best sides have drip-fed roookies into the team one or two at a time. To have Root, Bairstow AND Compton in the order unbalances the batting and makes us vulnerable.

I don't think it's a coincidence Bell has bagged 2 tons at 5 with the return of Pietersen at 4, I think he lifts the side regardless of his personal short- term form. KP will make a big contribution soon enough.

 

[vegster]

overall Kevin Pietersen 2005-2013 96 Tests 7584 Runs 227 Avr 48.30 22 hundreds

He also averages 49 against Australia and 45 against the best side in the World in South Africa, I struggle to see how any sensible person can seriously consider droping Pietersen for Compton. If that were to happen you would have 3 batsman in the top six with under ten test caps each, hardly the recipe for success. Based on track record KP is more likely to outscore Compton if he was brought into the team.

As I mentioned before KP, Cook, Trott & Bell are the batsman we build the team around, which means there are two positions open for youngsters to come through as we should also have one eye on the future. I would personally be looking at younger players than Compton e.g. James Taylor.

KP might well outscore Compton if Compton is allowed to open and wear down the bowling attack for the swashbuckler-in-chief to wield terror among the knackered Aussie bowlers. Root is out of his depth as an opener and this means KP comes in too soon and tries to flash the bat too soon. KP had one great score after coming back from a longish lay off and needs time in the middle, he was rushed back in too soon. He will probably get a big score sooner or later but I can see it being The Oval Test by which time we will have the series in the bag 3-0 despite him rather than because of him.

Yes his overall average is good but currently his 4 innings against Australia are 14,64,2 and 5 ..... if that was Compton's batting you would be calling for him to be dropped. Besides, it's the manner of his dismissals that is the worst aspect, if he had some dodgy decisions fair enough but most of the time he gets himself out.

 

[big nuts]

KP might well outscore Compton if Compton is allowed to open and wear down the bowling attack for the swashbuckler-in-chief to wield terror among the knackered Aussie bowlers. Root is out of his depth as an opener and this means KP comes in too soon and tries to flash the bat too soon. KP had one great score after coming back from a longish lay off and needs time in the middle, he was rushed back in too soon. He will probably get a big score sooner or later but I can see it being The Oval Test by which time we will have the series in the bag 3-0 despite him rather than because of him.

Yes his overall average is good but currently his 4 innings against Australia are 14,64,2 and 5 ..... if that was Compton's batting you would be calling for him to be dropped. Besides, it's the manner of his dismissals that is the worst aspect, if he had some dodgy decisions fair enough but most of the time he gets himself out.

You seem too quick to jump to conclusions, firstly Root has only had three innings as test opener and I'm pretty sure his first class record as opener is at least as good if not better than Compton in terms of averages. Also bare in mind Compton ply's his trade at Taunton renowned until very recently as a batsman's paradise.

You then mention KP's last 4 scores which yes aren't great but if you dropped a batsman after a run of four poor innings, not one batsman in the history of the game would ever reach 100 caps. Players go in and out of form but you know KP at one stage will deliver at least once and make a match or series winning contribution.

 

[vegster]

You seem too quick to jump to conclusions, firstly Root has only had three innings as test opener and I'm pretty sure his first class record as opener is at least as good if not better than Compton in terms of averages. Also bare in mind Compton ply's his trade at Taunton renowned until very recently as a batsman's paradise.

You then mention KP's last 4 scores which yes aren't great but if you dropped a batsman after a run of four poor innings, not one batsman in the history of the game would ever reach 100 caps. Players go in and out of form but you know KP at one stage will deliver at least once and make a match or series winning contribution.

Now you have confused me ? you seem to be saying that Compton is not good enough to open because he has had a few bad scores despite scoring Test 100's ? yet it's better to put a youngster, with no experience of opening, in to that position at the start of the most important cricket series in English Test Cricket ? So Compton gets a few bad scores against the Kiwi's is dropped but Root gets a few bad scores and is persevered with ? So KP is fireproof if he messes up, but Compton isn't ?
As an aside, KP ply's his trade mostly on good batting wickets quite often designed to last most of the five moneymaking days of Tests, failing that, he's often on the batting paradise of The Oval.

 

[big nuts]

Now you have confused me ? you seem to be saying that Compton is not good enough to open because he has had a few bad scores despite scoring Test 100's ? yet it's better to put a youngster, with no experience of opening, in to that position at the start of the most important cricket series in English Test Cricket ? So Compton gets a few bad scores against the Kiwi's is dropped but Root gets a few bad scores and is persevered with ? So KP is fireproof if he messes up, but Compton isn't ?
As an aside, KP ply's his trade mostly on good batting wickets quite often designed to last most of the five moneymaking days of Tests, failing that, he's often on the batting paradise of The Oval.

But we are talking about the present, Compton has already been dropped so I haven't given a view as to whether he was disregarded too quickly. For what it's worth I would have definitely kept Root in the side so it boiled down to Bairstow (I actually prefer James Taylor) or Compton for me. Personally we need to keep one eye on the future and start bringing in a few younger batsman so I would have dropped Compton although there is an argument to suggest his been harshly treated.

You may argue one rule for one but the difference being is KP is an experienced test batsman with a terrific track record and someone who delivers thats why his worth persevering with.

 

[vegster]

But we are talking about the present, Compton has already been dropped so I haven't given a view as to whether he was disregarded too quickly. For what it's worth I would have definitely kept Root in the side so it boiled down to Bairstow (I actually prefer James Taylor) or Compton for me. Personally we need to keep one eye on the future and start bringing in a few younger batsman so I would have dropped Compton although there is an argument to suggest his been harshly treated.

You may argue one rule for one but the difference being is KP is an experienced test batsman with a terrific ( up and down) track record and someone who delivers (occasionally) thats why his worth persevering with.

Adjusted for you.

Also, are you South African too ?

 

[big nuts]

Adjusted for you.

Also, are you South African too ?

Sorry to keep quoting stats as they don't always tell the true story, however I couldn't resist this one and I think this shows how reliable Pietersen actually is.

Tests Runs HS AVR 100's
year 2005 8 674 158 44.93 2
year 2006 14 1343 158 53.72 4
year 2007 11 1007 226 50.35 4
year 2008 12 1015 152 50.75 5
year 2009 11 760 102 47.50 1
year 2010 14 831 227 41.55 1
year 2011 8 731 202* 73.10 2
year 2012 14 1053 186 43.87

Not one year averaging below 40 which is quite phenomenal. PS I'm not South African

 

[vegster]

Sorry to keep quoting stats as they don't always tell the true story, however I couldn't resist this one and I think this shows how reliable Pietersen actually is.

Tests Runs HS AVR 100's
year 2005 8 674 158 44.93 2
year 2006 14 1343 158 53.72 4
year 2007 11 1007 226 50.35 4
year 2008 12 1015 152 50.75 5
year 2009 11 760 102 47.50 1
year 2010 14 831 227 41.55 1
year 2011 8 731 202* 73.10 2
year 2012 14 1053 186 43.87

Not one year averaging below 40 which is quite phenomenal. PS I'm not South African

I await the 2013 stats with interest.

 

[knocky1]

I await the 2013 stats with interest.

The KP batting average will again be 40+. Not worth waiting for really. He is averaging 21 now and only needs to have one decent knock to get the average up. What will be worth waiting for is the day he gets hold of the Aussies.