Everywhere you look across Europe (through independent media) people are not content. Many, many problems concerning the unaccountable 'elite' and the reality of your own living environment 'worsening'. EU a success? A contemptible assertion in my opinion.
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*** The official Keep Britain in the EU thread ***
- Thread starter Herr Tubthumper
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #142
Sure some don't like it but at the top end Merkel got voted in a year or so ago with a record count and at the other end the Greek people repeatedly voted in their government very recently. And let's not forget the Greek government stepped down after they agreed the deal yet they still got voted back in.
Sometimes you just have to accept democracy, like I do with Cameron's UK.
And I just don't buy the unaccountable tag. Every country votes on proposals.
You live in Germany Tubby, your bias is massively obvious. You are myopic, polarised through self serving eyes and certainly irrelevant in my eyes.
- Thread starter
- #144
Whilst I disagree I'm happy to take most of that on the chin, but the self-serving bit I take issue with. What exactly do you mean by that?
I don't mean it as if you are a nasty person. Maybe I am guilty of assumption here but, I guess you work for a pan European company in Germany?
Big assumption perhaps. Not every one in the UK (or any other 'EU state') has their future dependent on European customers.
- Thread starter
- #147
That is a big assumption as I am a freelancer and I currently work for a UK company and paid in sterling. My work has absolutely nothing to do with my political beliefs. My person situation is such that neither Tory or Labour governments or the EU have any real bearing on my personal situation.
Lucky man.
I currently work for a business that both imports and exports to and from the EU. We also import and export from outside the EU. The former is far easier even if it is more expensive, but ease and stable trading conditions lead to a more predictable marketplace, leading to stability for business. Is this good or bad? Depends on your politics I guess.
What should be remembeted is that currently we are able to station UK border staff in Calais, allowing us a 22 mile buffer from those arriving from what could be described as 'countries whose population is neither entitled to EU protection, nor can be guaranteed to respect our culture and laws'. If we leave the EU can we really expect our border staff to continue to be allowed to work in France? Far easier to turn a blind eye to migrants getting past French border controls and then being either on Eurostar trains arriving in the UK, or be knocking on the door at the UK end of the tunnel.
I may be a Tory boy, but I am firmly in the 'IN' camp.
What should be remembeted is that currently we are able to station UK border staff in Calais, allowing us a 22 mile buffer from those arriving from what could be described as 'countries whose population is neither entitled to EU protection, nor can be guaranteed to respect our culture and laws'. If we leave the EU can we really expect our border staff to continue to be allowed to work in France? Far easier to turn a blind eye to migrants getting past French border controls and then being either on Eurostar trains arriving in the UK, or be knocking on the door at the UK end of the tunnel.
I may be a Tory boy, but I am firmly in the 'IN' camp.
glasfryn
cleaning up cat sick
don't like to tell they are getting through anyway how many is that have disappeared
out every time now, I have always been a commited european until the last few years
and as I have said before how many schools and hospitals and the staff to man them can we build with 55m a day
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
jgmcdee
New member
- Mar 25, 2012
- 931
That's a gross figure. Net is less than half that (~£24m) based on 2013 figures (which is where you obtained the £55m number, I suspect)[1].
Meanwhile the UK's GDP is around £1.5tn[2]. So if leaving the EU results in us losing even 1% of our GDP we'll be financially worse off.
[1] https://fullfact.org/economy/cost_eu_membership_gross_net_contribution-30887
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Mass migration has driven down the wages of workers in low-skilled jobs in the service industries, according to research by the Bank of England.
The influx of a huge number of eastern Europe migrants into jobs in catering, hotels and social care has led to an average 2 per cent cut in pay for workers in these sectors.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/economics/article4645270.ece
No great surprise but something else to think about when considering how EU membership, specifically the free movement of peoples effects some of the poorest in our society.
The influx of a huge number of eastern Europe migrants into jobs in catering, hotels and social care has led to an average 2 per cent cut in pay for workers in these sectors.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/economics/article4645270.ece
No great surprise but something else to think about when considering how EU membership, specifically the free movement of peoples effects some of the poorest in our society.
- Thread starter
- #155
I agree. But I'd introduce and robustly enforce a minimum living wage. Irrespective of the EU and immigration I'd have this anyway as I prefer to not let markets, and cocks like Mike Ashley, dictate standards of basic living. This way the workers get a decent salary and folk have freedom to move.
glasfryn
cleaning up cat sick
nearly all the political programmes on TV quote this (recently) as 55m and the problem here is that is what the great British public believe, and I doubt any read the links you have quoted, simply because maybe you and I might be interested but get to the first line and get bored, I have read them but still believe we would be better off out of the pigs trough it is.
it seems the successive governments keep saying the British should work and stand on their own two feet but do not to that themselves.
plus we are walking blindly into a federal Europe
And of course, after Brexit we can decide on our own minimum living wage, without any potential interference from the EU if someone doesn't like it.
crookie
Well-known member
I have always been very pro-EU, even thought we should have joined the Single Currency at the time
I am seriously considering voting out. I just can't see how this country can sustain mass immigration of 300000 every year with no way of controlling it, and the crushing pressure these numbers are having on our infrastructure, housing, roads, schools, hospitals, GP surgery's, environment, benefit system. Add to that the fact the EU accounts are never signed off, and the seemingly drive to ever closer union, driven by self-serving beaurocrats, that the European public have never really had a say on, I'm wavering
I am seriously considering voting out. I just can't see how this country can sustain mass immigration of 300000 every year with no way of controlling it, and the crushing pressure these numbers are having on our infrastructure, housing, roads, schools, hospitals, GP surgery's, environment, benefit system. Add to that the fact the EU accounts are never signed off, and the seemingly drive to ever closer union, driven by self-serving beaurocrats, that the European public have never really had a say on, I'm wavering
And how would you solve the problem of there now being more people fighting for the available jobs because of immigration ?
Regardless if immigration, my hatred of the EU is based on two issues :
1. The corruption and waste of money. If I belonged to a golf club that was inherently corrupt I'd leave.
2. The utter arrogance of the EU to impose new laws / regulations against individual states wishes. The Irish rejected the Lisbon Treaty - that should have been an end to it. But no, they were forced to vote again to get the 'correct' result. And let's remember that the EU forced government change in both Greece ( who's problems they were complicit in ) and Italy. The EU doesn't like democracy - it likes diktats - a word rather similar to DICTATOR.
.....and so the trickle towards a Brexit continues. You know, I think we might just win this one - that'll upset the politicians, who for too long have gone their own way without regard to the public. Two main parties, giving the electorate the chance to vote in the lesser of two evils every five years isn't great democracy; a resounding 'no' to the political establishment will be!I have always been very pro-EU, even thought we should have joined the Single Currency at the time
And it will, of course, be an ignominious end to Dave's political career, though I suspect if we vote 'out' the politicians will try and hold referendum after referendum until we vote the 'right' way. That's the EU way, after all.