[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Weststander]

Care to show your working before making this wild accusation? Or are you just pulling it out of your arse? I suspect the later.

You clearly lack financial literacy. This was all covered in this thread on the day of the Labour Manifesto launch. Go back and look. A small limited company business owner making a profit of £50k which he draws out after corporation tax, will pay almost £5k more in corporation tax and income tax each year. A husband and wife owning a company making say twice that, will be down by £10k. Affecting 2 million companies and families/individuals. The tax changes were picked up from the manifesto, then used in real scenarios.

Sorry if you find figures taxing

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I'm no fan of Jeremy Corbyn (ask [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION]) but I thought he handled Andrew Neil's questions or should be interruptions very well. If Neil hadn't tried to get in too many 'gotcha' moments instead of actually asking questions and listening to the answers it might have been better

There weren't to many answers was there ? Came across as completely lacking any authority , must have walked away from that believing he's the next PM
Regards
DF

 

[beorhthelm]

You clearly lack financial literacy. This was all covered in this thread on the day of the Labour Manifesto launch. Go back and look. A small limited company business owner making a profit of £50k which he draws out after corporation tax, will pay almost £5k more in corporation tax and income tax each year. A husband and wife owning a company making say twice that, will be down by £10k. Affecting 2 million companies and families/individuals. The tax changes were picked up from the manifesto, then used in real scenarios.

Sorry if you find figures taxing

you're overlooking the removal of CGT allowance, buried in the grey book, which will impact pensioner and small investors greatly.

 

[Weststander]

And how realistic are those scenarios? How many people do those two scenarios apply to? Or have you just picked some bizare examples as you clutch wildly at straws?

Also, and more to the point, you have not answered my original question: can you show your working to your claim that labour can not afford all the things it says? You still have not done that.

Sorry of you find answering questions taxing.

Yep, you come back without facts, no figures, just waffle.

Here are some more facts for you. Labour say they will raise £9B from taxing company shareholders. Yet those shareholders aren’t mentioned in the wealthy 5% Labour state will only be hit by their tax rises. Andrew Neil had time to mention the dividends issue tonight.

Those examples are widespread in the real world, there are many small company owners on NSC who will be hit. A fact you’ll definitely struggle with is that all profitable company owners will be hit, it’s a spectrum. Whether their post CT profits be £2k, £10k, £50k, £100k.

I look forward to reading your own hard facts and figures on Labour’s tax plans for small business owners .

As for the macro economic assessment, please refer to the IFS report.

 

[dazzer6666]

And how realistic are those scenarios? How many people do those two scenarios apply to? Or have you just picked some bizare examples as you clutch wildly at straws?

Also, and more to the point, you have not answered my original question: can you show your working to your claim that labour can not afford all the things it says? You still have not done that.

Sorry of you find answering questions taxing.

A small company, possibly employing the owner’s spouse and making 50k a year profit is a ‘bizarre example’ ? Looks about bang average for a small business (limited company) in the UK I would say. It’s certainly not unrealistic........

 

[Chicken Run]

Nice speech on the evils of anti-semitism, none of which I disagree with.

However, back to the point of my post, You can't show any evidence of any Labour front bencher saying or doing anything anti-semitic to back up your claim that 'the Labour front bench is full of anti-semites'

Plenty of other posters have given examples, it's just that you don't seem to be able to find any to quote

And here is 'Corbyn's defence of a 'cartoon' typical of those published by the Nazis'

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5885339/jeremy-corbyn-fury-anti-semitic-art/amp/

“In 2012 I made a general comment about the removal of public art on grounds of freedom of speech. My comment referred to the destruction of the mural Man At The Crossroads by Diego Rivera on the Rockefeller Center.

“That is in no way comparable with the mural in the original post. I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic.

“I wholeheartedly support its removal. I am opposed to the production of anti-Semitic material of any kind, and the defence of free speech cannot be used as a justification for the promotion of anti-Semitism. That is a view I’ve always held.”

Well it's obvious from that he's completely anti-semitic

Amazing all these years later now that he’s got the top job he describes his comment when he was a back bencher as “general”.

I’d suggest he meant every word he said back then and now it’s come back to haunt him as Potential PM.

 

[Chicken Run]

JC - We will pay the £60B for the ladies pensions from government reserves. AN - Do we have £60B in reserves. JC - No.

Surely it didn’t play out like that ffs?

 

[Weststander]

Again, you have NOT answered the question: can you show your working to explain how labour can not afford their pledges?
If you keep just giving random tax "facts" I will assume you can not answer the question. This is the THIRD time you have been asked.

I’m having to do your research for you now, what can you do?

1. Freezing state pension age at 66 will add £24B each year over time to government spending, this is not costed in Corbyn’s figures. This would be on top of the dramatic, £38 billion per year, increase in spending on state pensions projected even with the planned increase in the SPA to 69.

2. In the short run, the increase in the rate of corporation tax might bring in the £20 billion Labour says. In the long run it would bring in less, as a less competitive rate would reduce investment, and therefore productivity and wages, in the UK.

3. Several issues remain unclear, including what will happen to outstanding student debt, which Labour has suggested it would “deal with”. Writing off all student debt would cost around £70bn. Even if only tuition fee debt of post-2012 cohorts were written off, this would cost around £20bn.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw34lktZCKos7VppQnkvDfK7 read all about it here and make your own minds up about JC, saying that I dont agree with Israel's treatment of Palestinians
Regards
DF

 

[dazzer6666]

Surely it didn’t play out like that ffs?

Pretty much....watch and learn....


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/elect...election-2019-corbyn-on-paying-waspi-pensions

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

I too have spent loads of time in Sweden, close mates live there. Yep, still incredibly expensive.

Apparently, the bottom line is that Swedes, Danes and Finns trust their governments to spend their high taxes wisely. Not so in the UK where there’s always been mistrust in politicians.

We could all shirley pay more in income tax on a not immodest rate increase?

I totally agree, I hate the way this country has gone on so many fronts, in a perfect world I would like us to sweep the board clean and start all over again, starting with taxes.
We don't seem to have got anywhere over the past 25 years, everyone someone gets power they change everything even if it was good and working.
For example Education changes every time, Gove was a bellend, those poor kids and teachers don't know if they are coming or going, surely that with education the country should have had a cross party concensus on what is best, fund it properly and stick to it and improve it, the innocent kids only get the one shot at it.
Sorry, I'm off on one there, in Scandinavia they seem to have a brilliant education system (without homework) the kids are bright, smart and happy.
People in Sweden seemed so content, intelligent, polite and generous, the streets were spotless and the politicians seem to do the sensible thing and what is best for Sweden and the people and in return they love their country.
What a contrast to our country.
Why can't we say we are sick of this, let's copy a better way and change.

 

[Weststander]

No, you are not doing my research for me. I am simply asking you to back up your wild out of thin air claim.
You have mentioned a few things, but only vaguely. For example in point 2: you claim over time it would be less than 20billion. How much less? How will this scale with time?
How about you just admit you have no idea if labour can afford the things they say? You have had THREE attempts to answer that question and have FAILED massively.

That’s from the IFS, not me. Know one knows the future, but as the IFS has always pointed out on all such issues (that was their comment), tax take decreases due to behavioural changes from large tax rate rises, plus multinationals can choose where they invest. Naturally that decreases in unfavourable tax regimes.

For further information:
mailbox@ifs.org.uk

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I totally agree, I hate the way this country has gone on so many fronts, in a perfect world I would like us to sweep the board clean and start all over again, starting with taxes.
We don't seem to have got anywhere over the past 25 years, everyone someone gets power they change everything even if it was good and working.
For example Education changes every time, Gove was a bellend, those poor kids and teachers don't know if they are coming or going, surely that with education the country should have had a cross party concensus on what is best, fund it properly and stick to it and improve it, the innocent kids only get the one shot at it.
Sorry, I'm off on one there, in Scandinavia they seem to have a brilliant education system (without homework) the kids are bright, smart and happy.
People in Sweden seemed so content, intelligent, polite and generous, the streets were spotless and the politicians seem to do the sensible thing and what is best for Sweden and the people and in return they love their country.
What a contrast to our country.
Why can't we say we are sick of this, let's copy a better way and change.

A lot of People in Sweden are unhappy with uncontrolled immigration which I'm sure you're aware of, its always best to paint a rosy picture though
Regards
DF

 

[Weststander]

I totally agree, I hate the way this country has gone on so many fronts, in a perfect world I would like us to sweep the board clean and start all over again, starting with taxes.
We don't seem to have got anywhere over the past 25 years, everyone someone gets power they change everything even if it was good and working.
For example Education changes every time, Gove was a bellend, those poor kids and teachers don't know if they are coming or going, surely that with education the country should have had a cross party concensus on what is best, fund it properly and stick to it and improve it, the innocent kids only get the one shot at it.
Sorry, I'm off on one there, in Scandinavia they seem to have a brilliant education system (without homework) the kids are bright, smart and happy.
People in Sweden seemed so content, intelligent, polite and generous, the streets were spotless and the politicians seem to do the sensible thing and what is best for Sweden and the people and in return they love their country.
What a contrast to our country.
Why can't we say we are sick of this, let's copy a better way and change.

The only issue they have and it’s growing is racism. In the Swedish school, where our friends kids go, almost all the 10 and 13 year olds hated blacks and muslims. Apparently there’s real resentment against Stockholm for quietly pushing all the refugees and immigrants into the urban communities away from Stockholm.

I loved the country in so many ways.

 

[Sirnormangall]

No, you are not doing my research for me. I am simply asking you to back up your wild out of thin air claim.
You have mentioned a few things, but only vaguely. For example in point 2: you claim over time it would be less than 20billion. How much less? How will this scale with time?
How about you just admit you have no idea if labour can afford the things they say? You have had THREE attempts to answer that question and have FAILED massively.

I can freely admit that I have no idea if Labour can afford their plans - I remain to be convinced and that’s probably why I won’t vote for them ( amongst other things).

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

That’s from the IFS, not me. Know one knows the future, but as the IFS has always pointed out on all such issues (that was their comment), tax take decreases due to behavioural changes from large tax rate rises, plus multinationals can choose where they invest. Naturally that decreases in unfavourable tax regimes.

For further information:
mailbox@ifs.org.uk

It appears that certain posters believe in economic forecasts if they are about Brexit but disbelieve them if they are about Labour Party spending. Seems you are being shot as the messenger.

 

[Weststander]

LOL. Ok so you have admitted you can not back up your wild claim. Thank you.

I’m never afraid to look to experts and openly admit it. I reference the IFS throughout this thread.

Having an inside knowledge of tax system also helps, as well as helping countless ordinary folk in their business and tax affairs over a long time.

 

[Weststander]

It appears that certain posters believe in economic forecasts if they are about Brexit but disbelieve them if they are about Labour Party spending. Seems you are being shot as the messenger.

I’m not bothered by one or two controversial types looking to disrupt. There are many intelligent and knowledgeable posters on NSC, from the left, right or centre, who are good to listen to.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

The only issue they have and it’s growing is racism. In the Swedish school, where our friends kids go, almost all the 10 and 13 year olds hated blacks and muslims. Apparently there’s real resentment against Stockholm for quietly pushing all the refugees and immigrants into the urban communities away from Stockholm.

I loved the country in so many ways.

Yes I hear this too.
Sweden has allowed a lot of immigration and that will upset a certain percentage of the population.
But that is typical Sweden to do this, to take in people who are desperate and need help and the people of Sweden are generally tolerant because they are nice, gentle people.
Trust PPF to come in with his usual immigration crap without knowing anything about it in a foreign country just to stir things up.
It's pond life like him that make this country a depressing place to live at the moment.

 

[Sirnormangall]

But can admit other parties can afford theirs? If you can not prove it then are you just going on one persons word against another's?

Yes I am also willing to admit that I don’t know if other parties can afford theirs. I can’t prove the affordability of any of their plans any more than you can.