[Politics] The General Election Thread

[BLOCK F]

I agree with the first highlight.

Unfortunately (second highlight) this is not relevant all the while Corbyn decides to stay put if my understanding of the labour process* is correct. The membership have a big proportion of the vote, and as we saw before, if Corbyn is on the slate he will be re-elected by the members. To get on the slate you need to be a challenged incumbent or (if the leader resigns) an MP with 50 MP sponsors. So hoping Corbyn will be replaced anytime soon is beyond consideration right now.

I don't like Corbyn. I have emoted about it repeatedly. Not because of the IRA thing but because he has been so ponderous over key issues: Brexit and Anti-semitism; and because, frankly, I can't warm to him. I find Boris' easy charm more appealing. But that's becuase like so many, I am taken in by charming conscience-free psychopaths. So I can't let my gut feeling rule....

That's why, reluctantly, my higher cognitive functions are reminding me, when I falter, to back the more honest man (and here the less honest man is a free-and-easy serial liar - there is no contest). I really dislike serial liars, egregious fact benders, and politicians happy to break any rule to get their way. And when their way is actually a goal they have selected to suit their own gain and nothing more.....words are needless.

*I urged people to vote against Corbyn on here last time - hoping a thrashing would prompt a resignation, and the labour process, MP-led at the start, would preclude another old labour missfit onto the slate. Sadly momentum still think they 'won' the last general election. And.....times have now changed. I'd back liberal if I thought this would help, but nationally, and in my constituency, it won't.

Anyway, I understand how you might consider Boris the lesser of two evils, and maybe he will end up doing little harm. Only time will tell. All the best from darkest Faversham

ps I hate the term 'ordinary' people. A labour bloke kept using the expression on the radio this morning. I think many of us will agree, we are not effing ordinary. We do our bit, for our families and society. That's not ordinary. We are not all bottom feeders and cud chewers. Our lives matter.

Hi Harry,
Yes, I take your point re the Labour process, but being an optimist, I reckon, if the Tories get a majority, then Corbyn will go and hopefully McDonnell with him. Trouble, is as you say, the 'membership' have a large say and another budding far left candidate may well be voted in. However, it would be a start and MAY provoke a rethink amongst all but the real hardliners. Actually, I have no idea who would or could be put forward as a moderate . Keir Starmer obviously has a good brain, but beyond his Brexit views, does anyone know what he believes in? I don't. I am impressed by Rachel Reeves though.
No, we may not be ordinary as individuals, but collectively, it ain't that bad.............and better than the likes of Plooks and MoS refer to some of us!

 

[Guinness Boy]

The Guardian hates Corbyn

*some of The Guardian. Owen Jones loves him and they're far more likely to be pro Corbyn than pro Johnson.

 

[Bozza]

The Guardian hates Corbyn

So do you (or did - who knows?).

 

[narly101]

I think it's easy to see why the right bias in the media is so prevalent. Challenging, intelligent journalism is expensive, and papers need to make money to survive.

 

[nicko31]

Probably a good point to consider the traditional leanings of the mainstream media though. Let's see where the balance lies. For me the papers are split as follows:

The Sun - Murdoch owned and Tory right / Brexit
The Mail - Tory with smatterings of right wing conspiracy theory
The Express - Tory (special target, frightened pensioners who hate snow and immigrants and love Pricess Di, God bless her)
The Times - One Nation Tory (also owned by Rupert)
The Telegraph - Tory. Basically read by the establishment, members of the ERG and people who like cricket reports in the summer. Reportedly being targetted by Steve Bannon who feels it's not right wing enough
Evening Standard - edited by George Osborne and pretty much his mouthpiece
The Guardian - employs Owen Jones but mainly written and read by the educated metropolitan remainers who are more likely to vote Green or Lib Dem. Nevertheless not likely to be nice to Tories and certainly has quite a few pro Labour views (not always pro Corbyn)
The Independent - Much more likely to be left leaning than independant. Speciality = depressing people
The Mirror - The true home of the Corbynista (apart from when they ask him questions about p**n at press conferences)
The Morning Star - slightly to the left of Corbyn but only read by [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION]

Six out and out right wing papers with two broadsheets and one tabloid spread right over the rest of the left / liberal / remain diaspora.

When you add to this the BBC (who I have defended as balanced on here a number of times) employ Tory Kuenssberg as their political editor and Sarah Sands (former Telegraph writer, Daily Mail "shock Columnist" and friend of Dominic Lawson) as editor of Today and it's pretty hard to see how anyone can say media bias isn't a thing.

Most our print media is pretty much a right wing grooming gang pedaled by non-dom billionaires who clearly have their own agenda when it comes to the UK.

Whilst print media is dying they still have a lot of influence especially older folk who can be particularly vulnerable.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Of course the Express is biased crap. As is the Mail. But then the Mirror and Guardian are biased in favour of the left. Surely the point is that not all the press is biased in the same direction.

Whilst your general point is valid, the particular Express example highlighted, is beyond 'bias'. Whatever way you look at it, it is straight up industrial scale misinformation.

You'd expect, as you suggest, a right leaning paper to be supportive of a Tory policy, and you might expect them to be critical of a Labour policy. But to come out this strongly, in each direction, when commentating on the very SAME* policy, is entirely indefensible.

(* they are not QUITE the same, actually. The positive Tory story suggests a £10.50 minimum wage, as opposed to the £10.00 Labour one that will wreck the economy...)

 

[WATFORD zero]

Whilst your general point is valid, the particular Express example highlighted, is beyond 'bias'. Whatever way you look at it, it is straight up industrial scale misinformation.

You'd expect, as you suggest, a right leaning paper to be supportive of a Tory policy, and you might expect them to be critical of a Labour policy. But to come out this strongly, in each direction, when commentating on the very SAME* policy, is entirely indefensible.

(* they are not QUITE the same, actually. The positive Tory story suggests a £10.50 minimum wage, as opposed to the £10.00 Labour one that will wreck the economy...)

I do think the level of lies and misinformation at this election (and building over the last couple of years) has reached a whole new level never previously seen.

It's almost as if out and out lying is now seen as a perfectly valid way to get to the top. Wonder how that happened

 

[theonlymikey]

*some of The Guardian. Owen Jones loves him and they're far more likely to be pro Corbyn than pro Johnson.

Owen is pro Labour policies, not necessarily pro Corbyn.

The public would do well to remember this is not a presidential campaign and not inflict self harm over one man.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

.

The public would do well to remember this is not a presidential campaign and not inflict self harm over one man.

Absolutely no chance, I'm afraid.

None whatsoever.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Owen is pro Labour policies, not necessarily pro Corbyn.

The public would do well to remember this is not a presidential campaign and not inflict self harm over one man.

It's a shame that this thread is so huge or you would have seen me post early on that I am going to vote for Peter Kyle because I believe he's the best person to represent me in the HoC for the next parliamentary term. I don't like Corbyn though.

If this *was* a presidential election then I would be abstaining. I believe that those that fought and died for our right to vote also did it for our right to abstain. If I was offered a bowl of cat sick and a plate of dog poo to eat I'd go hungry., Corbyn v Johnson is the same choice.

 

[nicko31]

I do think the level of lies and misinformation at this election (and building over the last couple of years) has reached a whole new level never previously seen.

It's almost as if out and out lying is now seen as a perfectly valid way to get to the top. Wonder how that happened

There was a time when a major lie in politics would basically sink your political career, but those days are over, we only had to look at Rory Stewart during the Tory leadership contest. You tell the truth but it doesn't pay

It is now obvious what is left of the Tories have completely lost their moral compass, they are endorsed by Farage, Robinson, Trump (and I'm sure Putin won't be unhappy if they secure a majority). Just down the British public now, will they be had one last final time?

 

[theonlymikey]

It's a shame that this thread is so huge or you would have seen me post early on that I am going to vote for Peter Kyle because I believe he's the best person to represent me in the HoC for the next parliamentary term. I don't like Corbyn though.

If this *was* a presidential election then I would be abstaining. I believe that those that fought and died for our right to vote also did it for our right to abstain. If I was offered a bowl of cat sick and a plate of dog poo to eat I'd go hungry., Corbyn v Johnson is the same choice.

I recall this.

It's sad people don't know the difference between US and UK politics.

 

[Bozza]

It's a shame that this thread is so huge or you would have seen me post early on that I am going to vote for Peter Kyle because I believe he's the best person to represent me in the HoC for the next parliamentary term. I don't like Corbyn though.

If this *was* a presidential election then I would be abstaining. I believe that those that fought and died for our right to vote also did it for our right to abstain. If I was offered a bowl of cat sick and a plate of dog poo to eat I'd go hungry., Corbyn v Johnson is the same choice.

I'm going to do the same.

Sophie Cook ran for Labour in 2017 and got remarkably close to Tim Loughton. I see she has left Labour now due to the bullying she received inside the party, and will run as an independent. I wonder what impact that could have on the Labour vote - it surely can't help their chances.

 

[Lever]

There was a time when a major lie in politics would basically sink your political career, but those days are over, we only had to look at Rory Stewart during the Tory leadership contest. You tell the truth but it doesn't pay

It is now obvious what is left of the Tories have completely lost their moral compass, they are endorsed by Farage, Robinson, Trump (and I'm sure Putin won't be unhappy if they secure a majority). Just down the British public now, will they be had one last final time?

All true..... unfortunately.

 

[Hastings gull]

For all our differences on here, it really is sad to see the likes of Plooks and Man of Sussex resort to the C word , when referring to people they disagree with and have never met.

Totally unneccessary and says rather more about themselves than the people they consider to be C's.

Exactly. It is all part of the general pattern of hypocrisy. Because they are so self-righteous in their world, they think the odd misdemeanour is OK for them, as they are so nice, and say such nice things - until someone challenges them and then the real person emerges.

 

[Arkwright]

Not making payments to the EU isn't going to boost our budget due to the hit the economy is going to take.

Re. debt. A national economy isn't managed like your household budget. No government is going to eliminate debt.

With all these pledges no one is going to reduce the countries debt, what is an acceptable level of debt / borrowing to income? After years of austerity have the country reduced our level of debt just to go back to the dark days of boom bust. I just don't get it and they are all as bad as each other.

 

[Bozza]

I'm going to do the same.

Sophie Cook ran for Labour in 2017 and got remarkably close to Tim Loughton. I see she has left Labour now due to the bullying she received inside the party, and will run as an independent. I wonder what impact that could have on the Labour vote - it surely can't help their chances.

Edit: just reading some more, she wasn't selected to run in the constituency despite previously receiving an award for being the party's "candidate of the year", so it seems she left the party after missing out on being able to run again.

Seems there's quite a back-story to it: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-hustings-after-row-over-reinstated-candidate

 

[Bozza]

Electoral Calculus now suggesting a 70-seat Tory majority...

 

[Bakero]

With all these pledges no one is going to reduce the countries debt, what is an acceptable level of debt / borrowing to income? After years of austerity have the country reduced our level of debt just to go back to the dark days of boom bust. I just don't get it and they are all as bad as each other.

Reduced?



I've heard it said that for a developed country a debt to GDP ratio of 60% is OK, 40% for a developing country.

 

[Two Professors]

Probably a good point to consider the traditional leanings of the mainstream media though. Let's see where the balance lies. For me the papers are split as follows:

The Sun - Murdoch owned and Tory right / Brexit
The Mail - Tory with smatterings of right wing conspiracy theory
The Express - Tory (special target, frightened pensioners who hate snow and immigrants and love Pricess Di, God bless her)
The Times - One Nation Tory (also owned by Rupert)
The Telegraph - Tory. Basically read by the establishment, members of the ERG and people who like cricket reports in the summer. Reportedly being targetted by Steve Bannon who feels it's not right wing enough
Evening Standard - edited by George Osborne and pretty much his mouthpiece
The Guardian - employs Owen Jones but mainly written and read by the educated metropolitan remainers who are more likely to vote Green or Lib Dem. Nevertheless not likely to be nice to Tories and certainly has quite a few pro Labour views (not always pro Corbyn)
The Independent - Much more likely to be left leaning than independant. Speciality = depressing people
The Mirror - The true home of the Corbynista (apart from when they ask him questions about p**n at press conferences)
The Morning Star - slightly to the left of Corbyn but only read by [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION]

Six out and out right wing papers with two broadsheets and one tabloid spread right over the rest of the left / liberal / remain diaspora.

When you add to this the BBC (who I have defended as balanced on here a number of times) employ Tory Kuenssberg as their political editor and Sarah Sands (former Telegraph writer, Daily Mail "shock Columnist" and friend of Dominic Lawson) as editor of Today and it's pretty hard to see how anyone can say media bias isn't a thing.

Perhaps the Labour party might produce another electable leader.