[Politics] The General Election Thread

[JC Footy Genius]

And while I'm here:

General election: Labour cuts Conservatives' poll lead to eight points

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...es-gap-vote-poll-corbyn-johnson-a9205616.html

Opinium - Conservative poll lead 16 points

YouGov - Conservative poll lead 17 points

Deltapoll - Conservative poll lead 15 points

http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

 

[lawros left foot]

On the subject of unrealistic election promises, what do the panel think of the Conservative policy of reversing the Beeching rail cuts?
£500 million will be set aside for this, according to experts, enough to build 25 miles of new track, but unfortunately, no stations.

 

[Ernest]

On the subject of unrealistic election promises, what do the panel think of the Conservative policy of reversing the Beeching rail cuts?
£500 million will be set aside for this, according to experts, enough to build 25 miles of new track, but unfortunately, no stations.

Those pesky facts again

 

[BLOCK F]

Sorry for the delay in responding, I had a busy day yesterday because of the lack of football

In your reply to [MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION] you talked of him being somewhat sheltered from the financial lunacy of the left, being a Uni lecturer with a secure pension, and yourself being rather more exposed, so I assumed that you don't see yourself in such a sheltered or advantageous position.

All economic predictions for Brexit have the UK economy taking an almighty hit, from a customs union through to the full 'no deal'. The predicted impact on the economy really makes the spending plans of all parties pale into insignificance (which are pure guesswork as nobody has released a manifesto yet ). The simple fact is that every party of whatever colour needs a healthy economy to implement their political aims.

There is no doubt that a conservative majority will mean that Johnson will go for the harder end of the Brexit scale and this (together with tax cuts for high earners and businesses) means that that vast majority at the lower end economically will suffer badly, exactly the same way as in the last 10 years of Austerity. (Even when we were 'all in it together' !).

Now, even with the smallest of majorities and the softest of Brexits, the numbers who will gain, will be a very small as a proportion of the country. Certainly not a big enough proportion to ensure a University lecturer with a secure pension would gain from Johnson in power.

Therefor, Johnson, JRM and Cummings are completely dependant on people who are not so well off voting to make themselves poorer, something they have been very successful with up to now.

(And a Jaguar XJ is much nicer when it's raining )

Hi, Thanks for your reply.
In response, I have to say that I have never considered myself to be 'not so well off', so perhaps your original reply of me sounding like the type of voter Johnson, JRM and Cummins are (targetting) putting at the top of the agenda was a bit wide of the mark! The point I was making was concerning those with pensions and funds reliant on the fortunes of the stockmarket, which is an awful lot of the population.
I voted Remain, but I accept the decision of the referendum and want to see the Brexit deal through.
Yes, whatever party gains power needs a healthy economy to implement their political aims, but my fear and that of many political and economic observers is that the Labour Party's proposals will have a serious effect on the economy of this country( I know we haven't seen the manifestos!) and, as is usual, it will probably be the less well off who will eventually suffer most.
I am not convinced that there will be tax cuts for higher earners and business in any Tory plans and to be honest, I think tax cuts for higher earners at the moment, would be a huge mistake. Business tax is more complicated and there may be some adjustments and tweaks, but I can't see wholesale tax cuts( again, we haven't seen the manifesto).
To sum up, what I would like to see, is a Tory majority so that we can begin to start the process of dealing with Brexit, and although I am no great fan of Boris Johnson, I don't believe a Government led by him would do the damage to the economy that a far left Government led by Corbyn and McDonnell would. The added benefit of a Tory majority would be that Corbyn et al would almost certainly have to stand down and the Labour Party could start to rebuild and once again become a party that would be electable and provide the Opposition that the country deserves.
I wonder how many moderate Labour MPs want to retain their own seats, but want their party to lose the election. Quite a few I would imagine.
P.S.The XJ is lovely, just like the one Corbyn could ride in if he was PM, but then again, he may consider it too elitist!

 

[Hampster Gull]

The American Election II.

2 unelectable candidates go head to head.

We have a third choice

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

This post stood out for me :

View attachment 117226

It’s desperation.

He knows he’s gone after this election unless he wins - so May as well promise the world as a final push.

Problem is, people see through it.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

[tweet]1195611042715447297[/tweet]

I am not sure how this is the fault of the Tories?

It’s privately owned?

 

[Stat Brother]

It’s privately owned?

hmmmmm

 

[WATFORD zero]

Hi, Thanks for your reply.
In response, I have to say that I have never considered myself to be 'not so well off', so perhaps your original reply of me sounding like the type of voter Johnson, JRM and Cummins are (targetting) putting at the top of the agenda was a bit wide of the mark! The point I was making was concerning those with pensions and funds reliant on the fortunes of the stockmarket, which is an awful lot of the population.
I voted Remain, but I accept the decision of the referendum and want to see the Brexit deal through.
Yes, whatever party gains power needs a healthy economy to implement their political aims, but my fear and that of many political and economic observers is that the Labour Party's proposals will have a serious effect on the economy of this country( I know we haven't seen the manifestos!) and, as is usual, it will probably be the less well off who will eventually suffer most.
I am not convinced that there will be tax cuts for higher earners and business in any Tory plans and to be honest, I think tax cuts for higher earners at the moment, would be a huge mistake. Business tax is more complicated and there may be some adjustments and tweaks, but I can't see wholesale tax cuts( again, we haven't seen the manifesto).
To sum up, what I would like to see, is a Tory majority so that we can begin to start the process of dealing with Brexit, and although I am no great fan of Boris Johnson, I don't believe a Government led by him would do the damage to the economy that a far left Government led by Corbyn and McDonnell would. The added benefit of Tory majority would be that Corbyn et al would almost certainly have to stand down and the Labour Party could start to rebuild and once again become a party that would be electable and provide the Opposition that that the country deserves.
I wonder how many moderate Labour MPs want to retain their own seats, but want their party to lose the election. Quite a few I would imagine.
P.S.The XJ is lovely, just like the one Corbyn could ride in if he was PM, but then again, he may consider it too elitist!

I really don't think that any Government's handling of the economy will have anything like the impact of Brexit. Even some sort of 'deal' along Johnson's line is going to take at least the next 5-10 years to sort out, and that is without renegotiating all the other trade deals that we give up when we leave the EU. The economy is going to continue to be throttled all this time, while extension after extension are negotiated (for which there is no basis, financial or otherwise in Johnson's proposal. One of the many reasons he pulled it before it could be properly scrutinised. The £36B we negotiated only covers us until the end of 2020, beyond that everything is open to start renegotiations all over again).

You just have to look at how long Canada's far simpler deal, with no service element has taken and that still isn't fully implemented.

But of course, Johnson says we won't need further extensions (but there again he also said we would be out by Oct 31st) .

I know the line that Johnson uses 'we start from a point of having the same regulations and rules making it a simpler deal' but the whole point of this whole clusterf*** is to negotiate a deal that will allow us to diverge

Once you then allow for renegotiating all the other deals that we are giving up, we aren't going to see the end of this before the second half of 2030-40. I'm pretty certain that if Johnson gets a majority, I won't still be around to see him or anyone else 'Get Brexit done', and I can't see any turning back once he gets his majority.

The only other way out is with a second referendum, which will not happen if Johnson gets a majority.

I think we'll have to agree that we aren't going to agree on this, so I'll leave you with a



And unless you're in a position to splash out 6 figures on one of these (and build the air conditioned garage) for weekends, I don't think you'll benefit under Johnson, JRM and Cummings. Mrs Wz has told me I'm not

 

[Bodian]

Opinium - Conservative poll lead 16 points

YouGov - Conservative poll lead 17 points

Deltapoll - Conservative poll lead 15 points

http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

I find it quite astonishing that in the last week Labour put out generally popular plans, whilst the Tories lurch from one PR disaster to another - yet the gap actually widens. What would Johnson & Co actually have to do to lose support?

 

[Arkwright]

I don't really understand politics but the thing I really don't understand is for all parties where is the money coming from to match the policies. I suppose Tories can claim savings on EU payments but we'll still have to pay the exit bill.
After years of austerity everyone is now throwing the kitchen sink at getting votes. Maybe I'm just an old fashioned sort of bloke but I was always told if you can't afford it don't buy it, are any of the parties trying to balance the books or are we just looking at increasing debt.
For the record I have spoilt in the last two elections, not that it makes a difference as East Surrey is a safe Tory seat, despite currently having Sam Gyimah as our MP batting for the Liberals.

 

[Bozza]

I find it quite astonishing that in the last week Labour put out generally popular plans, whilst the Tories lurch from one PR disaster to another - yet the gap actually widens. What would Johnson & Co actually have to do to lose support?

They'd need Labour to appoint a leader worthy of the name.

 

[BLOCK F]

That's correct.

I have to say that although my pension is, on paper, secure, it is secure only until it ceases to be so. The changes triggered by the 'shortfall' mean that my younger colleagues have lost 40% of the value of their pensions in the last 5 years.

Let's not forget that 'shortfall' is a symptom of the economy not working. My pension has been exhibiting shortfall for the entire time to rories have been in power. Despite years of austerity, they have failed to fix the economy. I am not confident my pension will end up what it should be.

Moreover I am somewhat surprised that F implies that I am prepared to support Corbyn, knowing that he will ruin the economy for the young, safe in the warm glow of my pension pot.

This election is not about how bad Corbyn might be. It is about how bad Boris is. We can see what he's like - because he's in charge now.

Going back to the austerity and economic mismanagement by 10 years' of tory government, everyone from Hitler through Roosevelt to MacMillan recognised that massive public spending is the only way out of a slump and decline like we have had. Giving tax cuts for white van man and school run mum won't turn round the economy.

Boris is the biggest and most corrupt old fraud of a leader this nation has seen since Lloyd George. Fancy getting caught out trying to flog honours to chums of Farrage (on the radio right now). And fancy nailing yourself to a Brexit mast simply because you calculate that a greater proportion of the folk likely to vote leave are likely to still feel strongly about this than the proportion of those who voted remain (and it took him till the eleventh hour to make up his mind which side had the most support - if that isn't a disgrace I don't know what is).

So, anyone favouring this utter charalatan over labour, disregarding his contempt for other people, his own wives, his own colleagues and, of course, the electorate, prepared to run with any lie till he's caught out, then run with another lie, smirking about it.....wake and smell the coffee people.

Corbyn may accidentally **** us all over. Voting for that has to be preferable to voting for someone who is quite happy to **** us all over, so long as he can swank about like lord Fauntleroy, grazing on doe-eyed totty, spilling his wine on the sofa and sniggering with his dodgy pals.

Hi Harry,
A lot of licence taken there, if I may say so.
Still, your prose flowed well and almost had me weeping.
You are right, this election isn't about how bad Corbyn might be, it is about how bad Corbyn is now.
Even if Johnson is as demonic as you believe and the Tories are completely incompetent, at this very moment, he is seen to be the lesser of two evils, if you like.
As far as I am aware, no political leader, going into a G.E. has ever had such a low approval rating as Corbyn. You know why.
It is an appalling tragedy that a useless person like Corbyn was elected as leader of the Labour Party and the lunatics took over the asylum.
The anti Tory brigade can shout and holler as much as they like about Johnson, but the fact remains that for whatever reason, a perfectly decent Labour Party was hijacked by far left activists, much to the horror of moderates, including the likes of me, at heart a Tory voter. Let us hope those moderates can muster the balls to try and put their house in order and once again be a party that many ordinary people can identify with and vote for!

 

[Stat Brother]

Vote for me - even though I can't even tell the time:-

[tweet]1195251896694517760[/tweet]

 

[Lower West Stander]

That's amusing. Now you're voting for the party with the most extreme views concerning the implementation of the nation's decision at the referendum.

Yep - I'm pissing myself with laughter about it because its so funny.....

 

[Lower West Stander]

I find it quite astonishing that in the last week Labour put out generally popular plans, whilst the Tories lurch from one PR disaster to another - yet the gap actually widens. What would Johnson & Co actually have to do to lose support?

For that to happen, Labour would need a credible leader with credible policies....

I'm not sure you could describe a £300bn nationalisation plan as a generally popular plan amongst the electorate.

 

[mikeyjh]

I find it quite astonishing that in the last week Labour put out generally popular plans, whilst the Tories lurch from one PR disaster to another - yet the gap actually widens. What would Johnson & Co actually have to do to lose support?

Well, losing some of the overwhelming support of the MSM would be a rather good start but we know that's not going to happen....

 

[Hampster Gull]

Vote for me - even though I can't even tell the time:-

[tweet]1195251896694517760[/tweet]

Good to see the Tory party reflecting multi cultural U.K. 2019

 

[Baldseagull]

I find it quite astonishing that in the last week Labour put out generally popular plans, whilst the Tories lurch from one PR disaster to another - yet the gap actually widens. What would Johnson & Co actually have to do to lose support?

They would have to fall out with Rupert Murdoch.

 

[Chicken Run]

Good to see the Tory party reflecting multi cultural U.K. 2019

Agreed, nearly as bad as those remain protesters....