[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Bold Seagull]

The IFS has more to say on Labour's Freebies, specifically their £58bn Waspi pensions pledge ...

...it immediately breaks the promises they made in their manifesto just last week only to borrow to invest.

"So, they would need even more than their £80 billion tax rises if they wanted to cover that.

"The other, I suppose, is just a statement of priorities or decisive lack of priorities, because there's so much money for so many things, but they're not finding money, for example, to reverse the welfare cuts for genuinely poor people of working wage.

Do you ever post anything positive for the party you're going to vote for? You seem completely and unequivocally obsessed with Labour. Or, like the Tories and their powerful friends, you're on all out attack mode...a risky strategy if it starts backfiring like the Remain campaign before it did. Project Fear anyone? You're a full on paid up member.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Jesus wept. You can’t be this daft.
We have not yet left the EU. We may well leave the EU because of referendum held in 2016. Leave won this referendum. At some point in the future we may leave the EU.
This is what has changed since the last Scottish referendum. It’s a major change in circumstance.
The vast majority of the people of Scotland don’t like that change in circumstance. The vast majority wish to remain in the EU.
The change in circumstance has made it desirable for Scotland to have another referendum as they don’t wish to get dragged out of the EU by England.
Please don’t tell me you didn’t know that?

But but I thought you have been saying it was only an advisory referendum which three years later hasn't been enacted therefore it isn't a major change in circumstances plus a future Labour minority government would most likely be reliant on SNP votes to hold a second referendum as the Tories would oppose a Remain/Labour soft Brexit referendum. They would have an effective veto on us leaving.

The EU referendum was held on a UK wide basis there was no opt - out option for the different component parts of the UK. Please don’t tell me you didn’t know that?

 

[nicko31]

The Scots also voted to stay in the EU by way of that vote the conditions have now changed. If you are being pedantic about once in a life time then the give that vote to those who have become of age since the last vote and I will lay odds a vote to leave the UK will be the majority.

Northern Ireland has not had that once in a life vote so you are ok with them having a referendum ?

Of course NI have a special customs deal that screws some industries in Scotland, why shouldn't they be given the same deal?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Do you ever post anything positive for the party you're going to vote for? You seem completely and unequivocally obsessed with Labour. Or, like the Tories and their powerful friends, you're on all out attack mode...a risky strategy if it starts backfiring like the Remain campaign before it did. Project Fear anyone? You're a full on paid up member.

Have you noticed the numerous peeps on here (some not even BHA supporters) only ever attacking the Tories ... the bringer of TRUTHand the bringer of political BALANCE ... you're welcome

#letsgetbrexitdone

 

[The Clamp]

But but I thought you have been saying it was only an advisory referendum which three years later hasn't been enacted therefore it isn't a major change in circumstances plus a future Labour minority government would most likely be reliant on SNP votes to hold a second referendum as the Tories would oppose a Remain/Labour soft Brexit referendum. They would have an effective veto on us leaving.

The EU referendum was held on a UK wide basis there was no opt - out option for the different component parts of the UK. Please don’t tell me you didn’t know that?

Come back to me when you are grown up enough to have a reasoned debate.

 

[Baldseagull]

Archbishop of Canterbury has in the last hour tweeted a message in a show of support for the chief Rabbi. Please remember that the argument that the Conservatives have a few issues themselves of isolated racism does not mean that the widespread , institutional and accepted anti Semitic language and mindset within labour under Corbyn can somehow be excused, it can’t.

Tradionally the majority of Jewish people voted labour just like in America where most voted democrat. This has only changed since Corbyn took over as leader. Historically there were no major issues with anti Semitic behaviour within the Labour Party.

Robert Peston who is Jewish but very rarely mentions his religion has tweeted today about how bad it has got for the chief rabbi to make such a statement. Traditionally the chief rabbi has sent goodwill messages to all PM’s in this country be it labour or Tory so the insinuation that he only supports Tory PM’s is not true.

This is an example of what I mean by it being overstated, and the implication of Corbyn himself as an antisemite. The way you state it, it seems as if antisemites are actively recruited into the Labour party.

 

[BenGarfield]

The IFS has more to say on Labour's Freebies, specifically their £58bn Waspi pensions pledge ...

...it immediately breaks the promises they made in their manifesto just last week only to borrow to invest.

"So, they would need even more than their £80 billion tax rises if they wanted to cover that.

"The other, I suppose, is just a statement of priorities or decisive lack of priorities, because there's so much money for so many things, but they're not finding money, for example, to reverse the welfare cuts for genuinely poor people of working wage.

A government such as the UK with its own currency doesnt have to borrow or fund from taxation. It cannot go broke. It is not like a household. Its more like the banker in a monopoly game. The government would need to create the money via its central bank, and push it into the economy provided that full employment hasnt been achieved, at which point measures such as rises in taxation may be necessary in order to limit inflation.

 

[Weststander]

Have you noticed the numerous peeps on here (some not even BHA supporters) only ever attacking the Tories ... the bringer of TRUTHand the bringer of political BALANCE ... you're welcome

#letsgetbrexitdone

NSC has evolved into an often largely political forum, rather than for football. A magnet for those with little interest in the Stripes.

At least the bait is generating clicks.

 

[Weststander]

A government such as the UK with its own currency doesnt have to borrow or fund from taxation. It cannot go broke. It is not like a household. Its more like the banker in a monopoly game. The government would need to create the money via its central bank, and push it into the economy provided that full employment hasnt been achieved, at which point measures such as rises in taxation may be necessary in order to limit inflation.

Countries do effectively go bust, requiring a handout from the Eurozone, World Bank or IMF. The southern Eurozone countries did this about ten years ago,

Printing money does have a price on a nation. This is an economic, not political point. In essence the worth of the state (actual assets and GDP creating capacity), is diluted into more paper monetary units. Consequences are often; inflation, a run on the currency, imports cost more, and international money markets/credit rating agencies downgrade the government's loans (gilts), meaning the country is question has to pay a greater rate of interest on its debt to the money markets or bondholders than it would have otherwise.

If this wasn’t true, then every country could go on a printing money spending spree to but everything anyone ever wanted, today.

 

[nicko31]

The IFS has more to say on Labour's Freebies, specifically their £58bn Waspi pensions pledge ...

...it immediately breaks the promises they made in their manifesto just last week only to borrow to invest.

"So, they would need even more than their £80 billion tax rises if they wanted to cover that.

"The other, I suppose, is just a statement of priorities or decisive lack of priorities, because there's so much money for so many things, but they're not finding money, for example, to reverse the welfare cuts for genuinely poor people of working wage.

I thought the IFS was all project fear, make ya mind up....

 

[Baldseagull]

Real change, oh you mean nationalising the railways so they have no incentive to run on time because their state owned and no one can complain. Oh you mean massively increasing tax on hard working parents who may want to leave their house or flat to their children. ( heaven forbid ) oh you mean getting rid of our nuclear deterrent so we are a sitting duck for every loony dictator out there oh and give squatters more rights to break into people’s property and not get thrown straight out. Oh yes change under Corbyn will be great if you are workshy , jealous of other people’s success and are happy to live in a country where the state monitor your every move because they own the internet provider you are using. I suggest you go live in Venezuela if you like Corbyn and his extreme socialism so much.

Oh dear. The incentive to run trains to the timetable is that is the job, run trains from a to b to time. How about it not mattering if you have inherited a house from your parents, because everyone can afford a home?

 

[BenGarfield]

Countries do effectively go bust, requiring a handout from the Eurozone, World Bank or IMF. The southern Eurozone countries did this about ten years ago,

Printing money does have a price on a nation. This is an economic, not political point. In essence the worth of the state (actual assets and GDP creating capacity), is diluted into more paper monetary units. Consequences are often; inflation, a run on the currency, imports cost more, and international money markets/credit rating agencies downgrade the government's loans (gilts), meaning the country is question has to pay a greater rate of interest on its debt to the money markets or bondholders than it would have otherwise.

If this wasn’t true, then every country could go on a printing money spending spree to but everything anyone ever wanted, today.

Every country can1t print money - e.g the eurozone ones, for example and they can go bust. Yes, it seems you can spend as much as you like given the restraints on inflation which I have already alluded to. In that sense, there is a magic money tree. I know this requires something of a paradigm shift. Japan, for example, has done this for many years with no significant inflation.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Good to hear. He is an excellent bloke - local state school teacher. Simply believes in Labour policies and works hard to communicate positively and persuade people.

People who might vote Labour in Eastbourne choosing to vote tactically for Lib Dems has long been a tricky issue though. I have done it myself before, and a "keep Ansell out" and "one less Tory in Westminster" logic remains hard to refute, but this time I will vote Labour because I want to vote for what I believe in.

I want as many votes as possible registered in support of this Labour manifesto and the idea that a real change to what we have come to accept as normal in this country must be possible. This will be a long term process but it is what I want for my son and for the rest of his generation to benefit from - compared to the dismal self-interest that has held sway for most of my adult life.

I agree with the spirit of what you say, and particularly with your final sentence. I am lucky, because voting for the party I belong to is also the tactically obvious thing to do. You don't have that luxury - it is a question of head or heart.

Are you absolutely sure it is best to follow your heart? I respect your reasoning but surely voting Labour in Eastbourne will simply make a Conservative win more likely? Every marginal seat the Tories fail to win increases the chance a hung parliament and with it the possibility of a loose pro-Ref2 coalition built round the Labour Party. Sure, such a coalition would not be the red-blooded affair you would like (and some of us wouldn't) but it would surely be better than the spectre of a right-wing-Tory-and-possible-no-deal-Brexit in 12 months' time? That really would be awful for your son, and for my children and grandchildren too.

 

[Wardy's twin]

So Israel is off limits then? If it helps, I disagree with British atrocities. I also disagree with sales of arms to countries who commit atrocities. Can I criticise Israel now? Can I can I?

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I have been looking closely at Israel for 40+ years. I don't agree with Netanyahu but it his him and Likud that is the issue rather than Jews or the Israeli state as he has an extreme view of how things should be i.e. destroy the terrorists and you can then negotiate , unfortunately when you undertake strong arm measures you also start picking up 'terrorist' traits. History has shown that military strength alone does does not work and that the best way to move forward is to negotiate.

The problem is of course much more complex than that because it is not just the Palestinians and what has happened to them there are other strands as in the past various Arab states wanted to destroy Israel and whilst many of those have moved on Iran (since the early 80's) has had a foreign policy which is targeted to destroy the State of Israel and the Jewish people there in. This particular thread is bubbling under with the odd spat rising to the surface in Syria where Iran is building up its military. Iran also now has a strong military arm in Gaza. This has re-enforced Netanyahu's position and he continues to do what he wants.

To me the way forward has to be that Iran, Syria and others need to recognise the State of Israel and that should then allow for talks to begin and Israel will need to concede on various items. They have been close to this a few times in the past but events have stopped it happening. The Saudi v Iran power struggle is not going to help anything either as the latter sees that its strong handling of Israel will see it gain a lot of support in the Muslim world.

To me the realpolik decision now is who do we support (because the reality is we have to) and the choice is either an anti west, theocratic Iran or a pro west , semi democratic Israel. I know where my vote goes.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Come back to me when you are grown up enough to have a reasoned debate.

I'm not sure you quite understand how being an internet-based campaigner for the Conservative Party actually works

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have been looking closely at Israel for 40+ years. I don't agree with Netanyahu but it his him and Likud that is the issue rather than Jews or the Israeli state as he has an extreme view of how things should be i.e. destroy the terrorists and you can then negotiate , unfortunately when you undertake strong arm measures you also start picking up 'terrorist' traits. History has shown that military strength alone does does not work and that the best way to move forward is to negotiate.

The problem is of course much more complex than that because it is not just the Palestinians and what has happened to them there are other strands as in the past various Arab states wanted to destroy Israel and whilst many of those have moved on Iran (since the early 80's) has had a foreign policy which is targeted to destroy the State of Israel and the Jewish people there in. This particular thread is bubbling under with the odd spat rising to the surface in Syria where Iran is building up its military. Iran also now has a strong military arm in Gaza. This has re-enforced Netanyahu's position and he continues to do what he wants.

To me the way forward has to be that Iran, Syria and others need to recognise the State of Israel and that should then allow for talks to begin and Israel will need to concede on various items. They have been close to this a few times in the past but events have stopped it happening. The Saudi v Iran power struggle is not going to help anything either as the latter sees that its strong handling of Israel will see it gain a lot of support in the Muslim world.

To me the realpolik decision now is who do we support (because the reality is we have to) and the choice is either an anti west, theocratic Iran or a pro west , semi democratic Israel. I know where my vote goes.

This. Every word.

 

[theonlymikey]

Have you noticed the numerous peeps on here (some not even BHA supporters) only ever attacking the Tories ... the bringer of TRUTHand the bringer of political BALANCE ... you're welcome

#letsgetbrexitdone

Your response doesn't wash. I combine anti Tory with lots if pro labour. You are anti Labour but I haven't seen you champion much if any of the Tory Manifesto

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[Baldseagull]

Moving on for a moment...……..

Does anyone, outside Scotland, feel that Scottish independence is a significant election issue?

Corbyn will give them another referendum, Johnson won't. I don't really care either way

If there is a reversal of Brexit, I think the case for a Scottish Independence vote goes away, if we leave the EU, then I can see a justification for it.

 

[Wardy's twin]

If there is a reversal of Brexit, I think the case for a Scottish Independence vote goes away, if we leave the EU, then I can see a justification for it.

Exactly but don't ignore that the majority of NI voted to remain as well and they have a much stronger argument to leave the UK.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Really
Regards
DF

Remember. You reap what you sow.