But we WILL be masters of our own destiny if we get off the ship. They can have as many or as few hands on the wheel of their ship as they wish. Meanwhile we will be in control of our own ship and sail it how we wish with rules set by elected British politicians.
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*** The official Keep Britain in the EU thread ***
- Thread starter Herr Tubthumper
- Start date
But we WILL be masters of our own destiny if we get off the ship. They can have as many or as few hands on the wheel of their ship as they wish. Meanwhile we will be in control of our own ship and sail it how we wish with rules set by elected British politicians.
Loved this comment found under a media article about the European Union
'Dear Empress Merkel, most Excellent Highness of all she surveys ...
You may need us, but we do not need you, especially when:
A) You cost us TWENTY MILLION QUID every single day of the year.
B) You unilaterally invited MILLIONS of uneducated Muslim young men into Germany (and therefore into all EU member countries).
C) You are complicit in a totally UNMANDATED plot to force a federal state on Europe which NO SINGLE CITIZEN of the EU has EVER, ANYWHERE, ANY TIME voted for.
D) The whole edifice is riddled with waste, inefficiency and corruption, not least in supporting a self-confessed liar and a fraud to be President of the whole shoddy edifice. (numerous names there)
I hope that is clear. In any case, you can ZUM TEUFEL gehen.'
Made me chuckle.
'Dear Empress Merkel, most Excellent Highness of all she surveys ...
You may need us, but we do not need you, especially when:
A) You cost us TWENTY MILLION QUID every single day of the year.
B) You unilaterally invited MILLIONS of uneducated Muslim young men into Germany (and therefore into all EU member countries).
C) You are complicit in a totally UNMANDATED plot to force a federal state on Europe which NO SINGLE CITIZEN of the EU has EVER, ANYWHERE, ANY TIME voted for.
D) The whole edifice is riddled with waste, inefficiency and corruption, not least in supporting a self-confessed liar and a fraud to be President of the whole shoddy edifice. (numerous names there)
I hope that is clear. In any case, you can ZUM TEUFEL gehen.'
Made me chuckle.
The Merry Prankster
Pactum serva
Out. The treatment of Greece showed the EU's true colours.
Succinctly put given that the ammo for extending the argument is vast.
Seagull on the wing
New member
I bow down to you Sir Albion....great post..to you and people like Soulman who have the sense to see that the EU ARE TAKING THE P**S out of the UK...they thrive on our payments and our compliance with the laws they laid down....sorry if this upsets the IN brigade...but after 12 years serving in the RN and having been born before WW2 my belief is...and I make no apologies for this...My country first...We can survive without Germany/France....and my grandfather and father gave their lives for them...yes ,I'm an oldie which views do
not count with the EURO LOVE IN
But I'm still here and my view is still here. Little Englander ? Yes...and proud to be one.
That does'nt mean everything is wrong about the EU but it is an unbalanced scale in favour of the EU....NOT what the EU preaches about that all countries being equal....I will alays vote against anything that puts the UK at the end of the list...if my land of birth is doing well then I will will be doing well.
He had no chance of getting any of his demands accepted. Time to get out, actually it is long overdue.
Seagull on the wing
New member
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
We are sailing merrily towards Out. It is a pity but we all know that Cameron has backed the wrong dog in this fight. We also know that Germany ( for therein lies the whole EU) will do pretty much ANYTHING to keep rhe second or third largest economy, depending which measure you your use, within the EU because, simply, they need us for credibility and stability He is likely to achieve an apparent "victory" on benefits during the negotiations but it will be watered down to homeopathic levels when studied in depth.
Look at what the EU has done to keep Greece in the EU. Does anyone not believe that they would do ANYTHING to retain that economic basket case but just let the UK sneak out?
let us vote OUT, or get damned close to it. Then, and only then will we get 100% of what we want. Whilst Daves hand is on display as being desperate to stay in we have no chance whatsoever of being listened to. Merkel is far too cute to let us go without a serious fight.
Look at what the EU has done to keep Greece in the EU. Does anyone not believe that they would do ANYTHING to retain that economic basket case but just let the UK sneak out?
let us vote OUT, or get damned close to it. Then, and only then will we get 100% of what we want. Whilst Daves hand is on display as being desperate to stay in we have no chance whatsoever of being listened to. Merkel is far too cute to let us go without a serious fight.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,284
OUT - And not because we will lose x amount in trade or jobs....thats just horse shit scare mongering from vested interests. If Britain votes OUT (and i hope they do) the Germans will still want to sell their cars, the French their wine. A trade tariff deal akin to Norway or Switzerland will be done in days.
Immigration? Thats also a major problem when you have zero control on inbound numbers from the EU and its effect on public services, housing, jobs. But that still isn't the reason to vote OUT
Anti Democratic? That it certainly is, as much as I despised Ed Milliband and now that complete tool Corbyn, I can still accept either of those men, being British, having a mandate from the British people and putting forth their vision of Britains future. What is hard to accept is European laws and regulations supercedeing national laws and having our sovereignty eroded by unelected Beurocrats. But that is not the reason for coming OUT
National Sovereignty - Many men fought and died to protect these shores and now all they fought and died for is effectively being slowly given away. Germany twice tried militarily to gain full control of Europe and whilst Germany today is different, the Irony is that they, as the dominant force and chief rule setters, are in fact going to achieve by subtler means what they have failed at twice before. But still that is not the reason for wanting OUT
The reason that we simply must come OUT is because of the destination of the European project. It is a fallacy to think we can stay as we are with what the EU currently is and argue for or against that position. The EU is a runaway train whose every step is taken towards ever closer union and whose destination is nothing less than a complete 100% United States of Europe, with a european flag, parliament, currency, military, president and politicians. The end of national sovereign states, national laws, national currencies, national identities. It wont happen overnight but that's the destination on the front of the train. You think its about jobs or immigration, think again. Its about becoming no more or no less than a small state in a Federal United states of Europe with a european Goverment and european laws, the end of parliamentary democracy and sovereignty in this country. If youre comfortable of supporting of this, vote IN by all means, but if that makes you shudder then consider that when you hear the bullshit about how it will affect trade, jobs or how the real issue is about immigration.
You get on a bus with no stops whose destination says manchester, you'd better be sure you actually want to go to manchester. Because thats where youre going once the door closes whether you like it or not.
We are a small but mighty nation, we have brought so much to the world including the beloved game. We are creative, tolerant, industrious. We will survive with or without the EU.
Do we really want ever closer union to eventually exchange our sovereignty and ability to govern ourselves in order to become a small part of a European federal superstate lead by Germany and governed by Brussels?
That is the only choice - IN or OUT
Immigration? Thats also a major problem when you have zero control on inbound numbers from the EU and its effect on public services, housing, jobs. But that still isn't the reason to vote OUT
Anti Democratic? That it certainly is, as much as I despised Ed Milliband and now that complete tool Corbyn, I can still accept either of those men, being British, having a mandate from the British people and putting forth their vision of Britains future. What is hard to accept is European laws and regulations supercedeing national laws and having our sovereignty eroded by unelected Beurocrats. But that is not the reason for coming OUT
National Sovereignty - Many men fought and died to protect these shores and now all they fought and died for is effectively being slowly given away. Germany twice tried militarily to gain full control of Europe and whilst Germany today is different, the Irony is that they, as the dominant force and chief rule setters, are in fact going to achieve by subtler means what they have failed at twice before. But still that is not the reason for wanting OUT
The reason that we simply must come OUT is because of the destination of the European project. It is a fallacy to think we can stay as we are with what the EU currently is and argue for or against that position. The EU is a runaway train whose every step is taken towards ever closer union and whose destination is nothing less than a complete 100% United States of Europe, with a european flag, parliament, currency, military, president and politicians. The end of national sovereign states, national laws, national currencies, national identities. It wont happen overnight but that's the destination on the front of the train. You think its about jobs or immigration, think again. Its about becoming no more or no less than a small state in a Federal United states of Europe with a european Goverment and european laws, the end of parliamentary democracy and sovereignty in this country. If youre comfortable of supporting of this, vote IN by all means, but if that makes you shudder then consider that when you hear the bullshit about how it will affect trade, jobs or how the real issue is about immigration.
You get on a bus with no stops whose destination says manchester, you'd better be sure you actually want to go to manchester. Because thats where youre going once the door closes whether you like it or not.
We are a small but mighty nation, we have brought so much to the world including the beloved game. We are creative, tolerant, industrious. We will survive with or without the EU.
Do we really want ever closer union to eventually exchange our sovereignty and ability to govern ourselves in order to become a small part of a European federal superstate lead by Germany and governed by Brussels?
That is the only choice - IN or OUT
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
It's pretty obvious we are on an unstoppable journey to crash OUT of the EU, with Germany etc. not even accepting it's possible and not lifting a finger to help keep us in.
Oh well, I've given up caring, "c'est la vie", I'll be one of the few it seems voting to stay IN.
Oh well, I've given up caring, "c'est la vie", I'll be one of the few it seems voting to stay IN.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,026
well put, the whole "demands" have been a setup to look like something is being fought for, with a fudged solution, so he can come back and say he delivereed.
- Thread starter
- #114
"EU exit ‘would cost Britain £11bn in tariffs’
Lord Rose: Britain could be left without a trade deal
Splendid isolation not in UK’s interests, says Major
Patrick Wintour
Britain could face £11bn in new trading tariffs if it leaves the EU, according to the leader of the group campaigning for the UK to stay in.
Stuart Rose, who heads Stronger In Europe, published new research yesterday suggesting if Britain failed to get a free trade agreement it would have to move to trading with the EU according to World Trade Organisation rules, which would cost businesses and consumers more."
That's a lot of cash
Lord Rose: Britain could be left without a trade deal
Splendid isolation not in UK’s interests, says Major
Patrick Wintour
Britain could face £11bn in new trading tariffs if it leaves the EU, according to the leader of the group campaigning for the UK to stay in.
Stuart Rose, who heads Stronger In Europe, published new research yesterday suggesting if Britain failed to get a free trade agreement it would have to move to trading with the EU according to World Trade Organisation rules, which would cost businesses and consumers more."
That's a lot of cash
alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
Yes, how terrible, making them live within their means, and pay back borrowed money.
alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
very good post.
Presumably we would have a similar deal to the other non EU countries, so I'm not sure that figure is accurate.
I'm fence at the moment, though slipping ever so slightly towards 'out'.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
More scaremongering, coming from the same bloke who wanted us out of the EU at some point. We already pay out 8 billion a year to the EU plus billions of pounds out in benefits plus not forgetting the foreign aid budget, so it makes no difference, secondly they said could so that might not happen at all.
alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
so far on here the 'out' posters are winning, the 'in'posters just seem to be quoting unsubstantiated figures, which 'might' happen.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
There is one thing we can all guarantee 100%, immigration figures will never come down, we will never have full control of our borders all the time we are members of the EU, there is no escaping this fact.