[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Stat Brother]

[tweet]1201406097581576194[/tweet]

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Its not Get Brexit Done, its Get Britain Done

Tusk called it right, Brexit really will be the Real of the End of British Empire, and still Brexiters wrap themselves in the jack claiming to be so patriotic, bizarre...

Of course it was all going swimmingly well before the referendum.
Cameron was going to get an amazing deal out of the EU ( yes...if you remember...we weren't happy with our status within the bloc ) Then we were going to vote to remain in a ' reformed ' EU ( chuckle ) and all the time, since we opened the floodgates in 1997, our population was rising by more than the total populations of Birmingham, Greater Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Bristol, Hull, Cardiff, Glasgow and Edinburgh, which has f-ck-d us as a country, creating ghetto's, no go areas, large Eastern European crime syndication, increased drug dealing, prostitution and child crimes, including trafficking. Knife crime is now out of control. There was simmering social unease and unrest built up over 20-25 years, all being ignored, particularly in the ' I'm alright Jack ' South, whilst our community fabric continued to disintegrate in the Midlands and North. Our services have been under pressure and struggling for years. Our infrastructure wasn't designed for 65million ( rising to 70m by 2026 ) Our roads can't cope, our hospitals can't cope, our schools can't cope and all our other public services can't cope.
Nobody was bothered before the referendum. Now its all the fault of Brexit.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Just caught the end of the ITV debate tonight, Farage's closing statement said it was all too PC. Think he is really is a busted flush these days

I have been told that when he was a trader he was a loud mouthed bully. When arrangements are made that preclude one participant looming over another, blowing fag smoke in their face, and using epithets of belittling abuse, I'm sure it all feels a bit too 'PC' for that participant.

Wow, I just looked up Farage online and was directed to today's Express. Here I learn that Farage won the debate, with the audience 'laughing' at his mocking of the SNP leader. Also the express reports 'BBC viewers turn of as Andrew Marr loses temper with Boris'. **** me sideways. I can't decide whether the Prancing Ninny has had his tiny mind warped by costant reading of such bilge, or if he's actually an express employee, gleefully puting his twisted spin on the news.

 

[theonlymikey]

David Merritt, the father of the man killed in the attack, has taken issue with the front pages of the Mail and Express, urging them not to use his son’s death “to promote your vile propaganda”.

David Merritt
(@butwhatifitsall)
Don’t use my son’s death, and his and his colleague’s photos - to promote your vile propaganda. Jack stood against everything you stand for - hatred, division, ignorance. https://t.co/R8LO16lugk

December 1, 2019

 

[Hamilton]

My humblest apologies for butting in but I agree with [MENTION=12947]Lincoln Imp[/MENTION] (as usual ), there seems to be a glaring contradiction in your view that Brexit being enacted is the only way to heal the divisions while going on marches insisting the public should have a chance to stop it.

Btw I don't think the 17.4 million voted to leave with a number one priority to make the country economically stronger although the 'evidence' that couldn't happen is provided by people who can't predict 1 year in advance accurately let alone the medium/long term.

It's my belief that unless we leave, the wound will be left open and continuously scratched by those determined to exit the EU. They have been fighting for this for years. Therefore, to heal the divisions, we leave. We are already seeing signs that our influence on the world stage and our economy is not performing as strongly because of our exit from the EU. That slow decrease will continue for some time before settling.

As for making the country stronger by leaving, both the current indicators and other long term indicators suggest that we will have been stronger remaining in the EU. But, we've voted the way we voted and I had hoped that those who voted leave may have changed their minds. They have not.

 

[Grombleton]

What is really sickening is watching democracy being usurped by people like yourself who abuse and insult those who have temerity to hold an opinion different to your own.

This weird trope about democracy being 'usurped' is an odd one. It's almost as if people have forgotten what the definition of democratic is... It seems to have become a case of 'we've decided, so no you can't change your mind or speak up about things you don't agree on'.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

My business trades with customers in various EU nations (and the US) and we are completely paralysed at the moment. The day we actually leave we can resume trade and we are all (us and our customers) ready to go. We'd all rather be permanently in, but the current limbo land is damaging us all. But, hey, what do I know?

Its no different for UK businesses who do all their trade internally. Business is flat and depressed. There is no investment taking place and the general public are spending less. Three and a half years of doom- mongering has had an effect. Its dragged the economy into a depressive state and scared a lot of people shitless.
There has to be resolve and fast, otherwise a lot of businesses will be closing their doors in 2020.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

This weird trope about democracy being 'usurped' is an odd one. It's almost as if people have forgotten what the definition of democratic is... It seems to have become a case of 'we've decided, so no you can't change your mind or speak up about things you don't agree on'.

Ah yes....' democracy ' ........just to be sure, checked with the oracle.....' government by all the people, direct or representative ; form of society ignoring hereditary class distinctions and tolerating minority views '
( Thought so....we don't live in a democracy )

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Of course it was all going swimmingly well before the referendum.
Cameron was going to get an amazing deal out of the EU ( yes...if you remember...we weren't happy with our status within the bloc ) Then we were going to vote to remain in a ' reformed ' EU ( chuckle ) and all the time, since we opened the floodgates in 1997, our population was rising by more than the total populations of Birmingham, Greater Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Bristol, Hull, Cardiff, Glasgow and Edinburgh, which has f-ck-d us as a country, creating ghetto's, no go areas, large Eastern European crime syndication, increased drug dealing, prostitution and child crimes, including trafficking. Knife crime is now out of control. There was simmering social unease and unrest built up over 20-25 years, all being ignored, particularly in the ' I'm alright Jack ' South, whilst our community fabric continued to disintegrate in the Midlands and North. Our services have been under pressure and struggling for years. Our infrastructure wasn't designed for 65million ( rising to 70m by 2026 ) Our roads can't cope, our hospitals can't cope, our schools can't cope and all our other public services can't cope.
Nobody was bothered before the referendum. Now its all the fault of Brexit.

Brexit is primarily about taking back control. Primarily about taking back control of migration.

Below are 2019 stats from https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

So, in what way will leaving the EU result in the tories meeting new migration targets when (get this) net migration from outside the EU is over 200,000 now, under the tories watch? The UK is not obliged to let any of these non EU migrants into the country, yet we do. Ten years after the tories were elected.

My question is this: are the tories totally incompetant, a bunch of effing liars, or are they deliberately 'flooding' the UK with non-EU migrants? I'd love to hear Boris explain this (sorry, I mean blame labour for this).

 

[wellquickwoody]

David Merritt, the father of the man killed in the attack, has taken issue with the front pages of the Mail and Express, urging them not to use his son’s death “to promote your vile propaganda”.

David Merritt
(@butwhatifitsall)
Don’t use my son’s death, and his and his colleague’s photos - to promote your vile propaganda. Jack stood against everything you stand for - hatred, division, ignorance. https://t.co/R8LO16lugk

December 1, 2019

And your point is what exactly?

 

[Papa Lazarou]

And your point is what exactly?

Tories are bad? Just a guess.

 

[theonlymikey]

And your point is what exactly?

To spread information and awareness?

 

[wellquickwoody]

This weird trope about democracy being 'usurped' is an odd one. It's almost as if people have forgotten what the definition of democratic is... It seems to have become a case of 'we've decided, so no you can't change your mind or speak up about things you don't agree on'.

I just find it very sad that discussion without abuse seems impossible for many. The diatribe that Tories are ‘evil’ or ‘facist’, perhaps calling them wrong or self serving might be more productive? I have called JC deluded or an ideologist on occassion, I have never intimated that he is anything other than a Utopian, but he is most definitely incorrect about how to achieve his dreams.

 

[wellquickwoody]

To spread information and awareness?

Don’t deflect.

You are trying to gain a political score.

 

[theonlymikey]

Don’t deflect.

You are trying to gain a political score.

How could I possibly be politically scoring when his dads tweet mentions rags, not parties? Doyle.

 

[Grombleton]

I just find it very sad that discussion without abuse seems impossible for many. The diatribe that Tories are ‘evil’ or ‘facist’, perhaps calling them wrong or self serving might be more productive? I have called JC deluded or an ideologist on occassion, I have never intimated that he is anything other than a Utopian, but he is most definitely incorrect about how to achieve his dreams.

I can't comment for everyone of course, but I think it's a combination of factors - lack of understanding about certain terms (Tories = fascist, Corbyn = Marxist to name two), influence by the media (whether they admit it or not) for example. Another issue is people making the assertions without backing those claims up - leading to people calling them out (rightly so) but perhaps not doing it in the most appropriate way.

Additionally, the wonderful case of not wanting to be called out on their opinion, or willing to see how it could be different - to that end if met with resistance people naturally attack thinking it will have an alternative effect, given that reasoning or logic may have failed previously. I don't really agree with it (and I am definitely guilty of it myself) but it seems that's where we are with society in general.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I can only go on what she writes and not what she thinks or what you think she might be thinking and unable to convey even if she was, as you are saying, indulging in hyperbole.
If someone writes and asks how is it even possible to trade with someone without a trade deal i will tend to think their daft reasoning is up the wazoo.

I can't think of a single poster on this thread who doesn't realise that we import toys from China and sell, er, things to America so, yes, I do think you are being a bit pedantic, especially in view of your target.

PS Just for the record you DID tell us what Thunder Bolt was thinking. It's there in black and white.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Is this correct?
The crucial aspect from what I can gather from the ongoing spat is the relevance to the automatic release aspect without assessment from a parole board.
I was under the impression that Khan`s original sentence where he would have been subjected to a parole board review after his minimum term (8 years of 16)was quashed on appeal(in 2013) and he was now given(after appeal) a determinate sentence with automatic release on half (8 years) of his 16 year sentence and no parole board input to determine if he was still a threat. The Tories repealed the automatic release clause in law and changed it to parole board review after 2/3rds of sentence which was implemented in dec 2012, the judge in the appeal in 2013 though had to use the legislative guidelines toward determinate sentences at the time he committed the offence (2010) which was the labour legislation introduced in 2008 hence why he was able for automatic release on licence in 2018 without a parole board input.
Im starting to get the feeling successive governments for nearly two decades have simply failed to come to terms with the long term threat of these religious nutters and this is a collective failure we should all be angry about no matter what fence we perch on in the political spectrum.

I stand to be corrected, but this is how I see it too. Putting the past to one side, which might be where it belongs for the moment, it's sad but inevitable that Johnson is seeing these two deaths as a sales opportunity to beat his throw-away-the-key populist drum. Trumpery.

 

[abc]

Tories are bad? Just a guess.

 

[theonlymikey]

Council tax more likely to go up under Conservatives than Labour or Lib Dems, Institute for Fiscal Studies suggests

The Institute for Fiscal Studies has published a briefing on the Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat plans for local government funding. This is not an issue that has attracted much attention in the campaign so far, but it deserves some focus because councils provide vital services – and the gap between what’s on offer from the Tories and Labour is vast.

Although the Conservatives claim to be a low-tax party, under their plans it is more likely that council tax would have to rise, the IFS suggests.