[Politics] The General Election Thread

[abc]

I have been looking closely at Israel for 40+ years. I don't agree with Netanyahu but it his him and Likud that is the issue rather than Jews or the Israeli state as he has an extreme view of how things should be i.e. destroy the terrorists and you can then negotiate , unfortunately when you undertake strong arm measures you also start picking up 'terrorist' traits. History has shown that military strength alone does does not work and that the best way to move forward is to negotiate.

The problem is of course much more complex than that because it is not just the Palestinians and what has happened to them there are other strands as in the past various Arab states wanted to destroy Israel and whilst many of those have moved on Iran (since the early 80's) has had a foreign policy which is targeted to destroy the State of Israel and the Jewish people there in. This particular thread is bubbling under with the odd spat rising to the surface in Syria where Iran is building up its military. Iran also now has a strong military arm in Gaza. This has re-enforced Netanyahu's position and he continues to do what he wants.

To me the way forward has to be that Iran, Syria and others need to recognise the State of Israel and that should then allow for talks to begin and Israel will need to concede on various items. They have been close to this a few times in the past but events have stopped it happening. The Saudi v Iran power struggle is not going to help anything either as the latter sees that its strong handling of Israel will see it gain a lot of support in the Muslim world.

To me the realpolik decision now is who do we support (because the reality is we have to) and the choice is either an anti west, theocratic Iran or a pro west , semi democratic Israel. I know where my vote goes.

Thank you for this. I constantly feel that I don't know enough about the middle east situation to have an informed or balanced opinion but your synopsis seems balanced and reasonable. Given your long term interest, do you have an idea of how peace could be achieved in this region, preferably without significant conflict?

 

[abc]

If there is a reversal of Brexit, I think the case for a Scottish Independence vote goes away, if we leave the EU, then I can see a justification for it.

If I was Scottish, I suspect I would at the very least see the justification. What I was wondering is whether anyone in the UK, outside of Scotland, cares enough for the issue to influence their vote?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Disgusting clowns

 

[abc]

Back to the anti Semitism thread.....

From the BBC news site:

In an interview with Andrew Neil, to be broadcast at 19:00 GMT on BBC One, Mr Corbyn is asked four times whether he was going to apologise to the British Jewish community following the chief rabbi's claim that Labour was not doing enough to root out anti-Jewish racism.

Is Corbyn wrong not to apologise or does he have a choice? It struck me the other day when Johnson was similarly outed for not apologising about something or other (sorry, cant remember what the issue was now). We ('the people', 'the media', 'the electorate') demand apologies from politicians but then will go on to condemn them for giving them. Maybe they cant win? We go on to vilify all politicians, but do we simply get the politicians we deserve?

 

[nicko31]

If I was Scottish, I suspect I would at the very least see the justification. What I was wondering is whether anyone in the UK, outside of Scotland, cares enough for the issue to influence their vote?

Its one for Boris's four pillars for me

No deal Brexit
Destroying our own Union
Beginning of the end for NHS
Inaction on climate change

 

[beorhthelm]

A government such as the UK with its own currency doesnt have to borrow or fund from taxation. It cannot go broke. It is not like a household. Its more like the banker in a monopoly game. The government would need to create the money via its central bank, and push it into the economy provided that full employment hasnt been achieved, at which point measures such as rises in taxation may be necessary in order to limit inflation.

this is economic dribble of course, though if it were the case all you've done say we'll pay for it all in taxes later.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Moving on for a moment...……..

Does anyone, outside Scotland, feel that Scottish independence is a significant election issue?

Corbyn will give them another referendum, Johnson won't. I don't really care either way

Sorry, but just before you move on, do you want to retract your statement that the Labour front bench is full of anti-semites, or provide some actual evidence of a labour party front bencher saying or doing something anti-semitic (or maybe a number of them if the front bench is full of them?)

Don't disagree but a labour front bench and party full of anti semites is, at the very very least, no better

It's just that I did ask a day ago for some evidence and have been waiting ever since for an answer. And I'm not even a Labour supporter, I just think that if we are going to make a statement like that, we should have the evidence to justify it. Thanks

 

[abc]

As a distraction, how about a non party political debate as to how one would like to see our constitution revamped to re energise both interest and belief in politics for everyone in our country?

Here's my starter for ten:

1. Compulsory voting for all
2. An elected second house
3. Proportional representation
4. An independent body that prosecutes political parties for lying (OK, naïve I know but a nice thought!)

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Micheal Heseltine summed it all up perfectly this morning.
He even had Piers Morgan in his pocket.
Anyone, leave or remain, if you didn't watch it I suggest you do.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Jezza McSquirmy

 

[Bry Nylon]

Andrew Neil in the process of systematically taking Jezza to bits on BBC1.

 

[abc]

Sorry, but just before you move on, do you want to retract your statement that the Labour front bench is full of anti-semites, or provide some actual evidence of a labour party front bencher saying or doing something anti-semitic ?



It's just that I did ask a day ago and have been waiting since for an answer. And I'm not even a Labour supporter, I just think we should be honest. Thanks

Good grief! I answered this succinctly and clearly (in my opinion at least!). Anti Semitism is a very, very serious problem within the labour party - an arguable fact unless you are either politically blind or an anti semite yourself (and not suggesting you are). The front bench are the leadership and have failed to tackle this issue and at times have inflamed it. Plenty of other posters have given examples of this including Corbyn's defence of a 'cartoon' typical of those published by the Nazis. They could have acted on anti Semitism but have chosen not to and continue to deny reality. I (and maybe others wont) conclude this implies a front bench full of anti semites.

I too am not expressing a party political opinion, just a deep hatred of anti Semitism and all those that condone it, whether through action or inaction.

 

[abc]

Good grief! I answered this succinctly and clearly (in my opinion at least!). Anti Semitism is a very, very serious problem within the labour party - an arguable fact unless you are either politically blind or an anti semite yourself (and not suggesting you are). The front bench are the leadership and have failed to tackle this issue and at times have inflamed it. Plenty of other posters have given examples of this including Corbyn's defence of a 'cartoon' typical of those published by the Nazis. They could have acted on anti Semitism but have chosen not to and continue to deny reality. I (and maybe others wont) conclude this implies a front bench full of anti semites.

I too am not expressing a party political opinion, just a deep hatred of anti Semitism and all those that condone it, whether through action or inaction.

edit: UNarguable fact....

 

[Weststander]

Thank f**k someone’s finally asking questions about taxation, with real knowledge.

The Scandinavians fund their welfare system from everyone. The Labour manifesto purports to do the same by just taxing those over £80k and companies more. The sums don’t add up. Hence the in the small print attack on anyone who owns shares, or runs a tiny limited company.

 

[Is it PotG?]

How will you pay for it Jezza?

 

[KZNSeagull]

"Can I finish?"

 

[KZNSeagull]

Thank f**k someone’s finally asking questions about taxation, with real knowledge.

The Scandinavians fund their welfare system from everyone. The Labour manifesto purports to do the same by just taxing those over £80k and companies more. The sums don’t add up. Hence the in the small print attack on anyone who owns shares, or runs a tiny limited company.

Yup. That is the first time I have heard it mentioned.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Back to the anti Semitism thread.....

From the BBC news site:

In an interview with Andrew Neil, to be broadcast at 19:00 GMT on BBC One, Mr Corbyn is asked four times whether he was going to apologise to the British Jewish community following the chief rabbi's claim that Labour was not doing enough to root out anti-Jewish racism.

Is Corbyn wrong not to apologise or does he have a choice? It struck me the other day when Johnson was similarly outed for not apologising about something or other (sorry, cant remember what the issue was now). We ('the people', 'the media', 'the electorate') demand apologies from politicians but then will go on to condemn them for giving them. Maybe they cant win? We go on to vilify all politicians, but do we simply get the politicians we deserve?

One of the many failings of politicians especially ministers is that they never apologise for anything.
They just don't get it that they would get a bit more respect from the public if they did.
The downside is that, to the opposition see it as a weakness and slaughter them.
Soundbites is the other the constant repeating of them is pathetic.
Oven ready my arse.

 

[beorhthelm]

Thank f**k someone’s finally asking questions about taxation, with real knowledge.

The Scandinavians fund their welfare system from everyone. The Labour manifesto purports to do the same by just taxing those over £80k and companies more. The sums don’t add up. Hence the in the small print attack on anyone who owns shares, or runs a tiny limited company.

they are chasing pensioners and investors, not only those earning over £80k, if Corbyn things that he doesnt understand his own manifesto. thing is the grey book even notes "behaviour changes", acknowledging that taxes will result in the income/asset base being taxed moving. yet Corbyn and the left will say it wont. and that impacts on the other tax revenue streams, not accounted for.

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

JC - We will pay the £60B for the ladies pensions from government reserves. AN - Do we have £60B in reserves. JC - No.