The most convincing case fort the death penalty. ffs.

[NickBHAFC18]

Anyone who bangs on about how easy prisons are should try and spend some time in one. Trust me, they are not places most people would choose to be. On my work-related visits to several prisons, women's and men's, I couldn't leave quickly enough (I found the women's prisons even more depressing: take away the testosterone-fuelled machismo and all you have left is the stench of despair).

Of course there are some people who prefer to be inside than out; the question that poses for me isn't "how can we make prison worse" but "what the hell has happened to that person's life outside to make prison preferable".

People prefer easy "common sense" (surely a contender for the most misused phrase in our language?) to the difficult and uncomfortable process of learning.

If I had some more time (I am currently leaving work to head to the game) I would find some more articles, but here is just an example:

Convicted Killer Brags About Luxurious Life In Jail, | Radar Online

Prison is hard, yes, but no hard enough. I am not talking about preferring to be inside than out, I am talking about criminals that have such a cosy life behind bars that they show no remorse for what they have done and brag about the "punishment" that they are serving.

 

[Acker79]

Death Penalty and Innocence | Amnesty International USA
INNOCENT - Fighting miscarriages of justice

 

[Acker79]

If I had some more time (I am currently leaving work to head to the game) I would find some more articles, but here is just an example:

Convicted Killer Brags About Luxurious Life In Jail, | Radar Online

Prison is hard, yes, but no hard enough. I am not talking about preferring to be inside than out, I am talking about criminals that have such a cosy life behind bars that they show no remorse for what they have done and brag about the "punishment" that they are serving.

Paedophile Martin Smith found dead in prison - Telegraph
Pedophile Disemboweled in UK Prison | Newsflavor
Inmate slits throat of paedophile in prison attack | This is Staffordshire
Prisoner held over murder of paedophile Colin Hatch - Channel 4 News ("After the murder of a child sex killer held in a high security prison, one expert tells Channel 4 News: "long term prisoners get kudos for attacking people at the bottom of the hierarchy."")
Grendon Prison inmate 'tried to eat paedophile's brain' - Local News - Bucks Herald

These people would have a wonderful time in prison with their play stations and other things The Sun tells us they enjoy.

 

[BigGully]

Paedophile Martin Smith found dead in prison - Telegraph
Pedophile Disemboweled in UK Prison | Newsflavor
Inmate slits throat of paedophile in prison attack | This is Staffordshire
Prisoner held over murder of paedophile Colin Hatch - Channel 4 News ("After the murder of a child sex killer held in a high security prison, one expert tells Channel 4 News: "long term prisoners get kudos for attacking people at the bottom of the hierarchy."")
Grendon Prison inmate 'tried to eat paedophile's brain' - Local News - Bucks Herald

These people would have a wonderful time in prison with their play stations and other things The Sun tells us they enjoy.

Whats your point, are you saying that if they go to jail they get killed anyway and then you advocate them to go to jail !!!

We are on the same side here.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

There are numerous reports of prisoners living a life of luxury, It's far too common.

Having your liberty and freedom taken away is not " living a life of luxury "

 

[Norman Potting]

Anyone who bangs on about how easy prisons are should try and spend some time in one. Trust me, they are not places most people would choose to be. On my work-related visits to several prisons, women's and men's, I couldn't leave quickly enough (I found the women's prisons even more depressing: take away the testosterone-fuelled machismo and all you have left is the stench of despair).

Of course there are some people who prefer to be inside than out; the question that poses for me isn't "how can we make prison worse" but "what the hell has happened to that person's life outside to make prison preferable".

People prefer easy "common sense" (surely a contender for the most misused phrase in our language?) to the difficult and uncomfortable process of learning.

Thank you. I have waited a long time for someone who has spent time "inside" (ok not in the criminal sense) to tell how supposedly "easy" it is.

 

[BigGully]

Having your liberty and freedom taken away is not " living a life of luxury "

To you and me maybe not.

But to criminals its a breeze, I know I have been told.

However these brutal sexual paedophiles it is irrelevant, their only thought is how they might meet their next sordid sexual fix, preferably involving one of our children.

 

[supaseagull]

14 year old boy raped

Manchester police seek two men in connection with shopping centre rape | UK news | guardian.co.uk

I'd happily kick the stool.

Vile sub human bastards.

I know you probably don't mean it but your post comes across as saying the rape of a girl or a woman should carry less of a sentence than rape of a boy or man?

Rape is rape and it should lead to chemical castration once found guilty.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

14 year old boy raped

Manchester police seek two men in connection with shopping centre rape | UK news | guardian.co.uk

I'd happily kick the stool.

Vile sub human bastards.

Absolutely not. Our legal system is too flawed to have something as final as the death penalty.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Surely DNA and all the technology they have would mean that this situation wouldn't arise?

*** cough *** what about the police "wanting" a conviction *** cough ***

And it HAS happened !

 

[dingodan]

You what? Are you suggesting such perverts deserve to live?

We must start making decisions about who deserves to live and who deserves to die.

I'll start, you deserve to die.

O.k. your turn...oh...wait...

 

[BigGully]

Absolutely not. Our legal system is too flawed to have something as final as the death penalty.

Again what is your view ?

If you accept Ian Huntleys guilt, as everyone including he does, what then ??

Cut to the chase.

 

[martyn20]

Again what is your view ?

If you accept Ian Huntleys guilt, as everyone including he does, what then ??

Cut to the chase.

Your just not getting it, while there are still errors in the system you cannot do anything you cannot undo.

 

[Stat Brother]

Again what is your view ?

If you accept Ian Huntleys guilt, as everyone including he does, what then ??

Cut to the chase.

I've been thinking about that, as it's hard to argue against.

But if the end result is capital punishment, with nothing to lose, would it escalate the crime?

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I believe the death penalty is wrong in any civilised society.

 

[dingodan]

Again what is your view ?

If you accept Ian Huntleys guilt, as everyone including he does, what then ??

Cut to the chase.

So, if someone doesn't believe that Ian Huntley should be killed, they are defending Ian Huntley and his actions?

He Killed. Killing is wrong. Let's Kill him.

The real danger to our society is not a very very small minority of twisted individuals, the real danger to our society is people like you.

 

[Stat Brother]

Your just not getting it, while there are still errors in the system you cannot do anything you cannot undo.

I think BG is saying when there are no errors, what then?

Ian Brady has spent nearly 50 years in jail, is that time well spent?

 

[Stat Brother]

So, if someone doesn't believe that Ian Huntley should be killed, they are defending Ian Huntley and his actions?

He Killed. Killing is wrong. Let's Kill him.

The real danger to our society is not a very very small minority of twisted individuals, the real danger to our society is people like you.

Very true, proportionally these individuals are so few and far between we should be grateful this debate doesn't surface, weekly.

 

[BigGully]

So, if someone doesn't believe that Ian Huntley should be killed, they are defending Ian Huntley and his actions?

He Killed. Killing is wrong. Let's Kill him.

The real danger to our society is not a very very small minority of twisted individuals, the real danger to our society is people like you.

No not at all, those saying that you can never be sure of guilt is a red herring.

Those that are then asked how about those crimes with undeniable guilt, then what ?

Have a view and a belief and offer it, but dont bamboozle yourself with the irrelevant.

 

[JetsetJimbo]

[MENTION=23800]NickBHAFC18[/MENTION]: Absolutely get why articles like that get people riled, but the key word there is "brags". It's just bravado, with the intention being to get exactly the reaction you had.

If you really think prisons are so cushy, get involved in a Board of Visitors/ Independent Monitoring Board, there's nothing stopping any poster in this thread from doing that rather than going on second-hand accounts for papers with agendas. Go see for yourself. I'm not saying people are wrong to have these views, just that their views have been guided by unreliable and often malicious sources.

I only needed to be at Pentonville for a day to realise how much shit the papers talk about prisons. I visited many other prisons during the course of that job, and while the Cat D prisons could be described as a bit cushy (but only by a joyless Puritan), they're there to aid resettlement on release, so there's a good case for them to vaguely resemble outside life.

Our prisons are admittedly much more comfortable than America's. They're also much LESS comfortable than Norway's. The US is one of the few countries to have a far worse rate of recidivism than we do. Can you guess where has a far, far lower reoffending rate?

I understand this urge to have retribution as a key part of the justice system, I really do. I've been a victim of a few violent crimes, as have members of my family, and I'd personally take great pleasure in seeing the perpetrators take a beating. However, I have to face up to the statistically evident fact that retribution has appalling results as a way of dealing with crime, whilst rehabilitation has phenomenal success rates. Rehabilitation has more successful outcomes for society than retribution; the fact that it also has more successful outcomes for prisoners is immaterial when assessing the moral value of the approach (imo), but absolutely key to assessing what actually works.