[Politics] The Labour Government

[cjd]

If my mind was closed, I'd blindly vote the same party, election after election, and then defend their every action, in an equally blind fashion.

Fortunately, you're neither Guinness Boy or Watford Zero

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

If anyone thinks the government isn’t going to use the working people to plug the gap in the defecit, they’re dreaming.

Historically the working people have always shouldered the cost of corporate and governmental gambles that don’t pay off.

We’re mugs.

Kier Starmer is not one of us.

Starmer Benefits from lower tax on his pension

Sir Keir Starmer criticised over tax free pension scheme - BBC News

Labour defends its leader's pension arrangements against Conservative accusations of hypocrisy.

www.bbc.co.uk

How about we close that loop hole, expecting us to pay more, he can do the same.

 

[chip]

Starmer Benefits from lower tax on his pension

Which one of his pensions?

 

[Bold Seagull]

If my mind was closed, I'd be jumping on the "Raising Employer NI is a tax on working people" bandwagon. I don't see it as that, even though there is a direct impact on me as a one-man-band limited company. (It will present a problem for many SMEs, however, but that is a different subject).

If my mind was closed, I'd blindly vote the same party, election after election, and then defend their every action, in an equally blind fashion.

If Labour had said this:

"We will ensure taxes on working people are kept as low as possible, which is why we will not increase National Insurance, the basic, higher, or additional rates of Income Tax, or VAT."​

​

...I don't think anyone could quibble. But they didn't. And it seems likely that the tax burden on working people is likely to rise on Wednesday.

It’s not blindly voting, it’s having a personal ideology, a set of values and a commitment to a vision of society. In my lifetime, Thatcher, Major, Cameron, May, Johnson, Sunak have never represented my outlook on life. Unless you occupy the centre, whatever that is and can sit in your throne of open mindedness as political parties vie for your vote, that’s fine, but drop the pretence that sitting in the centre ground being courted by political parties is a definition of being open, it’s no more open than someone who may have voted for one party all their lives.

So we’re now getting down to the semantics of the wording, which is what I and others have been saying.

As a one man limited company owner myself, since 2010 no one raised taxes more than the last successive governments, then served up a bitter Covid pill while chucking thousands and millions at corporations.

If defending a sentence and pledge in manifesto of a new government ahead of their first budget after a previous government kicked a fiscal can down the road is me being closed minded in your opinion - so be it, but don’t pretend that only applies to me.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Starmer Benefits from lower tax on his pension

Sir Keir Starmer criticised over tax free pension scheme - BBC News

Labour defends its leader's pension arrangements against Conservative accusations of hypocrisy.

www.bbc.co.uk

How about we close that loop hole, expecting us to pay more, he can do the same.

Assuming the million pound cap is abolished as per expectation, then Starmer will surely have to repeal his own personal statutory instrument. It applies to him and him alone, so it would be trivial to do.

The Pensions Increase (Pension Scheme for Keir Starmer QC) Regulations 2013

These Regulations apply the provisions of the Pensions (Increase) Act 1971 to any pension payable under the pension scheme made under section 1 of the Superannuation Act 1972 for the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer QC.

www.legislation.gov.uk

The question is whether he would get a load of bad publicity as he dithers and squeals, or whether he would do it simultaneously with the budget. If he has any political nous, it would be announced with the budget.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Fortunately, you're neither Guinness Boy or Watford Zero

I've voted Lib Dem, Green and Labour in my life, lived abroad for six years in which I didn't vote at all and once voted in a local election for a comedy cartoon character. I constantly criticised Corbyn's Labour. You should find those posts easy to find, although given you only just found out you can get the radio on the internet, maybe not.

What I won't vote is Tory, because they kicked all the sensible ones out and are now stuffed with lying, venal law breakers, posh women who think you catch working classness by doing a shift in Maccys and people who crashed the economy, tripled my mortgage and ran off laughing and claiming it was the fault of the deep state.

Nor will I vote Reform because they're full of old, white, male neo facists. A bit like.........

 

[RandyWanger]

 

[Pevenseagull]

Starmer Benefits from lower tax on his pension

Sir Keir Starmer criticised over tax free pension scheme - BBC News

Labour defends its leader's pension arrangements against Conservative accusations of hypocrisy.

www.bbc.co.uk

How about we close that loop hole, expecting us to pay more, he can do the same.

Announced last year (about 2nd of third time it was announced)

Sir Keir Starmer says he would scrap his own pension tax perk

The Labour leader says he would include himself in plans to reverse high earner tax breaks.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Bus fares cap in England to be raised to £3

Bus fares cap in England to be raised to £3

www.bbc.co.uk

Why can't everything be confirmed on Wednesday in the budget?

It appears The Speaker agrees with me.

 

[Bozza]

It’s not blindly voting, it’s having a personal ideology, a set of values and a commitment to a vision of society. In my lifetime, Thatcher, Major, Cameron, May, Johnson, Sunak have never represented my outlook on life. Unless you occupy the centre, whatever that is and can sit in your throne of open mindedness as political parties vie for your vote, that’s fine, but drop the pretence that sitting in the centre ground being courted by political parties is a definition of being open, it’s no more open than someone who may have voted for one party all their lives.

So we’re now getting down to the semantics of the wording, which is what I and others have been saying.

As a one man limited company owner myself, since 2010 no one raised taxes more than the last successive governments, then served up a bitter Covid pill while chucking thousands and millions at corporations.

If defending a sentence and pledge in manifesto of a new government ahead of their first budget after a previous government kicked a fiscal can down the road is me being closed minded in your opinion - so be it, but don’t pretend that only applies to me.

I haven't once suggested it's not semantics. I've explicitly said I'm sure I know what they meant to say, but didn't.

And it's obvious why.

"Labour will not increase National Insurance, the basic, higher, or additional rates of Income Tax, or VAT, but it will be open season on every other form of taxation." doesn't read quite so nicely.

It really just comes down to what the IFS repeatedly said during the election campaign: outright dishonesty, from both major parties, at what was going to be required to get the nation back on a sound financial footing.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Announced last year (about 2nd of third time it was announced)

Sir Keir Starmer says he would scrap his own pension tax perk

The Labour leader says he would include himself in plans to reverse high earner tax breaks.

www.bbc.co.uk

Good news then

Why the delay?

We've got a black hole to fill and every little helps.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Good news then

Why the delay?

We've got a black hole to fill and every little helps.

1 yes.
2 how should I know? Hopefully as part of the budget, would seem the appropriate time to announce it. I'll be disappointed if at least the timescale isn't announced but would hope that there is an exemption for NHS as it's an incentive for highly skilled medical professionals staying on for a few more years.
3 indeed.

 

[Peteinblack]

I've voted Lib Dem, Green and Labour in my life, lived abroad for six years in which I didn't vote at all and once voted in a local election for a comedy cartoon character. I constantly criticised Corbyn's Labour. You should find those posts easy to find, although given you only just found out you can get the radio on the internet, maybe not.

What I won't vote is Tory, because they kicked all the sensible ones out and are now stuffed with lying, venal law breakers, posh women who think you catch working classness by doing a shift in Maccys and people who crashed the economy, tripled my mortgage and ran off laughing and claiming it was the fault of the deep state.

Nor will I vote Reform because they're full of old, white, male neo facists. A bit like.........

I could have written this, word-for-word (apart from the living abroad bit)!

 

[chip]

1 yes.
2 how should I know? Hopefully as part of the budget, would seem the appropriate time to announce it. I'll be disappointed if at least the timescale isn't announced but would hope that there is an exemption for NHS as it's an incentive for highly skilled medical professionals staying on for a few more years.
3 indeed.

Sounds like a great idea to give tax break to the already well payed. I think there are plenty of others you could make the same case for, James Milner even. Most of these people are already in the top 1% anyway.

But, they have already said that working people won't see any change in their payslips so can't be reintroducing the LTA unless they up it by £60K pa for the next five years.

 

[WATFORD zero]

We've been hearing for a long time about the dreadful state of Britain and it's transport infrastructure, the NHS, the Judiciary system, Education, Water, Power, Prisons etc

And there have been plenty of posts on here saying what taxes shouldn't go up, which taxes should be exempt due to posters interpretations of 'working people', which taxes will stifle growth, send SMEs out of business, which taxes will send large taxpayers scurrying abroad, which taxes will cause huge overcrowding in state schools, what groups shouldn't be targeted, etc etc etc

Does anyone actually have any suggestions for where investment can be raised ?

Because the only common thing I can see throughout this thread is 'tax someone else, not me'

 

[Pevenseagull]

Sounds like a great idea to give tax break to the already well payed. I think there are plenty of others you could make the same case for, James Milner even. Most of these people are already in the top 1% anyway.

But, they have already said that working people won't see any change in their payslips so can't be reintroducing the LTA unless they up it by £60K pa for the next five years.

would cost more for them to leave the NHS and then take them on as external consultants.


Edit
My pension knowledge is out of date but, regarding footballers, there certainly used to be a significant pension advantage in that they could start drawing benefits a LOT earlier than most people, think it used to be 35.

 

[Bozza]

We've been hearing for a long time about the dreadful state of Britain and it's transport infrastructure, the NHS, the Judiciary system, Education, Water, Power, Prisons etc

And there have been plenty of posts on here saying what taxes shouldn't go up, which taxes should be exempt due to posters interpretations of 'working people', which taxes will stifle growth, send SMEs out of business, which taxes will send large taxpayers scurrying abroad, which taxes will cause huge overcrowding in state schools, what groups shouldn't be targeted, etc etc etc

Does anyone actually have any suggestions for where investment can be raised ?

Because the only common thing I can see throughout this thread is 'tax someone else, not me'

A copy-and-paste from a post I made earlier today...

"Getting the country back on its feet is going to cost money, and that money has to come from somewhere. Just make sure there appears to be a perception of fairness, with the broad-shouldered taking the greatest burden etc."

Given this government kicked things off with the callous targeting of some of the nation's poorest, things can only get better (isn't there a song about that?) in terms of ensuring those who can contribute most, do.

I'm an optimistic soul at heart, so I remain hopeful they can successfully tread that path. Personally, I have no objection to paying my share, but, for context, I say that as someone unlikely to ever have a concern with either capital gains tax or inheritance tax. They seem like nice problems to have.

 

[Eeyore]

It’s not blindly voting, it’s having a personal ideology, a set of values and a commitment to a vision of society. In my lifetime, Thatcher, Major, Cameron, May, Johnson, Sunak have never represented my outlook on life. Unless you occupy the centre, whatever that is and can sit in your throne of open mindedness as political parties vie for your vote, that’s fine, but drop the pretence that sitting in the centre ground being courted by political parties is a definition of being open, it’s no more open than someone who may have voted for one party all their lives.

So we’re now getting down to the semantics of the wording, which is what I and others have been saying.

As a one man limited company owner myself, since 2010 no one raised taxes more than the last successive governments, then served up a bitter Covid pill while chucking thousands and millions at corporations.

If defending a sentence and pledge in manifesto of a new government ahead of their first budget after a previous government kicked a fiscal can down the road is me being closed minded in your opinion - so be it, but don’t pretend that only applies to me.

I would argue that a personal ideology is a closed mind and that values and standards shift over time. My goal is not to have a fixed view of anything really. Well, apart from refusing to shop at ASDA until they stock rich tea fingers again.

 

[cjd]

I've voted Lib Dem, Green and Labour in my life, lived abroad for six years in which I didn't vote at all and once voted in a local election for a comedy cartoon character. I constantly criticised Corbyn's Labour. You should find those posts easy to find, although given you only just found out you can get the radio on the internet, maybe not.

What I won't vote is Tory, because they kicked all the sensible ones out and are now stuffed with lying, venal law breakers, posh women who think you catch working classness by doing a shift in Maccys and people who crashed the economy, tripled my mortgage and ran off laughing and claiming it was the fault of the deep state.

Nor will I vote Reform because they're full of old, white, male neo facists. A bit like.........

Doesn't really matter who you SAY you vote for, you are still comfortably, the worst EVER moderator on this forum. Have a nice evening.

 

[WATFORD zero]

A copy-and-paste from a post I made earlier today...

"Getting the country back on its feet is going to cost money, and that money has to come from somewhere. Just make sure there appears to be a perception of fairness, with the broad-shouldered taking the greatest burden etc."

Given this government kicked things off with the callous targeting of some of the nation's poorest, things can only get better (isn't there a song about that?) in terms of ensuring those who can contribute most, do.

I'm an optimistic soul at heart, so I remain hopeful they can successfully tread that path. Personally, I have no objection to paying my share, but, for context, I say that as someone unlikely to ever have a concern with either capital gains tax or inheritance tax. They seem like nice problems to have.

Do you really think they kicked off with the callous targeting of the nation's poorest ? I thought that similar to myself, you agreed with the policy but disagreed with the cut off level.

And I agree with your statement, but it's a bit like the term 'working people', completely open to interpretation. So, what actual areas do you think should be targeted ?